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Topic: [ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers - page 1391. (Read 3074324 times)

legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000
Antifragile
Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.

Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.

It won't make too much sense to dump Lisk to buy DAO. DAO is very expensive now and will become more expensive every day. The marketcap is very high ($162 Mio) and even if it's a very interesting and innovative idea, it's safe to say: There will be problems. Why? There is a conflict of interest in the concept.

Imagine you have a lot of DAO and most DAO-holders also have a lot of ETH. There is a proposal you believe would be a good decision, but you know: If you a majority would vote for it, DAO will invest and that means: sell. DAO will sell ETH or will give ETH to a project to invest in it. That means it will lose Marketcap until there is a return. ETH will most likely also go down because ppl will anticipate sell pressure if a proposal goes through. How many will vote for a longterm-decision that still involves a lot of risk and take the loss in short-term because DAO needs to sell?
 
And why should DAO be worth more on the exchange than the money it has? Because they will make a lot of money?

Let's say they start with $180 Mio and DAO invests in a project, like slock.it or whatever. And let's say DAO invests $10 Mio. How much time will it take to make profit? And will there be profit? And even if, will it be that much profit to justify prices above a current marketcap?

The question in DAO is: Who will definitely benefit? Those who will get money from DAO. That's safe. Nothing else is safe.

Plus: Why should I give my money to an "institution" in which a majority will decide - or those with the biggest voting power? I like it more to make my own research, my own analysis and my own decisions. I don't trust a majority and I don't trust groups with a lot of power. And like I said above: The majority will always have to face a conflict of interest between short-term-loss and possible long-term-profit - which will always involve the risk that there won't be any profit but a loss.

Conclusion: In my opinion DAO is very interesting and will be interesting to watch. There will be much to learn out of it. But out of investor-perspective... I don't understand why so many believe it's a good buy.

I agree it makes no sense to get into the DAO right now (at least via selling LISK). But I'm not sure your conflict of interest holds water.
And let me state I am interested in both the DAO and LISK (and a few other ICO's) and I look forward to LISK having its own DAO as well.

If there is a proposal for a DAO investment that is accepted, why would: 1 - they invest in a project with a far out return that can hurt them? (They would have to manage this.) 2 - they invest in a project that is just going to cash out the ETH? (Look at ETH and BTC both, many of those with lots of "tokens" used those tokens by investing in other companies and those "tokens" were often passed on as such, not necessarily cashed in. This is money after all.
I think you are looking at this from one perspective. You did not take into consideration that the voters of the DAO will HAVE TO consider the points you brought up and if they do and still vote on it, it will have to be for a good reason.

I really think it is a weak argument to primarily look at the first of its kind type of thing in the DAO, purely from a one sided perspective as you did. I'm not saying your arguments have no truth to them as they do, but you only presented that one side and it is clear to anyone who understands this tech, that you just focused on that one side and that distorts the argument of course, as you present it as the data set and not a part of a larger one.

The DAO's value can be worth more than the money it has in it for a variety of reasons. The most obvious would be something along the lines of a PE ratio, which is forward looking. The DAO (or a DAO on LISK too) allows people to crowdfund in an incredible flexible way, removing the normal borders. Another reason would be one of a lack of regulation due to the before mentioned reason (And I would imagine this can of course be a negative as well.)

Nothing here is safe, huge chance but we are talking another Black Swan type thing here. We know not what it can do and all that it can disrupt.

Re. Plus - Invest in what you like, but don't make your personal opinions one of reason for the rest. Crowds generally decide much better than individuals do. You can see this trend across many spaces and I'm not exactly sure why but it is there. But that is your reason right there. Another one would be -  If you are not an institutional investor (i.e. rich) you can't invest in many things. Economic discrimination, I mean protection. lol

I agree with your conclusion though.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
Hyperspace snail
Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.

Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.

It won't make too much sense to dump Lisk to buy DAO. DAO is very expensive now and will become more expensive every day. The marketcap is very high ($162 Mio) and even if it's a very interesting and innovative idea, it's safe to say: There will be problems. Why? There is a conflict of interest in the concept.

Imagine you have a lot of DAO and most DAO-holders also have a lot of ETH. There is a proposal you believe would be a good decision, but you know: If you a majority would vote for it, DAO will invest and that means: sell. DAO will sell ETH or will give ETH to a project to invest in it. That means it will lose Marketcap until there is a return. ETH will most likely also go down because ppl will anticipate sell pressure if a proposal goes through. How many will vote for a longterm-decision that still involves a lot of risk and take the loss in short-term because DAO needs to sell?
 
And why should DAO be worth more on the exchange than the money it has? Because they will make a lot of money?

Let's say they start with $180 Mio and DAO invests in a project, like slock.it or whatever. And let's say DAO invests $10 Mio. How much time will it take to make profit? And will there be profit? And even if, will it be that much profit to justify prices above a current marketcap?

The question in DAO is: Who will definitely benefit? Those who will get money from DAO. That's safe. Nothing else is safe.

Plus: Why should I give my money to an "institution" in which a majority will decide - or those with the biggest voting power? I like it more to make my own research, my own analysis and my own decisions. I don't trust a majority and I don't trust groups with a lot of power. And like I said above: The majority will always have to face a conflict of interest between short-term-loss and possible long-term-profit - which will always involve the risk that there won't be any profit but a loss.

Conclusion: In my opinion DAO is very interesting and will be interesting to watch. There will be much to learn out of it. But out of investor-perspective... I don't understand why so many believe it's a good buy.
Thanks for this quality post. Only a few of them in this thread Wink

very high quality text!
i agree with your opinion!
my englisch in not as good as yours, and it is difficult to write what i know in a professional way
Nothing wrong with your english sir Smiley
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
★ Always strive for the best ★
Will there be a windows client on launch tomorrow?

No, not a simple one. If you have technical knowledge you will be able to use the docker image for windows. The webwallet IS available, so you can freely send you Lisk from there.
hero member
Activity: 1596
Merit: 534
YoBit is 100% ready for Lisk.

Free lisk coins (0.01 lisk) on our FreeCoins page: https://yobit.net/en/freecoins/

Lisk Trade: https://yobit.net/en/trade/LISK/BTC




Wow, a whole BTC5.9 support down to 1sats! Lets hope a big exchange gets involved.

Awesome, im putting my buys in the 100sat range.... looking for that fat finger discount  Cool
full member
Activity: 280
Merit: 100
Lotta fresh activity in this thread for sure!
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
Бля, нy чe зa дeлa co вpeмeнeм лayнчa...нe cepьeзнo. Undecided
legendary
Activity: 1070
Merit: 1021
The DAO has a cap of $180million... correct, but only on paper.

If the DAO even dared selling its ETH, then ETH cap would collapse, in turn collapsing the DAO cap.
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
From Russia with love
Will there be a windows client on launch tomorrow?
legendary
Activity: 1960
Merit: 1128
Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.

Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.
Plus: Why should I give my money to an "institution" in which a majority will decide - or those with the biggest voting power? I like it more to make my own research, my own analysis and my own decisions. I don't trust a majority and I don't trust groups with a lot of power.
While I agree with a lot of what you said, it is conceivable that the DAO will have opportunities to invest in projects that you as an individual do not - people may go direct to the DAO to raise money rather than on bitcointalk, for example.

If this becomes a trend then you may have no choice but to have some funds in the DAO in order to access certain opportunities.  

Yes, right. DAO will be able to invest in projects I couldn't do alone. But I wouldn't buy DAO now because of this possibility. I would only buy it if I believe that there is a proposal that could work out in Longterm.

But the problem is more: DAO has a huge marketcap. The marketcap is also the money DAO will "work" with, try to make more. And if we just think about quantities for now:

If they should start with about $180 Mio...

1. If DAO invests a lot of money, let's say $50 Mio in the first 6 months....

...it's not safe that there will be profit, but it's safe that it will give away this money and lose marketcap. It's also safe that there will be sell-pressure on ETH. It's also safe that people will anticipate that sell-pressure. That means: It would also lose marketcap because of a decreasing ETH-price. And how long will it take to make profit out of $50 Mio? Why should the price of the DAO-token rise in such a scenario?


(btw.: DAO is a great risk for ETH itself on the market!)


2. If DAO invests only little amounts, let's say about $5 Mio in the first 6 months.....

...it's also not safe that there will be profit, but even if, it wouldn't add much to the marketcap and I don't know why that should lead to higher prices of the token.


What we know is: Crypto-Investors are not patient. The majority doesn't make much research and analysis but makes impulsive bets and aims for short-term-profits. A couple of months is already "long-term" in Crypto. And DAO will give away money for a long time and there will be a lot of uncertainty if there will be any return or even profit.

And what I believe is most likely: A lot of proposals will be blocked, won't even reach the minimum of participation. But, if I should see that DAO will invest in a project I really believe in, it will be enough time to invest in it... but not before there is a decision and not right after. It will be about longterm and in the meantime I don't see much reason to believe that the price will stay up or even rise.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1063
YoBit is 100% ready for Lisk.

Free lisk coins (0.01 lisk) on our FreeCoins page: https://yobit.net/en/freecoins/

Lisk Trade: https://yobit.net/en/trade/LISK/BTC




Wow, a whole BTC5.9 support down to 1sats! Lets hope a big exchange gets involved.

What is the max of btc that we can withdrawal on yobit ?



sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
DAO has nowhere to grow, it will never ROI so high as smaller projects with huge potential. Stick with LISK for longterm, and you may get lifestyle changing returns.  Cool

"lifestyle changing returns"  Grin
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.

Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.
Plus: Why should I give my money to an "institution" in which a majority will decide - or those with the biggest voting power? I like it more to make my own research, my own analysis and my own decisions. I don't trust a majority and I don't trust groups with a lot of power.
While I agree with a lot of what you said, it is conceivable that the DAO will have opportunities to invest in projects that you as an individual do not - people may go direct to the DAO to raise money rather than on bitcointalk, for example.

If this becomes a trend then you may have no choice but to have some funds in the DAO in order to access certain opportunities.  

i find that difficult to imagine. the greatest opportunity for maximum funding will still be the public crypto market and not the 'private' DAO market. not knowing the identities of the major DAO whales is going to be a major issue when projects are proposed. there's going to be just so much opportunity for manipulation and, yes, fraud.
legendary
Activity: 1070
Merit: 1021
YoBit is 100% ready for Lisk.

Free lisk coins (0.01 lisk) on our FreeCoins page: https://yobit.net/en/freecoins/

Lisk Trade: https://yobit.net/en/trade/LISK/BTC




Wow, a whole BTC5.9 support down to 1sats! Lets hope a big exchange gets involved.
sr. member
Activity: 326
Merit: 250


You can put all your caffeinated drinks away. There won't be a midnight launch.

I can sleep well now  Shocked
hero member
Activity: 722
Merit: 500


You can put all your caffeinated drinks away. There won't be a midnight launch.
hero member
Activity: 595
Merit: 500
DAO has nowhere to grow, it will never ROI so high as smaller projects with huge potential. Stick with LISK for longterm, and you may get lifestyle changing returns.  Cool
sr. member
Activity: 539
Merit: 265
Hope bittrex so i could sell all and buy DAO ico(130 millions).
I think 90% of lisk holder will dump to buy DAO.

Maybe i will buy later lisk, but priority is DAO now.

It won't make too much sense to dump Lisk to buy DAO. DAO is very expensive now and will become more expensive every day. The marketcap is very high ($162 Mio) and even if it's a very interesting and innovative idea, it's safe to say: There will be problems. Why? There is a conflict of interest in the concept.

Imagine you have a lot of DAO and most DAO-holders also have a lot of ETH. There is a proposal you believe would be a good decision, but you know: If you a majority would vote for it, DAO will invest and that means: sell. DAO will sell ETH or will give ETH to a project to invest in it. That means it will lose Marketcap until there is a return. ETH will most likely also go down because ppl will anticipate sell pressure if a proposal goes through. How many will vote for a longterm-decision that still involves a lot of risk and take the loss in short-term because DAO needs to sell?
 
And why should DAO be worth more on the exchange than the money it has? Because they will make a lot of money?

Let's say they start with $180 Mio and DAO invests in a project, like slock.it or whatever. And let's say DAO invests $10 Mio. How much time will it take to make profit? And will there be profit? And even if, will it be that much profit to justify prices above a current marketcap?

The question in DAO is: Who will definitely benefit? Those who will get money from DAO. That's safe. Nothing else is safe.

Plus: Why should I give my money to an "institution" in which a majority will decide - or those with the biggest voting power? I like it more to make my own research, my own analysis and my own decisions. I don't trust a majority and I don't trust groups with a lot of power. And like I said above: The majority will always have to face a conflict of interest between short-term-loss and possible long-term-profit - which will always involve the risk that there won't be any profit but a loss.

Conclusion: In my opinion DAO is very interesting and will be interesting to watch. There will be much to learn out of it. But out of investor-perspective... I don't understand why so many believe it's a good buy.
Thanks for this quality post. Only a few of them in this thread Wink

very high quality text!
i agree with your opinion!
my englisch in not as good as yours, and it is difficult to write what i know in a professional way
sr. member
Activity: 326
Merit: 250
Just create a DAO for lisk, let Lisk holders invest in it and use it to get apps running, a good app starts with the need of money.
With the DAO we can invest in those apps which will gain value and lisk price will rise.
legendary
Activity: 1007
Merit: 1010
★YoBit.Net★
YoBit is 100% ready for Lisk.

Free lisk coins (0.01 lisk) on our FreeCoins page: https://yobit.net/en/freecoins/

Lisk Trade: https://yobit.net/en/trade/LISK/BTC


hero member
Activity: 533
Merit: 500
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