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Topic: [ANN]ORA::NXT MS Currency::'Shuffling' for NXT::jl777 involved::Anon fungibility - page 2. (Read 5758 times)

sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
The news we've all been waiting for!!

ANNOUNCEMENT


Hi community,

The distribution of the ORA currency has re-started. The currency is already in circulation, 127 users that sent their assets to the old redemption account have been already honored.

To obtain your MS currency send all you MIC and ORA assets to the ORA currency distribution account: NXT-E26D-DMFT-N8XV-37PBS
They will be redeemed by the ORA currency of the monetary system, ticker: XORA http://nxtportal.org/currencies/6933225670038769986

The deadline to redeem your assets will be announced soon.


Br,
Nxter.

Thanks to everyone for being patient, and a BIG thanks to Nxter Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250

I still have a bunch of the original tokens left which I did not send in before Darkhorse disappeared- where am I supposed to send them?


The community treasurers should be making an announcement soon!  Nxter said this earlier today:

Hi,

I have setup an account to act as initial ORA treasury: NXT-LR35-7YFJ-C3CJ-H5EBZ  http://nxtportal.org/accounts/18421274091316665379
KORA you may send the XORA to it.

Since account control (multi-signature wallets) is not yet available, the current ORA treasurers (fragora, pilot and me) will share the private key of the treasury account. This will avoid that the funds get locked up forever in the case I should get hit by a bus.

Once the treasury gets the currency XORA from Kora, we will set up a another account to redeem MIC and ORA assets. And of course, the first step in the redemption process will be to honor with XORA currency all of those pleople who already sent ORA and MIC assets to Darkhorse. Please, stay tuned.



I've sent all 1 billion XORA to Nxter's new treasury account, so everything is in place to re-start the redemptions for MIC & ORA!!
legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1018

I still have a bunch of the original tokens left which I did not send in before Darkhorse disappeared- where am I supposed to send them?
hero member
Activity: 690
Merit: 500
So will people who had sent their ORA to DarkhorseNXT receive XORA assets? Or did they just lose them?
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Update
Good news everyone, I have created the new 'XORA' MS currency!!

This is 'XORA' MS - http://nxtportal.org/currencies/6933225670038769986



Even better news in many ways, we have been fortunate to attract another volunteer community treasurer to help out with the ORA & MIC redemptions and the next stage of the distribution.

I'm incredibly happy to introduce nxtforum.org member Nxter as a new member of the ORA community treasury team! I'm sure everyone will be as happy as I am to have another community treasurer on-board to help keep ORA viable as a community based project!

A BIG thanks to Nxter Smiley


Hi ORERS.


I would like to step out and volunteer myself to help with the ORA treasury and accounting along fragora and pilot (if they and the community agree).


I spend time everyday in this forum and I think it is time to move from being a simple observer to be an active member of the community. The ORA project is the perfect place to do so.


I am an ORA believer, I am an original stakeholder from the web application and I not only keep the whole stake from the original distribution but I also bought some extra ORA in the AE.

I will transfer 100% of the XORA coins to the community treasury account(s) once the treasurers have setup their new treasury accounts & procedures.

It's been a good week for ORA Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 252

... I'm going to suggest that we set that date - 22nd May 2015 - as our cut-off date for Darkhorse to return, so unless we hear from DH before then I suggest we create the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency on that date and proceed with the first task, assuming Pilot & fragora are still willing to act as short-term community treasurers.

...

Has the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency been created and distributed yet?

It has not. We haven't decided on the settings yet (see post below for more info).
https://nxtforum.org/ora/(ann)oranxt-ms-currency'shuffling'-for-nxtjl777-involvedanon-fungibility/msg181083/#msg181083
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0

... I'm going to suggest that we set that date - 22nd May 2015 - as our cut-off date for Darkhorse to return, so unless we hear from DH before then I suggest we create the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency on that date and proceed with the first task, assuming Pilot & fragora are still willing to act as short-term community treasurers.

...

Has the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency been created and distributed yet?
legendary
Activity: 1181
Merit: 1018
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
is this connected to supernet then? I haven't heard about it in a while


ORA isn't part of SuperNET, but we are trying to position ourselves as the default 'shuffle' MS currency for NXT ( shuffle tech adds anon functionality to NXT ecosystem), and jl777 has kindly offered to help us. We are planning to distribute some ORA MS coins to SuperNET asset holders via a dividend, so that would mean every SuperNET hodler would be an 'ORA::shuffle' hodler too!

So we're not part of SuperNET as such, but I think it's fair to say we're definitely 'brothers in arms' in a real sense.

I think you should just create a summary of the discussion with a link to the forum post instead of posting the entirety of the exchange here.
A concise what, why, who, how and when will work so much better.


Thanks for the feedback! I have often been uncertain on how best to communicate the vision for ORA and what's going on in a way that encourages people to get involved with the project, so I appreciate your suggestion. I do agree that concise summaries would be easier for casual followers of ORA to digest, but at this stage of the project (the calm before the storm, hopefully),  there honestly isn't a lot of discussion going on, so copy/pasting whole posts probably doesn't hurt too much. I've probably done all I can to outline my vision for a leaderless decentralised community based 'starfish' project, so my function as the catylyst for ORA is coming to an end, and I'm really just  trying to keep communication channels oiled in the hope that others start to appreciate the potential with ORA::shuffle and get inspired to get involved..

I think there's enough detail in the roadmap to make ORA 'work', so it's down to actions now, but not really from me at this time, and I guess that's why I'm less inclined to summarise things. Over the last 12 months I think I've explained my thoughts on what ORA *could* be in some detail, so now it's probably time for me to pull back a bit and let others take the lead. It did feel a bit weird to post 100% of my PM exchanges with jl777 for example, but I do honestly want ORA to be leaderless and decentralised, and for that to be a real possibility everyone needs access to all the information. Past events have confirmed to me that other people usually have better ideas for how to proceed than me anyway, and I'm ready to offer support to any capable people who feel inclined to get involved now.

"ORA::shuffle, default NXT anon MS coin" - getting to this point was difficult, and I'm personally very excited at the possible future ahead, but it's really just the jumping off point, and getting here with a viable plan and a viable community to make it happen was always what I saw as my chief roll. What happens next is sort of out of my hands now, as it should be in a leaderless starfish project, and that's exciting,but a little scary too.
member
Activity: 113
Merit: 10
is this connected to supernet then? I haven't heard about it in a while


ORA isn't part of SuperNET, but we are trying to position ourselves as the default 'shuffle' MS currency for NXT ( shuffle tech adds anon functionality to NXT ecosystem), and jl777 has kindly offered to help us. We are planning to distribute some ORA MS coins to SuperNET asset holders via a dividend, so that would mean every SuperNET hodler would be an 'ORA::shuffle' hodler too!

So we're not part of SuperNET as such, but I think it's fair to say we're definitely 'brothers in arms' in a real sense.

I think you should just create a summary of the discussion with a link to the forum post instead of posting the entirety of the exchange here.
A concise what, why, who, how and when will work so much better.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
is this connected to supernet then? I haven't heard about it in a while


ORA isn't part of SuperNET, but we are trying to position ourselves as the default 'shuffle' MS currency for NXT ( shuffle tech adds anon functionality to NXT ecosystem), and jl777 has kindly offered to help us. We are planning to distribute some ORA MS coins to SuperNET asset holders via a dividend, so that would mean every SuperNET hodler would be an 'ORA::shuffle' hodler too!

So we're not part of SuperNET as such, but I think it's fair to say we're definitely 'brothers in arms' in a real sense.
full member
Activity: 197
Merit: 100
is this connected to supernet then? I haven't heard about it in a while
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
So it's getting close to the deadline we set for Darkhorse to return (ORA's first birthday on 22 May), so we should start firming up our game plan. The first task on the roadmap is:

Quote
Short term Treasurers (Pilot & fragora):
- recreate ORA MS treasury account & MS currency
     - re-create balances from transactions in DH's redemption accounts
     - continue MIC & ORA asset redemptions
     - create new ORA MS currency
     - distribute 100% of ORA MS
         1- to users
         2- to other community members for other purposes (i.e. apenzl/NXTER.org & jl777/SuperNET & long term treasurers)

so, if Pilot & frag are still 'go' for 'ORA::shuffle' MS launch, then .... over to Pilot & frag to flick the ignition switch! I will cover the costs of all tx fees etc.

It does appear that DH is unlikely to come back, and that means we can't use the 'XOR' primo 3 character MS name he registered on the projects behalf. I do feel the loss of the 25K NXT listing fee, but honestly, the loss of the 'XOR' name hurts more. It was a cool name for 'ORA::shuffle', but it's locked up in an account we can't access! Frustration!!!

Anyway, time to move on. Hopefully DH is alright, and I bare him no ill feeling at all. DH was/is a good guy, and I'm 100% convinced his going missing couldn't be helped on his part!


One thing I would like to open up for further discussion is 'NXTignite', a new service being offered by NXTinspect.
https://nxtforum.org/asset-exchange-general/nxtignite-a-nxtinspect-(nxti)-mentorship-program/msg179192/#msg179192

Could 'ORA::shuffle' benefit from using the services of NXTignite? We have a good roadmap, but lets be honest, the ORA starfish is still quite weak, and with DH gone we have lost a permanent long-term community treasurer who was genuinely enthused for a long term commitment as the main guy co-ordinating the funds. My suggestion assumes Pilot & frag are stepping up for a 'short & sweet' burst of energy only, and aren't committing to ORA treasurer duties in an ongoing capacity into the future. If they are keen to stay on as long term treasurers, well that would be more than cool, but if they're not (i.e they're just volunteering to get the first task completed as outlined above), then maybe NXTignite could help. The escrow service looks viable as a possible long term community treasury of sorts.

I'll let Pilot & frag speak for themselves, and whatever they decide is more than cool with me, and I'm truly grateful for any help anyone can offer ORA, especially as we're a community project. I just wanted to put the NXTignite idea out there for further discussion.

NXTignite would give the ORA starfish a little more 'backbone', and exploring the option can't hurt.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Hi everyone, just re-posting this nxtforum.org post here for ALL interested ORAfarians Smiley



Great posts Kora and I am on board to help in any way I can, but I think filling the other roles is just a formality and this one is key --
delegated task to jl777 & team SuperNET
- recruit & pay shuffle dev
- determine how best to implement shuffle reward payment (including amount) to incentivise shuffling

Thanks for all your support frag!!

I agree that the key to success for ORA::shuffle will be getting the 'right' dev to design & code the shuffle plugin, and jl777 & team SuperNET are definitely the right people to help with that critical task. Obviously James is up to his eyeballs with InstantDEX testing at the moment (and other projects no doubt also), but if the rest of us can line up all the other 'pins' then I fully expect James will send down a 'strike' with the tech when the time is right. We have plenty of tasks to complete before then, and we still need to build strong community support & engagement before any of us will really know if ORA::Shuffle has a reasonable chance of success.

We don't have any time limits with this project, and ORA & MIC hodlers have already shown they're in for the long haul, so I think ALL ORA shufflers have sufficient patience to wait, watch & observe, and hopefully some will get more involved as we make progress with the roadmap.


Those numbers look solid to me.

Thanks Mac, as the game show hosts like to say, I'm going to lock those numbers in place now. We can revisit them later if need be, but for now lets work on the basis that the 'ORA::Shuffle' roadmap is:

Like kora mentioned I'm setting up a website to help with the promotion. Nothing fancy, a simple one-page site with room for general information and links. But with a design that IMO fits the new direction we're heading. It's 99.9% done development-wise and is ready to be filled with some actual content. Kora's agreed to help write some text, but anyone's welcome to contribute, just let me know. We'll be able to launch this site whenever we feel it'd be a good time to do so.

Good work Mac! I'll try and make a start on some basic text for the orashuffle.com website. As Mac said, everyone is more than welcome to contribute text and ideas for the new website.



I'm also going to point out that ORA starfish will turn 'one' on 22nd May 2015 (one year from my original bitcointalk.org forum announcement post). We've come a long way since then, and I'm personally very grateful to all those who have helped along the way and shown interest & support. I'm going to suggest that we set that date - 22nd May 2015 - as our cut-off date for Darkhorse to return, so unless we hear from DH before then I suggest we create the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency on that date and proceed with the first task, assuming Pilot & fragora are still willing to act as short-term community treasurers.

Quote
Short term Treasurers (Pilot & fragora):
- recreate ORA MS treasury account & MS currency
     - re-create balances from transactions in DH's redemption accounts
     - continue MIC & ORA asset redemptions
     - create new ORA MS currency
     - distribute 100% of ORA MS
         1- to users
         2- to other community members for other purposes (i.e. apenzl/NXTER.org & jl777/SuperNET & long term treasurers)
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Hey ORA'farians!

I suggest everyone who's following ORA and the recent discussion on the possible 'default shuffle MS coin' keep track of the discussions on nxtforum.org from now on.

As a NXT MS currency that's where the 'hearts & minds' of the majority of our community hang out.

Join in and have your say, we have our own 'child' board!

The future of ORA is being decided as I write, so head on over and express yourself!!

ORA needs your love ... TODAY Smiley

https://nxtforum.org/ora/
sr. member
Activity: 299
Merit: 252
...
Anyway, I understand your frustration, but I'm a 'glass is half full' guy, and a couple of weeks ago I was putting ORA into stasis (i.e.effectively the project was over), then the HUMAN ELEMENT of ORA - the 'starfish' stuff - kicked in:

1- Pilot offered to be a community treasurer
2- Jack Needles suggested ORA as default NXT shuffle coin
3- jl777 got "interested" and offered to help us

That makes me conclude that despite the obvious problem with our chief treasurer going missing (who I'm personally very worried about as someone I worked with and got to know as a very good colleague & friend), ORA as a leaderless decentralized 'starfish' project is actually really healthy. I have contributed very little to this re-birth (not the idea, not the tech etc), and that makes me feel great. Remember, ORA started out as a community based 'experiment', so this really is about 'the journey'. There's no script (ORA development is 100% organic & community driven), so there's no 'guru' or tech messiah in the wings ready to do everything (or anything) unless they feel its worth the effort.
...

I like to think the integrity and persistence of this project is shining through. I very much doubt it'd have gotten this kind of attention now otherwise. I also feared for ORA's heartbeat when DH never came back, think we all did. It turned out we still have more pages to write and that makes me sincerely happy, having spent countless hours with this community.

...
@josegines, you're just as much a 'leader' of ORA as me, so have your say on what you think *could/should* be done. You mentioned maybe 'we' should have organised everything behind the scenes, then made an announcement after the new treasury accounts and distribution were done, so as not to be unfair, and I understand that point. But that assumes too much pre-planning for a truly decentralized starfish organisation. There isn't a board room , or cabinet table where decisions get made, then announced. Everything has to be as open as possible, otherwise its not a decentralized leaderless process.
...

Also well said. All info is public for everyone to digest, anyone here has a chance to get his or her say.
So far it seems everyone's in agreement the general ideas floating around ITT can only lead to a stronger and bigger community.

On a side note I don't think there should be any more "waiting around" for DH to possibly show up. As soon as we got a solid plan and numbers for how to proceed then that's what we should do IMO.

// Mac
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
@Kora, Thank you very much for the explanation. Be glad to have someone as you at the head, I believe that the majority would have already retired and you continue here, then that at least places great trust in us.

He hates being called the head Smiley. Yes, he started the ORA project, but his aim all along was for the community to take over. He is unique though among crypto circles as he put his own money up to start the project, gave away most of his small ORA allocation and bought his current holdings on the AE
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 532
@Kora, Thank you very much for the explanation. Be glad to have someone as you at the head, I believe that the majority would have already retired and you continue here, then that at least places great trust in us.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250

what exactly is it you are complaining about?

it is clear, there is an AE for buying-selling in which we are not the real ones interested in ORA. It is not an AE that it represents to the community ORA.

Those that they have supported his NOW are those that they have not wanted to send his ORA for the change for XOR, nevertheless now beneficiaries go out on having had freedom with his ORA and having sold them if this way they decide it.

An important reporting has done with the most important part of the community caught in the account NXT-G7QA-2KUA-BLLZ-5FUCY

In my opinion, if there was an important reporting, the problem of the shareholders should be had solved first, to be on equal terms in the AE.

This AE does not represent to the community ORA

Meanwhile more raise the price in the AE, now it is in historical maxima, more unjust will be this situation for the shareholders.


Are you aware of the fact that there is a great deal of concern for the wellbeing of the person who collected the tokens?

Nobody knows what happened to DarkHorse, but obviously he didn't steal the pile of ORA tokens and bought a beach villa on Hawaii.

Since when a community depends on one person?


I've been in ORA since July / 14, do not rush, what I say is that the situation in the AE is not fair to the Shareholders.

If the price was stable there would be no problem but I just now rising to absolute maximum.

@josegines, thanks for following ORA and having your say, we need as many people involved and sharing their opinions as possible, and I understand your point, and I feel your frustration (I'm in the same situation as you, ORA locked up in DH's redemption account). While there does appear to be some trade 'action' happening now on the NXT AE that you're missing out on, maybe consider that the price is rising, so if you sold now you would miss out on 'potential' gains far exceeding what we've seen so far. Everything is uncertain of course, but ORA has never had better prospects than now with the 'ORA::Shuffling' idea. Maybe one day in the future you will be thankful that your ORA was locked up and you couldn't sell. I've talked to guys who sold all their bitcoins for $3 and thought at the time they made a great profit.

As for your comment "Since when a community depends on one person?", I would honestly say the vast majority of crypto projects suffer from this problem. We like to think of crypto as being 'decentralised' because the tech is based on the revolution of the blockchain, but the reality is the 'human dimension' of crypto is still very centralised around "key people". What would happen to emunie if Fuserleer went MIA, or to Ethereum if Vitalek dropped out. Truth is most crypto projects on the human level are pyramid shaped. There are exceptions (bitcoin & NXT), but for most alt coins there are key people keeping projects moving forward, and if they drop out too early, everything can fall apart rapidly.

Now, with ORA we've tried to recognize these realities from day one and we've tried to make ORA leaderless and 'starfish' like from the get-go, but in the case of DH and his treasury account I'm not sure if we could have done anything better. Soon NXT tech will allow for rock-solid mulit-user accounts with 2 of 3 access (i.e. one rogue treasurer can't take off with community money, but 2 of 3 treasurers can still access the funds in case one guy disappears).

The problem for ORA so far is that tech isn't available yet. Should DH have given me his account password? In retrospect maybe, but what if I lost it, or I got "hacked" (which I did in January!!). Then everyone would have been critical of poor community fund security practices. Remember poor klee and the NXT community funds being stolen from his account. Also, having me separate from the community funds was always essential to develop 'trust', and for a while there ORA was really two active guys (DH & myself), plus support guys offering ideas and feedback.

Anyway, I understand your frustration, but I'm a 'glass is half full' guy, and a couple of weeks ago I was putting ORA into stasis (i.e.effectively the project was over), then the HUMAN ELEMENT of ORA - the 'starfish' stuff - kicked in:

1- Pilot offered to be a community treasurer
2- Jack Needles suggested ORA as default NXT shuffle coin
3- jl777 got "interested" and offered to help us

That makes me conclude that despite the obvious problem with our chief treasurer going missing (who I'm personally very worried about as someone I worked with and got to know as a very good colleague & friend), ORA as a leaderless decentralized 'starfish' project is actually really healthy. I have contributed very little to this re-birth (not the idea, not the tech etc), and that makes me feel great. Remember, ORA started out as a community based 'experiment', so this really is about 'the journey'. There's no script (ORA development is 100% organic & community driven), so there's no 'guru' or tech messiah in the wings ready to do everything (or anything) unless they feel its worth the effort.

@josegines, you're just as much a 'leader' of ORA as me, so have your say on what you think *could/should* be done. You mentioned maybe 'we' should have organised everything behind the scenes, then made an announcement after the new treasury accounts and distribution were done, so as not to be unfair, and I understand that point. But that assumes too much pre-planning for a truly decentralized starfish organisation. There isn't a board room , or cabinet table where decisions get made, then announced. Everything has to be as open as possible, otherwise its not a decentralized leaderless process.

hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 532

what exactly is it you are complaining about?

it is clear, there is an AE for buying-selling in which we are not the real ones interested in ORA. It is not an AE that it represents to the community ORA.

Those that they have supported his NOW are those that they have not wanted to send his ORA for the change for XOR, nevertheless now beneficiaries go out on having had freedom with his ORA and having sold them if this way they decide it.

An important reporting has done with the most important part of the community caught in the account NXT-G7QA-2KUA-BLLZ-5FUCY

In my opinion, if there was an important reporting, the problem of the shareholders should be had solved first, to be on equal terms in the AE.

This AE does not represent to the community ORA

Meanwhile more raise the price in the AE, now it is in historical maxima, more unjust will be this situation for the shareholders.


Are you aware of the fact that there is a great deal of concern for the wellbeing of the person who collected the tokens?

Nobody knows what happened to DarkHorse, but obviously he didn't steal the pile of ORA tokens and bought a beach villa on Hawaii.

Since when a community depends on one person?


I've been in ORA since July / 14, do not rush, what I say is that the situation in the AE is not fair to the Shareholders.

If the price was stable there would be no problem but I just now rising to absolute maximum.
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