Announcement from Avalon | Bitcointalksearch.org

SZD

newbie

Activity: 33

Merit: 0

Quote from: BKM on March 25, 2013, 12:52:27 AM

With respect, as someone relatively new to the game..... may I offer the following insights and comments:

The timing and structure of this sale prevents a newcomer to the BTC economy such as myself from gaining access - I needed to sell stocks, settle the trade, transfer money to a bank account, wire money to Mt Gox and then finally get BTC to fund a purchase of Avalon equipment. Total delay estimated at 8 - 10 business days - not your problem I know, but worth mentioning perhaps
Despite issues of timing, if I take the $16,000 investment for 2 x 85 Gh/s (ttl 170 Gh/s) from Avalon and (ahem) pre-order BFL machines now for an estimated total of 720 Gh/s purchase AND allow for in excess of doubling of difficulty from 12,000,000 to 25,000,000 for delayed delivery I show a total return of $125,000 for Avalon and $273,000 for BFL respectively based on a time frame of 12 months
NB- I have a window of recourse with my credit card company and perhaps paypal should BFL not show sufficient evidence within the next 30 days that they will deliver product - no such opportunity or recourse exists with Avalon

Clearly, I have opted to order from your competitor.

Should your value proposition and business model shift to a more competitive stance in the future I look forward to having the option to become an Avalon customer as well.

Best of luck with Batch #3 and beyond and thank you for your groundbreaking contribution to the future of Bitcoin for all.

I'm very doubtful that the difficulty will only double when all the batches are out. And with btc at this exchange rate it's a massive gamble to buy one of these and you may as well make up numbers out of thin air. Is there a difficulty calculator out there that says how it will increased based on added x g/h?

Transisto

donator

Activity: 1731

Merit: 1008

Quote from: techwtf on March 25, 2013, 10:23:53 PM

Quote from: Transisto on March 25, 2013, 10:20:25 PM

What kind of pricing is that ?

3 module 74.36BTC , = 24.76

4 module 101.14BTC, = 25.285

Not only modules are cheaper on the cheapest unit, it's as if the whole casing + daughter board + controller + fans were worth nothing.

PSU may be better in 4 modules machines. it is also heavier to ship.

as an ex gpu miner I obviously choose the without PSU option.

techwtf

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: Transisto on March 25, 2013, 10:20:25 PM

What kind of pricing is that ?

3 module 74.36BTC , = 24.76

4 module 101.14BTC, = 25.285

Not only modules are cheaper on the cheapest unit, it's as if the whole casing + daughter board + controller + fans were worth nothing.

PSU may be better in 4 modules machines. it is also heavier to ship.

Transisto

donator

Activity: 1731

Merit: 1008

What kind of pricing is that ?

3 module 74.36BTC , = 24.76

4 module 101.14BTC, = 25.285

Not only modules are cheaper on the cheapest unit, it's as if the whole casing + daughter board + controller + fans were worth nothing.

WinTame2012

sr. member

Activity: 315

Merit: 250

Official sponsor of Microsoft Corp.

Some more units are in stock now. Hurry up Wink

organofcorti

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1007

Poor impulse control.

Quote from: BKM on March 25, 2013, 10:39:52 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on March 25, 2013, 01:21:10 AM

Quote from: BKM on March 25, 2013, 12:52:27 AM

..........

Despite issues of timing, if I take the $16,000 investment for 2 x 85 Gh/s (ttl 170 Gh/s) from Avalon and (ahem) pre-order BFL machines now for an estimated total of 720 Gh/s purchase AND allow for in excess of doubling of difficulty from 12,000,000 to 25,000,000 for delayed delivery I show a total return of $125,000 for Avalon and $273,000 for BFL respectively based on a time frame of 12 months

Clearly, I have opted to order from your competitor.

Should your value proposition and business model shift to a more competitive stance in the future I look forward to having the option to become an Avalon customer as well.

Best of luck with Batch #3 and beyond and thank you for your groundbreaking contribution to the future of Bitcoin for all.

How are you modelling this?

Unless you have a good model of what the mining difficulty will be between the moment you start to mine and twelve months later, you can't estimate the btc earned. Further, unless you know what the exchange rate will be during that time period, you won't be able to calculate total return in dollars.

I wouldn't go making plans based on the figures you provide.

The 'modelling' is illustrative only and derived from http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/. I have only risked what I can afford to lose and understand that my choice is rife with assumptions.

My essential point is that if I take the risk with a BFL order the scale of the potential return vs Avalon given a doubling of difficulty between the timing of a prospective Avalon order and BFL is worth the risk for me.

A major factor in my decision is the fact that I can cancel an order within the next 30 or so days through my credit card purchase if I do not receive sufficient evidence that BFL is making substantive progress.

I will reassess when and if Batch 4 comes along.

You're missing out a few important factors. Here's a better model for you, hope it helps:

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/03/912-asic-choices-asic-earnings-update.html

BKM

sr. member

Activity: 315

Merit: 250

Quote from: organofcorti on March 25, 2013, 01:21:10 AM

Quote from: BKM on March 25, 2013, 12:52:27 AM

..........

Despite issues of timing, if I take the $16,000 investment for 2 x 85 Gh/s (ttl 170 Gh/s) from Avalon and (ahem) pre-order BFL machines now for an estimated total of 720 Gh/s purchase AND allow for in excess of doubling of difficulty from 12,000,000 to 25,000,000 for delayed delivery I show a total return of $125,000 for Avalon and $273,000 for BFL respectively based on a time frame of 12 months

Clearly, I have opted to order from your competitor.

Should your value proposition and business model shift to a more competitive stance in the future I look forward to having the option to become an Avalon customer as well.

Best of luck with Batch #3 and beyond and thank you for your groundbreaking contribution to the future of Bitcoin for all.

How are you modelling this?

Unless you have a good model of what the mining difficulty will be between the moment you start to mine and twelve months later, you can't estimate the btc earned. Further, unless you know what the exchange rate will be during that time period, you won't be able to calculate total return in dollars.

I wouldn't go making plans based on the figures you provide.

The 'modelling' is illustrative only and derived from http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/. I have only risked what I can afford to lose and understand that my choice is rife with assumptions.

My essential point is that if I take the risk with a BFL order the scale of the potential return vs Avalon given a doubling of difficulty between the timing of a prospective Avalon order and BFL is worth the risk for me.

A major factor in my decision is the fact that I can cancel an order within the next 30 or so days through my credit card purchase if I do not receive sufficient evidence that BFL is making substantive progress.

I will reassess when and if Batch 4 comes along.

aTg

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

Quote from: hchc on March 24, 2013, 11:40:53 PM

Is there any plan to sell just the ASIC themselves and let others build their own units?

Yes, if you are interested and is ready to purchase 10,000 chips or more. ( the 65Gh/s unit has 240 chips. ) Please contact init.d (at) bitsyn.com for more information.

Let's see, there are people asking BitSyncom months and months writing to please sell your chips and we have received no response, and now say the idea was to sell the chips to decentralize mining? that joke is this?

endlesscustoms

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

at that price only the ones who have it already will be able to have more i think thats a lil messed up to centrialize it even more bad as usd some people jus gotta have it all they cant let a lil guy get any where ever fucking lame GREED is a nasty thing...... bastards

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cchan on March 25, 2013, 02:12:55 AM

Quote from: dropt on March 25, 2013, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: cchan on March 25, 2013, 01:48:50 AM

Quote from: BitSyncom on March 25, 2013, 12:08:12 AM

batch #3 is 500 units. and sales will begin at that time.

at what time exactly? where to order?
Thanks, Yifu!

http://store.avalon-asics.com/

8:30AM E.S.T. 25-MAR-2013

thanks, but the link doesn't work.

...yet. Wait for it.

Beepbop

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

Quote from: desired_username on March 25, 2013, 02:34:13 AM

I will never again purchase mining hardware for BTC. If you have BTC keep it and buy ASIC for fiat, you will thank yourself later. ;-)

Some people here focus too much on sunk costs and fail to consider opportunity costs.
If holding BTC and waiting for it to rise in value is profitable, then it makes no difference if you mined the BTC yourself or bought them on an exchange (except for the tiny exchange fee).
If mining hardware is profitable, it is equally profitable to buy it with BTC as with USD.

It's a fallacy to treat a hardware purchase paid for with self-mined BTC, or a long position in BTC that you mined yourself, as less costly than the same investment paid for with USD from your paycheck; you're still paying the opportunity cost of not getting USD for your BTC, of not selling your hardware, etc. I understand the sentiment of "I started with an old desktop PC, and all the upgrades have paid for themselves" but if you could have gotten more money from offloading the BTC for USD then it was still an inomptimal investment.

maomao

member

Activity: 117

Merit: 10

Not only FUD :)

Quote from: cchan on March 25, 2013, 02:12:55 AM

Quote from: dropt on March 25, 2013, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: cchan on March 25, 2013, 01:48:50 AM

Quote from: BitSyncom on March 25, 2013, 12:08:12 AM

batch #3 is 500 units. and sales will begin at that time.

at what time exactly? where to order?
Thanks, Yifu!

http://store.avalon-asics.com/

8:30AM E.S.T. 25-MAR-2013

thanks, but the link doesn't work.

Great firewall

desired_username

hero member

Activity: 886

Merit: 1013

Quote from: luffy on March 25, 2013, 01:47:11 AM

if you have cash you buy BTC
if you have BTC you buy ASIC

noooo.

I will never again purchase mining hardware for BTC. If you have BTC keep it and buy ASIC for fiat, you will thank yourself later. ;-)

Bowjob

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

I can't say I'm a little disappointed with the delay as I was hoping to get an Avalon for my birthday, but I guess I'll have to wait till the end of May to get my hands on it. Still, satoshispeed to you guys, and have fun with the vacation.

riqpit

newbie

Activity: 30

Merit: 0

Quote from: BKM on March 25, 2013, 12:52:27 AM

With respect, as someone relatively new to the game..... may I offer the following insights and comments:

The timing and structure of this sale prevents a newcomer to the BTC economy such as myself from gaining access - I needed to sell stocks, settle the trade, transfer money to a bank account, wire money to Mt Gox and then finally get BTC to fund a purchase of Avalon equipment. Total delay estimated at 8 - 10 business days - not your problem I know, but worth mentioning perhaps
Despite issues of timing, if I take the $16,000 investment for 2 x 85 Gh/s (ttl 170 Gh/s) from Avalon and (ahem) pre-order BFL machines now for an estimated total of 720 Gh/s purchase AND allow for in excess of doubling of difficulty from 12,000,000 to 25,000,000 for delayed delivery I show a total return of $125,000 for Avalon and $273,000 for BFL respectively based on a time frame of 12 months
NB- I have a window of recourse with my credit card company and perhaps paypal should BFL not show sufficient evidence within the next 30 days that they will deliver product - no such opportunity or recourse exists with Avalon

Clearly, I have opted to order from your competitor.

Should your value proposition and business model shift to a more competitive stance in the future I look forward to having the option to become an Avalon customer as well.

Best of luck with Batch #3 and beyond and thank you for your groundbreaking contribution to the future of Bitcoin for all.

you should really consider splitting your investment

riqpit

newbie

Activity: 30

Merit: 0

Quote from: rudrigorc2 on March 25, 2013, 12:01:46 AM

So I hope they ship at least the first wave of batch2 before going out on vacation. Am I right, yes ? Wink

before asic ----------20-25ghs
asicminer -----------12ghs
300x66ghz avalons---20ghz

current hashrate 54,227.62 GH/s

BFL asics, hashrate not affected

I really hope so...that would make a huge difference - would really help to make up for the delays

cchan

sr. member

Activity: 379

Merit: 250

Quote from: dropt on March 25, 2013, 02:02:51 AM

Quote from: cchan on March 25, 2013, 01:48:50 AM

Quote from: BitSyncom on March 25, 2013, 12:08:12 AM

batch #3 is 500 units. and sales will begin at that time.

at what time exactly? where to order?
Thanks, Yifu!

http://store.avalon-asics.com/

8:30AM E.S.T. 25-MAR-2013

thanks, but the link doesn't work.

Bowjob

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

I try not to bother you Yifu as a batch 2 owner.. but if you can answer this, it would be great.

Will batch 2 get the opportunity to upgrade to 4 modules? IRRC we never got the option to do so, so I was stuck with 3 modules.

dropt

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000