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Topic: [ANN][RSU]█ ReserveShare █ NXT AE | FAIR distribution | First POR| UNIQUE Source - page 8. (Read 256314 times)

sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
The maximum reward per block is a good thing and I was going to discuss it as well, I just waited until we finish with other parameters. The main purpose of having the maximum reward per block is not the inflation control but the network security enforcement: this maximum keeps people from merging their inputs into a single one and running a wallet once per staking period.

Layman term please.  Huh

The txout is an output of any transaction that credits its destination address with some value.

The PoS works this way: The wallet iterates through all available txout's that are not spent. For each txout it calculates its Proof-of-Stake hash value that is a function of several data elements associated with this particular txout. If the calculated hash value divided by that txout's coinage is less than the current PoS difficulty then the so-called PoS kernel is found, so a wallet constructs a PoS block using this txout and submits a block to the network.

When the txout is spent its coin age is reset to zero be it a PoS block generation transaction or regular spent transaction.

Thus, the less unspent input transactions you have, the less blocks you could create. Provided that the unspent txout becomes eligible for PoS block creation not sooner than it gets 7 days old (the period we are going to select) and the target time is 1 minute, we need to have at least 10080 txouts to sustain the target time of 1 minute at the base PoS difficulty. The difficulty is a measurement of a network security, the more txouts eligible for staking a network has the more is networks security and the more complicated it be to make an attack on a network.

If every of the initial 170 holders would merge its coins into a single txout then the network would generate 170 blocks in a week period.

Thus, to ensure that a network creates at least 10080 blocks in a week period we need to force holders to keep their stakes split enough. The only possible way to achieve this is to limit the maximum reward per PoS block. Hence the maximum reward per block should corresponds to the txout value of ~100 coins (1000000/10080). To make some reserve for difficulty to decrease we need to lower that value even more. I would propose to set this limit to the value that corresponds to the 50 coins input at its age of 30 days (the maximum coin age after which the probability to find a block is not growing anymore).

To 'bootstrap' the network initially, so the holders would not need to split their stakes manually, the coins distribution script that I have to develop will generate the series of transactions per holder address.



Okay finaly i understood something. Since this is the initial parameters, we can test your proposal out. Shouldnt be a problem imo.
legendary
Activity: 977
Merit: 1011
wait for the new dev team. We must become active again.
I  agree
sr. member
Activity: 461
Merit: 250
wait for the new dev team. We must become active again.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1001
interesting  Grin

I thought it was dead and sold a lot of assets tooo cheap Tongue

but now I will keep watching this Smiley
so many typically examples.
dev gone and new dev team took over, and die slowly.
or not , anyway i lost a lot whit rsu, hope that i'll recover somehow my losses
anyway, hope this new dev team will do something real,
ps: I have still some rsu.
legendary
Activity: 1573
Merit: 1057
interesting  Grin

I thought it was dead and sold a lot of assets tooo cheap Tongue

but now I will keep watching this Smiley
so many typically examples.
dev gone and new dev team took over, and die slowly.
or not , anyway i lost a lot whit rsu, hope that i'll recover somehow my losses
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1001
interesting  Grin

I thought it was dead and sold a lot of assets tooo cheap Tongue

but now I will keep watching this Smiley
so many typically examples.
dev gone and new dev team took over, and die slowly.
member
Activity: 91
Merit: 10
interesting  Grin

I thought it was dead and sold a lot of assets tooo cheap Tongue

but now I will keep watching this Smiley
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 523
The maximum reward per block is a good thing and I was going to discuss it as well, I just waited until we finish with other parameters. The main purpose of having the maximum reward per block is not the inflation control but the network security enforcement: this maximum keeps people from merging their inputs into a single one and running a wallet once per staking period.

Layman term please.  Huh

The txout is an output of any transaction that credits its destination address with some value.

The PoS works this way: The wallet iterates through all available txout's that are not spent. For each txout it calculates its Proof-of-Stake hash value that is a function of several data elements associated with this particular txout. If the calculated hash value divided by that txout's coinage is less than the current PoS difficulty then the so-called PoS kernel is found, so a wallet constructs a PoS block using this txout and submits a block to the network.

When the txout is spent its coin age is reset to zero be it a PoS block generation transaction or regular spent transaction.

Thus, the less unspent input transactions you have, the less blocks you could create. Provided that the unspent txout becomes eligible for PoS block creation not sooner than it gets 7 days old (the period we are going to select) and the target time is 1 minute, we need to have at least 10080 txouts to sustain the target time of 1 minute at the base PoS difficulty. The difficulty is a measurement of a network security, the more txouts eligible for staking a network has the more is networks security and the more complicated it be to make an attack on a network.

If every of the initial 170 holders would merge its coins into a single txout then the network would generate 170 blocks in a week period.

Thus, to ensure that a network creates at least 10080 blocks in a week period we need to force holders to keep their stakes split enough. The only possible way to achieve this is to limit the maximum reward per PoS block. Hence the maximum reward per block should corresponds to the txout value of ~100 coins (1000000/10080). To make some reserve for difficulty to decrease we need to lower that value even more. I would propose to set this limit to the value that corresponds to the 50 coins input at its age of 30 days (the maximum coin age after which the probability to find a block is not growing anymore).

To 'bootstrap' the network initially, so the holders would not need to split their stakes manually, the coins distribution script that I have to develop will generate the series of transactions per holder address.

sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
i've been on the road couple of weeks, what is new ?
thank you

The original dev left. So we are taking over the project with a new direction.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
The maximum reward per block is a good thing and I was going to discuss it as well, I just waited until we finish with other parameters. The main purpose of having the maximum reward per block is not the inflation control but the network security enforcement: this maximum keeps people from merging their inputs into a single one and running a wallet once per staking period.

Layman term please.  Huh
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 523

These are Hyperstake's vital statistics:
-X11 PoW blocks already phased out
-Proof of Stake Blocks Only
-90 Second Block Time
-Minimum Age - 8.8 days (rounded)
-Maximum Age - 30 days
-Annual Interest Rate - 750%
-Maximum Stake Subsidy - 1,000 HYP
-Recommended Block Size - 1,000-4,000 HYP


The timing specs we already have are quite close to the ones of HYP.

My personal opinion about HYP - it is a ponzi scheme: in a year the total supply would be ~13 times bigger than now with no real value behind this figure. You may consider my opinion as FUD in regard of HYP or as it has to be considered, i.e. as a critical view - it is up to you.

The maximum reward per block is a good thing and I was going to discuss it as well, I just waited until we finish with other parameters. The main purpose of having the maximum reward per block is not the inflation control but the network security enforcement: this maximum keeps people from merging their inputs into a single one and running a wallet once per staking period.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
i've been on the road couple of weeks, what is new ?
thank you
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Quote from: halicarton link=t 8)opic=734477.msg9430687#msg9430687 date=1415073670
128 NXT=1000 RSU? QUITE CHEAP !
anyone still buy the token?
any confidence here from new team?

Confident or not, we will continue the project. Cool
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1001
128 NXT=1000 RSU? QUITE CHEAP !
anyone still buy the token?
any confidence here from new team?
full member
Activity: 208
Merit: 100
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
electroneum.com
Nice to see you guys doing some here.

Im on the list, and never got anything.
sr. member
Activity: 402
Merit: 250
128 NXT=1000 RSU? QUITE CHEAP !
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Been away for a while, good to know someone is willing to take up the project. But my concern is will earlier stakeholders like me, who have not claimed their RSU will get a share of the project, or we have been kicked out of the project....




Anyone who currently hold an RS asset will get his share of coins. The list of all current holders to be composed by Darkhorse. The final date to submit claims will be announced in advance.

What about users that did not take NXT assests? I was the one who waited for wallet release?

I am sorry, but the current idea is to use the Nxt AE stake holders. If you want to be involved, you can get your share there. Current selling price in AE for 1000 rs apprx. 128 nxt. Of course you have time now until the wallet release, cannot guarantee the price will stay at that when the redeem point comes.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
Anyone else wants to add their point of view?

We could consider learning from Hyperstake - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hyp-hyperstake-generous-reward-staking-advanced-staking-controls-wallet-678849 - I like the 'experimental' aspect to what they're trying to do with PoS through having a very large stake %, but also having inflation control via a maximum block reward, and max generation.

The incentive is definitely to hold your coins to get the high stake, (so there's little dumping), but the maximum block reward keeps inflation under 'relative' control, so the ECONOMICS of Hyperstake are quite different to other PoS coins.

IMO we could do something similar to Hyperstake with high interest % & maximum stake amounts, but 'extend' it, maybe have interest at 1000% and max stake at 1500.

IMO coin tech innovation in this community is always the main focus, but innovation can also come from economic incentives.


These are Hyperstake's vital statistics:
-X11 PoW blocks already phased out
-Proof of Stake Blocks Only
-90 Second Block Time
-Minimum Age - 8.8 days (rounded)
-Maximum Age - 30 days
-Annual Interest Rate - 750%
-Maximum Stake Subsidy - 1,000 HYP
-Recommended Block Size - 1,000-4,000 HYP

Quote
Inflation control is a very necessity for coins with high interest. The higher the interest rate of a cryptocurrency, the worst the risk of falling into hyperinflation. Some mechanisms have been created to counter this risk. In HyperStake, the two chosen mechanism are max subsidy and max generation.

Max generation is another area we could experiment with, just by changing the coin parameters.

Quote
max generation is, alongside max subsidy, one of the two inflation control mechanisms in HyperStake. Even if there is no limit to the amount of coins (HyperStake, like most high-PoS coin, is an inflationary coin, so no risk of people screaming "premine!" after several years), every day, there will be no more than 960,000 HYP (960 blocks) new coin created.

dixit presstab

The max generation by definition is when each stake will be 1,000 HYP, thus hitting the ceiling each time. Right now we are about halfway to max generation. I don't think we will hit max generation for a long time, because people will always be trying to size their blocks small enough to get rewards that are less than 1,000. I think what really is going to happen is that there will be a fight to stay under max generation, this will mean smaller blocks, and smaller blocks will mean higher difficulty.
This is turn means the difficulty will constantly go higher. Since this is PoS, this cannot be offset by "bigger miners" (as in PoW) so adjustement will go by taking longer.

source: http://hyperstake.wikia.com/wiki/Inflation_control


But Kora, what is the point of just holding and staking, if they dont spend. How do they secure the nodes? What is the incentive for the nodes?

Quote
The max generation by definition is when each stake will be 1,000 HYP, thus hitting the ceiling each time. Right now we are about halfway to max generation. I don't think we will hit max generation for a long time, because people will always be trying to size their blocks small enough to get rewards that are less than 1,000. I think what really is going to happen is that there will be a fight to stay under max generation, this will mean smaller blocks, and smaller blocks will mean higher difficulty.
This is turn means the difficulty will constantly go higher. Since this is PoS, this cannot be offset by "bigger miners" (as in PoW) so adjustement will go by taking longer.


This is something like account limit. One gets rewarded for keeping the max account to the limit. Something we can look into.

Quote
IMO we could do something similar to Hyperstake with high interest % & maximum stake amounts, but 'extend' it, maybe have interest at 1000% and max stake at 1500.
We will have a lot of coins end of the day but lesser value by increasing more that has no function. This can be done when the value of the coin is very high imo. Something we can consider when we have done the fiat-token system in place.

bee,

All these parameters can be changed, right? Maybe you can highlight, which can be changed and which are the ones that cannot be changed. Might be helpful.
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
Anyone else wants to add their point of view?

We could consider learning from Hyperstake - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hyp-hyperstake-generous-reward-staking-advanced-staking-controls-wallet-678849 - I like the 'experimental' aspect to what they're trying to do with PoS through having a very large stake %, but also having inflation control via a maximum block reward, and max generation.

The incentive is definitely to hold your coins to get the high stake, (so there's little dumping), but the maximum block reward keeps inflation under 'relative' control, so the ECONOMICS of Hyperstake are quite different to other PoS coins.

IMO we could do something similar to Hyperstake with high interest % & maximum stake amounts, but 'extend' it, maybe have interest at 1000% and max stake at 1500.

IMO coin tech innovation in this community is always the main focus, but innovation can also come from economic incentives.


These are Hyperstake's vital statistics:
-X11 PoW blocks already phased out
-Proof of Stake Blocks Only
-90 Second Block Time
-Minimum Age - 8.8 days (rounded)
-Maximum Age - 30 days
-Annual Interest Rate - 750%
-Maximum Stake Subsidy - 1,000 HYP
-Recommended Block Size - 1,000-4,000 HYP

Quote
Inflation control is a very necessity for coins with high interest. The higher the interest rate of a cryptocurrency, the worst the risk of falling into hyperinflation. Some mechanisms have been created to counter this risk. In HyperStake, the two chosen mechanism are max subsidy and max generation.

Max generation is another area we could experiment with, just by changing the coin parameters.

Quote
max generation is, alongside max subsidy, one of the two inflation control mechanisms in HyperStake. Even if there is no limit to the amount of coins (HyperStake, like most high-PoS coin, is an inflationary coin, so no risk of people screaming "premine!" after several years), every day, there will be no more than 960,000 HYP (960 blocks) new coin created.

dixit presstab

The max generation by definition is when each stake will be 1,000 HYP, thus hitting the ceiling each time. Right now we are about halfway to max generation. I don't think we will hit max generation for a long time, because people will always be trying to size their blocks small enough to get rewards that are less than 1,000. I think what really is going to happen is that there will be a fight to stay under max generation, this will mean smaller blocks, and smaller blocks will mean higher difficulty.
This is turn means the difficulty will constantly go higher. Since this is PoS, this cannot be offset by "bigger miners" (as in PoW) so adjustement will go by taking longer.

source: http://hyperstake.wikia.com/wiki/Inflation_control
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