Topic: [ANN][STD] StandardCoin - BUILT-IN EXCHANGE - Permanently Rising Rate - page 19. (Read 48005 times)
March 26, 2014, 05:45:21 PM
You deserve a big fat scam tag and I can provide.
March 26, 2014, 05:42:31 PM
Investors Read this
So the only example shown on the home page of someone making profits is not even correct.
Quote from https://standardcoin.net/
"Example: 40 BTC is invested in total at the end of the Initial Price Valuation Phase. Investor A invested 10 BTC in this phase.
Investor A will receive: 10/40 * 100,000,000 = 25,000,000 STD
The AMC is now: 40 BTC.
The GER is computed as follow: 40/400,000,000 = 0.000000010 BTC (= 10 Satoshi)"
So I have just invested 10 BTC and now have 25,000,000 worth 10 Satoshi = 2.5 BTC..... :/
The math above shows all initial investors will take an immediate 75% hit on profits.
Also typo on https://standardcoin.net/
Quote from https://standardcoin.net/
"Investor 1 decided to take profit. They sell 100,000,000 STD back to the store at the current GER rate which is 40 satoshi
Investor 1 will receive 40 BTC.
AMC is STILL 160 BTC
GER is STILL 0.000000040 BTC (~ 40 satoshi)
Stored STD is: 50,000,000 + 100,000,000 = 150,000,000 STD
The AMC is not affeted by this selling activity.
GER still stays at 40 satoshi no matter what."
This is incorrect as shown above Invester 1 (or A) didn't get 100,000,000 STD they got 25,000,000 and at 40 Sat they now have 10BTC their initial investment.
"Example: 40 BTC is invested in total at the end of the Initial Price Valuation Phase. Investor A invested 10 BTC in this phase.
Investor A will receive: 10/40 * 100,000,000 = 25,000,000 STD
The AMC is now: 40 BTC.
The GER is computed as follow: 40/400,000,000 = 0.000000010 BTC (= 10 Satoshi)"
So I have just invested 10 BTC and now have 25,000,000 worth 10 Satoshi = 2.5 BTC..... :/
The math above shows all initial investors will take an immediate 75% hit on profits.
Also typo on https://standardcoin.net/
Quote from https://standardcoin.net/
"Investor 1 decided to take profit. They sell 100,000,000 STD back to the store at the current GER rate which is 40 satoshi
Investor 1 will receive 40 BTC.
AMC is STILL 160 BTC
GER is STILL 0.000000040 BTC (~ 40 satoshi)
Stored STD is: 50,000,000 + 100,000,000 = 150,000,000 STD
The AMC is not affeted by this selling activity.
GER still stays at 40 satoshi no matter what."
This is incorrect as shown above Invester 1 (or A) didn't get 100,000,000 STD they got 25,000,000 and at 40 Sat they now have 10BTC their initial investment.
So the only example shown on the home page of someone making profits is not even correct.
March 26, 2014, 05:23:14 PM
Private multipool sounds solid!
March 26, 2014, 05:07:21 PM
There it is xD
1250 BTC
1250 BTC
Slightly edited sorry, couldn't resist
March 26, 2014, 05:06:35 PM
Demo exchange is up: https://standardcoin.net/exchange
March 26, 2014, 05:06:03 PM
Selling, PM with offers:
March 26, 2014, 05:03:11 PM
There it is xD
March 26, 2014, 05:01:21 PM
Wait, the only way for STDs to increase in value is investors injecting more money into the private Exchange?
Actually, there is another way. But this hasn't been announced yet. Miners can help increasing the AMC by mining at the private MultiPool.There will be an official announcement about this soon.
Yeah, so they will practically be buying STD with other cryptos forcefully. So practically investors injecting money through other means xD
Not that multipools aren't legit, but when choosing payouts in a legit coin you know value is not guaranteed and you can lose (that's the difference between a ponzi and an investement, as stated before).
Where is that .jpg .... let me find it .....
March 26, 2014, 04:58:25 PM
Wait, the only way for STDs to increase in value is investors injecting more money into the private Exchange?
Actually, there is another way. But this hasn't been announced yet. Miners can help increasing the AMC by mining at the private MultiPool.There will be an official announcement about this soon.
March 26, 2014, 04:56:02 PM
Wait, the only way for STDs to increase in value is investors injecting more money into the private Exchange?
March 26, 2014, 04:48:41 PM
Nope, already answered in the edit, maybe you missed it (or pretending to):
[EDIT] and NO it's not the same for any coin, cause genuine coins' value CAN DROP. That's the fundamental difference between an investment and a Ponzi.
Stop a bit and reflect, no other explanation is needed really (again, if you are genuine).
I suggest you re-read Ponzi scheme definition on the wiki too.
[EDIT] and NO it's not the same for any coin, cause genuine coins' value CAN DROP. That's the fundamental difference between an investment and a Ponzi.
Stop a bit and reflect, no other explanation is needed really (again, if you are genuine).
I suggest you re-read Ponzi scheme definition on the wiki too.
March 26, 2014, 04:44:41 PM
Based on your theoretical example how many are going to be selling the 100 million all back at once assuming you're even correct. The chances of that are .0001% the same thing could happen to any coin. Its silly to talk in absolute values when humans are involved.
It doesn't matter all at a time or in small bits, the end result will be the same. You'll only be delaying the inevitable. 100 mil will be mined eventually and sold.
I'm really thinking to start my own ponzi if you are that easily fooled (assuming you are genuine and not a sockpuppet of the dev, of course).
But I'm too honest to do that.
[EDIT] and NO it's not the same for any coin, cause genuine coins' value CAN DROP. That's the fundamental difference between an investment and a Ponzi.
Ok, pointless to go on anyway xD
Looks like everything you and i believe in is nothing but a magical ponzi scheme, no I have no connection to the dev but here's some more fud to add to your heaping pile.
http://www.zdnet.com/bitcoin-confidence-game-is-a-ponzi-scheme-for-the-21st-century-7000027181/
March 26, 2014, 04:29:43 PM
Based on your theoretical example how many are going to be selling the 100 million all back at once assuming you're even correct. The chances of that are .0001% the same thing could happen to any coin. Its silly to talk in absolute values when humans are involved.
It doesn't matter all at a time or in small bits, the end result will be the same. You'll only be delaying the inevitable. 100 mil will be mined eventually and sold.
I'm really thinking to start my own ponzi if you are that easily fooled (assuming you are genuine and not a sockpuppet of the dev, of course).
But I'm too honest to do that.
[EDIT] and NO it's not the same for any coin, cause genuine coins' value CAN DROP. That's the fundamental difference between an investment and a Ponzi.
Ok, pointless to go on anyway xD
March 26, 2014, 04:25:10 PM
So you are basically using initial btc investment to buy back mined std.
If no new investors come to replenish btc reserves they'll eventually run out and someone will be left holding 0 value coins.
It's a blatant Ponzi.
If no new investors come to replenish btc reserves they'll eventually run out and someone will be left holding 0 value coins.
It's a blatant Ponzi.
No, each STD will worth at least at the GER. This is permanent.
The system won't need any new investor to replenish anything.
It just works.
Please read this post, I explained it there.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5877531
I read it, and my comment still holds true. Fixed initial btc reserve, more STD being produced = 0 btc left if more people sell than people are buying (as it is obvious with any market). Initial btc reserve can cover this for some time but not forever, unless new investors come (as with any Ponzi).
Blatant Ponzi and really cracks me up seeing so many people not figuring out for pages and pages xD
No amount of pseudo mathematical complexity can cover up this fundamental flaw, though you will get some noob confused enough to buy in, it seems.
Even all (Yes, ALL, not a lot not a ton, it's ALL) the coins are dumped there are always enough BTC to buy back at the GER because GER = AMC/MMS (MMS = Max money supply, Max money supply means that the maximun amount of coins that can exist).
Can you give me an example when the stored BTC can not cover all the dumped coins?
Should I, really?
Let's say initial investors put in 400 btc and got 100 mil STD. GER is 400/400'000'000=0.000001
Let's say no new investor come. 300mil std will be mined and sold, and you have to use those 400 btc to buy them at 0.000001 for a total of 300 btc considering a fixed GER for simplicity (actually it's even worse because those btc used to buy miners' dump count in for AMS, increasing GER so you'll be able to buy back far less than all 300 mils before running out of btc). Then, after the mining process is finished 100 btc will be left (actually not even that, see previous parenthesis, but let's simplify). If initial investors want to withdraw now, they can only get 100 btc out of 400 invested.
Another scenario: let's say 100mil mined STD are bought by new investors, not you. For simplicity let's say all in one go. That will net 100 more btc at 0.000001. So now AMS=500 and GER=500/400'000'000=0.00000125
Let's say no new investors from now on. 200 more mil are mined and sold at 0.00000125 each for a total of 250 btc (with the same simplification: let's not consider this will raise GER, cause this will make the rest of the explanation even worse anyway). Now initial investors+new investors want to convert their 200mil back to btc, but they can only get the 250 remaining btc, out of 500 total investment (again, for simplicity, let's say they sell all in one go and GER stays the same. Actually it should go higher according to the system, but it doesn't change anything: they'll just buy back those 250 remaining btc with less STD and be left with 250 btc and some mil of useless STD).
I believe you misunderstood the system.
Please take a look at the table at the bottom of: https://standardcoin.net/
There will only 100m of STD will be mined.
the 200m of STD that will go to future investors is already mined.
And another 100m of STD are offered to initial investors.
The BTC that is used to buy back miner's coin is not counted for anything, it does'nt increase or decrease AMC, it doesn't affect the GER.
The maximum amount of STD that can exist is: 400m
If AMC is 400 BTC. Everybody can sell their STD to the system at 100 satoshi per STD. and when all 400m is sold, no more STD is in circulation and all BTC are returned back to investors.
Nope, I understood perfectly: already mined or not, if no new investors come, you'll have to buy 100 mil from miners at 100 satoshi, for a total of 100 btc, reducing initial reserve to 300 btc. 100 btc lost for initial investors.
If new investors buy those 200 premined mil raising the GER, then sell back, they will get more btc then they invested (obvious, cause GER increased and their bought STD now are worth more), and again those extra btc will be taken from initial 400 btc reserve. Plus the 100 mil mined. Initial investors will be losing even more in this case.
It's really that simple.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=learning+basic+mathematics+online
No, I think you have a very precise idea (it's just too simple xD)
Very very precise idea Anyway my explanation is pretty clear (not even necessary) for everyone to judge for himself.
March 26, 2014, 04:23:50 PM
Yes he is, and it is.
When it's become pointless to discuss with someone, good old memes are here to save the day!
March 26, 2014, 04:23:34 PM
Btw. Here is a screenshot of the demo exchange. I will deploy it within 24 hours.
http://i.imgur.com/qp8FxY8.png
http://i.imgur.com/qp8FxY8.png
March 26, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
So you are basically using initial btc investment to buy back mined std.
If no new investors come to replenish btc reserves they'll eventually run out and someone will be left holding 0 value coins.
It's a blatant Ponzi.
If no new investors come to replenish btc reserves they'll eventually run out and someone will be left holding 0 value coins.
It's a blatant Ponzi.
No, each STD will worth at least at the GER. This is permanent.
The system won't need any new investor to replenish anything.
It just works.
Please read this post, I explained it there.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5877531
I read it, and my comment still holds true. Fixed initial btc reserve, more STD being produced = 0 btc left if more people sell than people are buying (as it is obvious with any market). Initial btc reserve can cover this for some time but not forever, unless new investors come (as with any Ponzi).
Blatant Ponzi and really cracks me up seeing so many people not figuring out for pages and pages xD
No amount of pseudo mathematical complexity can cover up this fundamental flaw, though you will get some noob confused enough to buy in, it seems.
Even all (Yes, ALL, not a lot not a ton, it's ALL) the coins are dumped there are always enough BTC to buy back at the GER because GER = AMC/MMS (MMS = Max money supply, Max money supply means that the maximun amount of coins that can exist).
Can you give me an example when the stored BTC can not cover all the dumped coins?
Should I, really?
Let's say initial investors put in 400 btc and got 100 mil STD. GER is 400/400'000'000=0.000001
Let's say no new investor come. 300mil std will be mined and sold, and you have to use those 400 btc to buy them at 0.000001 for a total of 300 btc considering a fixed GER for simplicity (actually it's even worse because those btc used to buy miners' dump count in for AMS, increasing GER so you'll be able to buy back far less than all 300 mils before running out of btc). Then, after the mining process is finished 100 btc will be left (actually not even that, see previous parenthesis, but let's simplify). If initial investors want to withdraw now, they can only get 100 btc out of 400 invested.
Another scenario: let's say 100mil mined STD are bought by new investors, not you. For simplicity let's say all in one go. That will net 100 more btc at 0.000001. So now AMS=500 and GER=500/400'000'000=0.00000125
Let's say no new investors from now on. 200 more mil are mined and sold at 0.00000125 each for a total of 250 btc (with the same simplification: let's not consider this will raise GER, cause this will make the rest of the explanation even worse anyway). Now initial investors+new investors want to convert their 200mil back to btc, but they can only get the 250 remaining btc, out of 500 total investment (again, for simplicity, let's say they sell all in one go and GER stays the same. Actually it should go higher according to the system, but it doesn't change anything: they'll just buy back those 250 remaining btc with less STD and be left with 250 btc and some mil of useless STD).
I believe you misunderstood the system.
Please take a look at the table at the bottom of: https://standardcoin.net/
There will only 100m of STD will be mined.
the 200m of STD that will go to future investors is already mined.
And another 100m of STD are offered to initial investors.
The BTC that is used to buy back miner's coin is not counted for anything, it does'nt increase or decrease AMC, it doesn't affect the GER.
The maximum amount of STD that can exist is: 400m
If AMC is 400 BTC. Everybody can sell their STD to the system at 100 satoshi per STD. and when all 400m is sold, no more STD is in circulation and all BTC are returned back to investors.
Nope, I understood perfectly: already mined or not, if no new investors come, you'll have to buy 100 mil from miners at 100 satoshi, for a total of 100 btc, reducing initial reserve to 300 btc. 100 btc lost for initial investors.
If new investors buy those 200 premined mil raising the GER, then sell back, they will get more btc then they invested (obvious, cause GER increased and their bought STD now are worth more), and again those extra btc will be taken from initial 400 btc reserve. Plus the 100 mil mined. Initial investors will be losing even more in this case.
It's really that simple.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=learning+basic+mathematics+online
March 26, 2014, 04:15:29 PM
Based on your theoretical example how many are going to be selling the 100 million all back at once assuming you're even correct. The chances of that are .0001% the same thing could happen to any coin. Its silly to talk in absolute values when humans are involved.
March 26, 2014, 04:10:55 PM
Precisely.
March 26, 2014, 04:06:35 PM
So you are basically using initial btc investment to buy back mined std.
If no new investors come to replenish btc reserves they'll eventually run out and someone will be left holding 0 value coins.
It's a blatant Ponzi.
If no new investors come to replenish btc reserves they'll eventually run out and someone will be left holding 0 value coins.
It's a blatant Ponzi.
No, each STD will worth at least at the GER. This is permanent.
The system won't need any new investor to replenish anything.
It just works.
Please read this post, I explained it there.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5877531
I read it, and my comment still holds true. Fixed initial btc reserve, more STD being produced = 0 btc left if more people sell than people are buying (as it is obvious with any market). Initial btc reserve can cover this for some time but not forever, unless new investors come (as with any Ponzi).
Blatant Ponzi and really cracks me up seeing so many people not figuring out for pages and pages xD
No amount of pseudo mathematical complexity can cover up this fundamental flaw, though you will get some noob confused enough to buy in, it seems.
Even all (Yes, ALL, not a lot not a ton, it's ALL) the coins are dumped there are always enough BTC to buy back at the GER because GER = AMC/MMS (MMS = Max money supply, Max money supply means that the maximun amount of coins that can exist).
Can you give me an example when the stored BTC can not cover all the dumped coins?
Should I, really?
Let's say initial investors put in 400 btc and got 100 mil STD. GER is 400/400'000'000=0.000001
Let's say no new investor come. 300mil std will be mined and sold, and you have to use those 400 btc to buy them at 0.000001 for a total of 300 btc considering a fixed GER for simplicity (actually it's even worse because those btc used to buy miners' dump count in for AMS, increasing GER so you'll be able to buy back far less than all 300 mils before running out of btc). Then, after the mining process is finished 100 btc will be left (actually not even that, see previous parenthesis, but let's simplify). If initial investors want to withdraw now, they can only get 100 btc out of 400 invested.
Another scenario: let's say 100mil mined STD are bought by new investors, not you. For simplicity let's say all in one go. That will net 100 more btc at 0.000001. So now AMS=500 and GER=500/400'000'000=0.00000125
Let's say no new investors from now on. 200 more mil are mined and sold at 0.00000125 each for a total of 250 btc (with the same simplification: let's not consider this will raise GER, cause this will make the rest of the explanation even worse anyway). Now initial investors+new investors want to convert their 200mil back to btc, but they can only get the 250 remaining btc, out of 500 total investment (again, for simplicity, let's say they sell all in one go and GER stays the same. Actually it should go higher according to the system, but it doesn't change anything: they'll just buy back those 250 remaining btc with less STD and be left with 250 btc and some mil of useless STD).
I believe you misunderstood the system.
Please take a look at the table at the bottom of: https://standardcoin.net/
There will only 100m of STD will be mined.
the 200m of STD that will go to future investors is already mined.
And another 100m of STD are offered to initial investors.
The BTC that is used to buy back miner's coin is not counted for anything, it does'nt increase or decrease AMC, it doesn't affect the GER.
The maximum amount of STD that can exist is: 400m
If AMC is 400 BTC. Everybody can sell their STD to the system at 100 satoshi per STD. and when all 400m is sold, no more STD is in circulation and all BTC are returned back to investors.
Nope, I understood perfectly: already mined or not, if no new investors come, you'll have to buy 100 mil from miners at 100 satoshi, for a total of 100 btc, reducing initial reserve to 300 btc. 100 btc lost for initial investors.
If new investors buy those 200 premined mil raising the GER, then sell back, they will get more btc then they invested (obvious, cause GER increased and their bought STD now are worth more), and again those extra btc will be taken from initial 400 btc reserve. Plus the 100 mil mined. Initial investors will be losing even more in this case.
It's really that simple.
[EDIT] Adding more evidence for reference, from another reply of mine
From website
"Current AMC is 40 BTC. Total stored STD for new investors is: 200,000,000 (50% coins of network). Investor 2 invests 40 BTC.
AMC is now increased to 80 BTC.
Investor 2 will receive: (40/AMC * stored STD) = 40/80 * 200,000,000 = 100,000,000 STD
The new GER is: GER = AMC/MMS = 80/400,000,000 = 0.000000020 BTC (~ 20 satoshi)." (<-- there is 1 more zero than necessary, but it's a website typo)
So investor 2 just bought 100 mil STD for 40 btc and now the GER is 20 satoshi, so he can sell them back for 100mil*20satoshi=20 btc and the value will stay like that if no new investors come, so investor 2 just INSTANTLY LOST 20 BTC (went to initial investors, practically).
Initial investors are also losing money: they get 100mil STD paying 40 btc (again, from website example) but the GER will be 10 satoshi initially, so their 100 mil will be worth only 10 btc if no new investor come.
So older investors can recover their initial loss and make a profit if new investors keep coming, while more recent investors will be left holding the bag when old investors sell back, while op is maintaining nobody can lose. It's the definition of ponzi.
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