Anonymity VS tracing transactions. | Bitcointalksearch.org

hv_

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Quote from: Dabs on October 18, 2019, 11:09:06 AM

In bitcoin, there are no such things as "illegal transactions". If they don't follow consensus rules, they simply get rejected by nodes and miners and never get included in a block. But I don't think that's what you meant. Bitcoin is legal agnostic, it follows its own rules based on protocol and consensus and just doesn't care if something is considered legal or illegal outside of the blockchain.

If there is a particular transaction that any other entity wants to link to you, the burden of proof is on them. If you submitted your information to an exchange because of KYC and that transaction can be linked to your account, ... that's it. But if the transaction goes through several hops and ends up in some CoinJoin or seemingly stuck somewhere else (like a mixer does), with no connection to you, no one can prove anything.

Software/ protocols do have a purpose that is implemented into code and its consensus enforcing rules.

Such purpose can be relevant for legal terms.

Like I d say monero is designed to hide financial transactions from regulators

Dabs

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In bitcoin, there are no such things as "illegal transactions". If they don't follow consensus rules, they simply get rejected by nodes and miners and never get included in a block. But I don't think that's what you meant. Bitcoin is legal agnostic, it follows its own rules based on protocol and consensus and just doesn't care if something is considered legal or illegal outside of the blockchain.

If there is a particular transaction that any other entity wants to link to you, the burden of proof is on them. If you submitted your information to an exchange because of KYC and that transaction can be linked to your account, ... that's it. But if the transaction goes through several hops and ends up in some CoinJoin or seemingly stuck somewhere else (like a mixer does), with no connection to you, no one can prove anything.

ardentvolcanoes

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Quote from: Capt00 on October 18, 2019, 11:03:01 AM

One of the reasons why bitcoin is loved by many is it's anonymity, a lot want to be anonymous as to protect there personal information aside from that performing KYC is quite complicated at times and it has risk of getting hacked by hackers or scammers. If we really look at bitcoin at a larger scale, we can see that bitcoin provides more good benefits and security but the only problem is that not all people understand it and that they don't trust bitcoin enough because of all this fraud going on using bitcoin, scammers seems to have taken advantage of the anonymity of bitcoin transactions to defraud people. Anyways, IMO, I would still fo with being anonymous rather than tracing transactions.

Still lack of ideas from how bitcoin will be used for the betterment of payment services. There's a lot of differences in regards to protection matters, those who wanted to be kept anonymous will stand not to provide any KYC for personal reasons but those who are favor of having regulations to make sure that this system will not be use for illegal activities will stand for regulated system.

Capt00

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One of the reasons why bitcoin is loved by many is it's anonymity, a lot want to be anonymous as to protect there personal information aside from that performing KYC is quite complicated at times and it has risk of getting hacked by hackers or scammers. If we really look at bitcoin at a larger scale, we can see that bitcoin provides more good benefits and security but the only problem is that not all people understand it and that they don't trust bitcoin enough because of all this fraud going on using bitcoin, scammers seems to have taken advantage of the anonymity of bitcoin transactions to defraud people. Anyways, IMO, I would still fo with being anonymous rather than tracing transactions.

Apes

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because many of them assume bitcoin transactions are used for crime, money laundering and terrorist financing. I think if transactions under 1 BTC users expect btc to remain anonymous, and if the transaction in 1 day exceeds 1 BTC it required KYC. in both of transaction transparency is not needed to keep privacy controled.

superman25

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Definitely I bet on privacy, because the Bitcoin system is quite safe if appropriate measures are taken, I do not agree that you want to remove the main spirit of independence to cryptocurrencies only by a few criminals, it has also been proven which is the cash which moves the gears of everything illegal.

James1970

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I prefer anonymous projects like Monero. I dont like this idea of transparency of transactions

FlightyPouch

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Quote from: jarhed on October 18, 2019, 09:14:38 AM

Quote from: bounceback on October 13, 2019, 11:50:55 PM

if I would definitely choose who to discuss user privacy because in bitcoin itself we really need privacy and security like using a bitcoin wallet then with privacy maybe our bitcoin cannot be stolen or used by people who are not responsible, while differences in currencies fiat and digital currency, fiat currency is the currency that is controlled by the government and the central bank while the digital currency is the only currency decentralized by the blockchain.

Confidentiality and anonymity will not be widely used in the future in the cryptocurrency market. I think that on the contrary, 90% will be only visible transactions in the field of cryptocurrencies.

How can you say that? In the future, we will be dealing with pieces of information straight out of the internet. Blockchain will be a great asset in that future since we will be able to be anonymous in the world that will be full of stalkers, scammers, hackers and maybe a group of people will emerge and will be only recognized in that new era.

Ucy

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Quote from: teosanru on October 12, 2019, 09:58:09 AM

I think anonymity in the lives of human being is a myth altogether. We don't have any anonymity in our lives and we won't even have it anywhere in the near future. Since forever governments are tracing us maybe for the good. I mean I am not against Bitcoin but think of it practically if there is a big nuclear blast deal which takes place in Bitcoin as a means of payment. Such a thing can be untraceable for authorities therefore if over looked can be executed which poses a serious threat to national security. I think if there is complete anonymity every psycho fanatic would be doing whatever he likes with the world which is not only weird but also too dangerous.

People stay anonymous for different reasons. It either for right or wrong reasons or for no reason at all. If anonymity wasn't necessary, both good and bad people would not have tolerated it. There is definitely reasons why many sane minds would want to be anonymous.

If you want the desires by people for anonymity to vanish completely, let secrecy and evil vanish completely. Nothing on earth should ever be a secret. And evil should never exists.

jarhed

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Quote from: bounceback on October 13, 2019, 11:50:55 PM

if I would definitely choose who to discuss user privacy because in bitcoin itself we really need privacy and security like using a bitcoin wallet then with privacy maybe our bitcoin cannot be stolen or used by people who are not responsible, while differences in currencies fiat and digital currency, fiat currency is the currency that is controlled by the government and the central bank while the digital currency is the only currency decentralized by the blockchain.

Confidentiality and anonymity will not be widely used in the future in the cryptocurrency market. I think that on the contrary, 90% will be only visible transactions in the field of cryptocurrencies.

bounceback

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if I would definitely choose who to discuss user privacy because in bitcoin itself we really need privacy and security like using a bitcoin wallet then with privacy maybe our bitcoin cannot be stolen or used by people who are not responsible, while differences in currencies fiat and digital currency, fiat currency is the currency that is controlled by the government and the central bank while the digital currency is the only currency decentralized by the blockchain.

kayvie

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Quote from: alexsandria on October 13, 2019, 02:02:09 PM

So you're basically comparing fiat over bitcoin. My answer is I think it depends. Anonymity of bitcoin (pseudoanonimity, I mean), is good because you are not being monitored yet you cannot get back your money even you have done a mistake. Tracing transactions of fiat, you can be tracked yet you can get your money back. It depends on the situation to decide what's better.

That is the difference between cryptocurrency and fiat. Comparing them is unnecessary. They are both good and both of them give us what we need.
Cryptocurrency is made to give anonymity to its users, it has a limited supply and irreversible transactions. While fiat has more function and it is used in our daily life.

timerland

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Quote from: hv_ on October 12, 2019, 11:05:10 AM

First of all, there will be never true anonymity, no chance

Second, who does profit most from such anonymity?

Sure, not all the average Joes,.

Why than do such an effort to convince for such 'feature'?

Hint: A feature that needs convincing, is no ( like SegShit ...)

Satoshi wanted IP to IP ...

Depends on what you think true anonymity is, if you are going to extremes, of course the VPN has your IP, of course the person your sending the payment to knows your address, etc, I don't think that's a subject that's even worth addressing.

Tracing transactions are probably better in my opinion - extremists will always be able to use dash, xmr, and they won't bother with BTC.

boltz

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Bitcoin was created to be decentralize by Nakamoto and I do think this is the basic principle that makes Bitcoin strong but recently the Governments don't like this idea so they start to regulate it ( which is fine for some cases ) in order to control it and I have nothing against it. However , anonymity of bitcoin transactions should remain like the way they are now , you can go on blockchain.io and verify them but you must never know who sends and receive those coins. Tracing transaction should be possible only by federal agencies and not by the public as this will increase for sure the number of crimes towards Bitcoin holders.

crossabdd

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

I personally actually like transactions that are tracked. but that will raise a lot of questions for everyone. for example, I send large amounts of money. and tracked. it will make the legal entity suspicious and check all my assets. so prefer an unknown transaction. it's more privacy and safer. although it is actually widely used for crime. due to an unknown transaction. and the difference between bitcoin and fiat is decentralization and centralization. that's a real and big difference.

LUCKMCFLY

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Anonymity is becoming increasingly difficult, privacy is beginning to end, many Exchanges are demanding KYC, the only way to have some anonymity is through deepweb where there are exchanges that through some algorithms make changes buying from Monero making it increasingly difficult to track.

FIAT money is easily traceable, in fact when there are transactions with very high amounts, banks usually block to look for the origin of the funds and people must declare, something very different from crypto because a lot of money is handled but it is easily traceable. , but still I think it is much better to operate with crypto, they do not block your balance. Already by losing control of third parties I think it is an excellent advantage.

There are some projects that are being developed so that through a Lateral blockchain they pass the Bitcoin and it is impossible to track, they do it anonymously before the blockchain, tests are being done but, more time is needed to be able to develop it.

alexsandria

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So you're basically comparing fiat over bitcoin. My answer is I think it depends. Anonymity of bitcoin (pseudoanonimity, I mean), is good because you are not being monitored yet you cannot get back your money even you have done a mistake. Tracing transactions of fiat, you can be tracked yet you can get your money back. It depends on the situation to decide what's better.

Youghoor

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

The content of your post doesn't really match with the title of your post. are you trying to compare anonymity with tracing transations or the difference between bitcoin and fiat or the legal and illegal issues with bitcoin concerning what people thing about bitcoin ? I'm confused trying to understand what you wanted to share here...

hv_

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First of all, there will be never true anonymity, no chance

Second, who does profit most from such anonymity?

Sure, not all the average Joes,.

Why than do such an effort to convince for such 'feature'?

Hint: A feature that needs convincing, is no ( like SegShit ...)

Satoshi wanted IP to IP ...

minersday

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.

People always make allegations and accusations regarding the use of Bitcoin for illegal transactions with no evidence to back them. Bitcoin is not all that anonymous like people really think it is. Once all the transactions made on the blockchain network can be traced, it is not anonymous. Users on the bitcoin network do not really have privacy.

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