Anonymity VS tracing transactions. | Bitcointalksearch.org

hv_

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Quote from: Dabs on October 18, 2019, 11:09:06 AM

In bitcoin, there are no such things as "illegal transactions". If they don't follow consensus rules, they simply get rejected by nodes and miners and never get included in a block. But I don't think that's what you meant. Bitcoin is legal agnostic, it follows its own rules based on protocol and consensus and just doesn't care if something is considered legal or illegal outside of the blockchain.

If there is a particular transaction that any other entity wants to link to you, the burden of proof is on them. If you submitted your information to an exchange because of KYC and that transaction can be linked to your account, ... that's it. But if the transaction goes through several hops and ends up in some CoinJoin or seemingly stuck somewhere else (like a mixer does), with no connection to you, no one can prove anything.

Software/ protocols do have a purpose that is implemented into code and its consensus enforcing rules.

Such purpose can be relevant for legal terms.

Like I d say monero is designed to hide financial transactions from regulators

Dabs

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In bitcoin, there are no such things as "illegal transactions". If they don't follow consensus rules, they simply get rejected by nodes and miners and never get included in a block. But I don't think that's what you meant. Bitcoin is legal agnostic, it follows its own rules based on protocol and consensus and just doesn't care if something is considered legal or illegal outside of the blockchain.

If there is a particular transaction that any other entity wants to link to you, the burden of proof is on them. If you submitted your information to an exchange because of KYC and that transaction can be linked to your account, ... that's it. But if the transaction goes through several hops and ends up in some CoinJoin or seemingly stuck somewhere else (like a mixer does), with no connection to you, no one can prove anything.

ardentvolcanoes

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Quote from: Capt00 on October 18, 2019, 11:03:01 AM

One of the reasons why bitcoin is loved by many is it's anonymity, a lot want to be anonymous as to protect there personal information aside from that performing KYC is quite complicated at times and it has risk of getting hacked by hackers or scammers. If we really look at bitcoin at a larger scale, we can see that bitcoin provides more good benefits and security but the only problem is that not all people understand it and that they don't trust bitcoin enough because of all this fraud going on using bitcoin, scammers seems to have taken advantage of the anonymity of bitcoin transactions to defraud people. Anyways, IMO, I would still fo with being anonymous rather than tracing transactions.

Still lack of ideas from how bitcoin will be used for the betterment of payment services. There's a lot of differences in regards to protection matters, those who wanted to be kept anonymous will stand not to provide any KYC for personal reasons but those who are favor of having regulations to make sure that this system will not be use for illegal activities will stand for regulated system.

Capt00

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One of the reasons why bitcoin is loved by many is it's anonymity, a lot want to be anonymous as to protect there personal information aside from that performing KYC is quite complicated at times and it has risk of getting hacked by hackers or scammers. If we really look at bitcoin at a larger scale, we can see that bitcoin provides more good benefits and security but the only problem is that not all people understand it and that they don't trust bitcoin enough because of all this fraud going on using bitcoin, scammers seems to have taken advantage of the anonymity of bitcoin transactions to defraud people. Anyways, IMO, I would still fo with being anonymous rather than tracing transactions.

Apes

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because many of them assume bitcoin transactions are used for crime, money laundering and terrorist financing. I think if transactions under 1 BTC users expect btc to remain anonymous, and if the transaction in 1 day exceeds 1 BTC it required KYC. in both of transaction transparency is not needed to keep privacy controled.

superman25

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Definitely I bet on privacy, because the Bitcoin system is quite safe if appropriate measures are taken, I do not agree that you want to remove the main spirit of independence to cryptocurrencies only by a few criminals, it has also been proven which is the cash which moves the gears of everything illegal.

James1970

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I prefer anonymous projects like Monero. I dont like this idea of transparency of transactions

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Quote from: jarhed on October 18, 2019, 09:14:38 AM

Quote from: bounceback on October 13, 2019, 11:50:55 PM

if I would definitely choose who to discuss user privacy because in bitcoin itself we really need privacy and security like using a bitcoin wallet then with privacy maybe our bitcoin cannot be stolen or used by people who are not responsible, while differences in currencies fiat and digital currency, fiat currency is the currency that is controlled by the government and the central bank while the digital currency is the only currency decentralized by the blockchain.

Confidentiality and anonymity will not be widely used in the future in the cryptocurrency market. I think that on the contrary, 90% will be only visible transactions in the field of cryptocurrencies.

How can you say that? In the future, we will be dealing with pieces of information straight out of the internet. Blockchain will be a great asset in that future since we will be able to be anonymous in the world that will be full of stalkers, scammers, hackers and maybe a group of people will emerge and will be only recognized in that new era.

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Quote from: teosanru on October 12, 2019, 09:58:09 AM

I think anonymity in the lives of human being is a myth altogether. We don't have any anonymity in our lives and we won't even have it anywhere in the near future. Since forever governments are tracing us maybe for the good. I mean I am not against Bitcoin but think of it practically if there is a big nuclear blast deal which takes place in Bitcoin as a means of payment. Such a thing can be untraceable for authorities therefore if over looked can be executed which poses a serious threat to national security. I think if there is complete anonymity every psycho fanatic would be doing whatever he likes with the world which is not only weird but also too dangerous.

People stay anonymous for different reasons. It either for right or wrong reasons or for no reason at all. If anonymity wasn't necessary, both good and bad people would not have tolerated it. There is definitely reasons why many sane minds would want to be anonymous.

If you want the desires by people for anonymity to vanish completely, let secrecy and evil vanish completely. Nothing on earth should ever be a secret. And evil should never exists.

jarhed

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Quote from: bounceback on October 13, 2019, 11:50:55 PM

if I would definitely choose who to discuss user privacy because in bitcoin itself we really need privacy and security like using a bitcoin wallet then with privacy maybe our bitcoin cannot be stolen or used by people who are not responsible, while differences in currencies fiat and digital currency, fiat currency is the currency that is controlled by the government and the central bank while the digital currency is the only currency decentralized by the blockchain.

Confidentiality and anonymity will not be widely used in the future in the cryptocurrency market. I think that on the contrary, 90% will be only visible transactions in the field of cryptocurrencies.

bounceback

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if I would definitely choose who to discuss user privacy because in bitcoin itself we really need privacy and security like using a bitcoin wallet then with privacy maybe our bitcoin cannot be stolen or used by people who are not responsible, while differences in currencies fiat and digital currency, fiat currency is the currency that is controlled by the government and the central bank while the digital currency is the only currency decentralized by the blockchain.

kayvie

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Quote from: alexsandria on October 13, 2019, 02:02:09 PM

So you're basically comparing fiat over bitcoin. My answer is I think it depends. Anonymity of bitcoin (pseudoanonimity, I mean), is good because you are not being monitored yet you cannot get back your money even you have done a mistake. Tracing transactions of fiat, you can be tracked yet you can get your money back. It depends on the situation to decide what's better.

That is the difference between cryptocurrency and fiat. Comparing them is unnecessary. They are both good and both of them give us what we need.
Cryptocurrency is made to give anonymity to its users, it has a limited supply and irreversible transactions. While fiat has more function and it is used in our daily life.

timerland

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Quote from: hv_ on October 12, 2019, 11:05:10 AM

First of all, there will be never true anonymity, no chance

Second, who does profit most from such anonymity?

Sure, not all the average Joes,.

Why than do such an effort to convince for such 'feature'?

Hint: A feature that needs convincing, is no ( like SegShit ...)

Satoshi wanted IP to IP ...

Depends on what you think true anonymity is, if you are going to extremes, of course the VPN has your IP, of course the person your sending the payment to knows your address, etc, I don't think that's a subject that's even worth addressing.

Tracing transactions are probably better in my opinion - extremists will always be able to use dash, xmr, and they won't bother with BTC.

boltz

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Bitcoin was created to be decentralize by Nakamoto and I do think this is the basic principle that makes Bitcoin strong but recently the Governments don't like this idea so they start to regulate it ( which is fine for some cases ) in order to control it and I have nothing against it. However , anonymity of bitcoin transactions should remain like the way they are now , you can go on blockchain.io and verify them but you must never know who sends and receive those coins. Tracing transaction should be possible only by federal agencies and not by the public as this will increase for sure the number of crimes towards Bitcoin holders.

crossabdd

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

I personally actually like transactions that are tracked. but that will raise a lot of questions for everyone. for example, I send large amounts of money. and tracked. it will make the legal entity suspicious and check all my assets. so prefer an unknown transaction. it's more privacy and safer. although it is actually widely used for crime. due to an unknown transaction. and the difference between bitcoin and fiat is decentralization and centralization. that's a real and big difference.

LUCKMCFLY

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Anonymity is becoming increasingly difficult, privacy is beginning to end, many Exchanges are demanding KYC, the only way to have some anonymity is through deepweb where there are exchanges that through some algorithms make changes buying from Monero making it increasingly difficult to track.

FIAT money is easily traceable, in fact when there are transactions with very high amounts, banks usually block to look for the origin of the funds and people must declare, something very different from crypto because a lot of money is handled but it is easily traceable. , but still I think it is much better to operate with crypto, they do not block your balance. Already by losing control of third parties I think it is an excellent advantage.

There are some projects that are being developed so that through a Lateral blockchain they pass the Bitcoin and it is impossible to track, they do it anonymously before the blockchain, tests are being done but, more time is needed to be able to develop it.

alexsandria

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So you're basically comparing fiat over bitcoin. My answer is I think it depends. Anonymity of bitcoin (pseudoanonimity, I mean), is good because you are not being monitored yet you cannot get back your money even you have done a mistake. Tracing transactions of fiat, you can be tracked yet you can get your money back. It depends on the situation to decide what's better.

Youghoor

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

The content of your post doesn't really match with the title of your post. are you trying to compare anonymity with tracing transations or the difference between bitcoin and fiat or the legal and illegal issues with bitcoin concerning what people thing about bitcoin ? I'm confused trying to understand what you wanted to share here...

hv_

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First of all, there will be never true anonymity, no chance

Second, who does profit most from such anonymity?

Sure, not all the average Joes,.

Why than do such an effort to convince for such 'feature'?

Hint: A feature that needs convincing, is no ( like SegShit ...)

Satoshi wanted IP to IP ...

minersday

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.

People always make allegations and accusations regarding the use of Bitcoin for illegal transactions with no evidence to back them. Bitcoin is not all that anonymous like people really think it is. Once all the transactions made on the blockchain network can be traced, it is not anonymous. Users on the bitcoin network do not really have privacy.

kayvie

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Quote from: agentx44 on October 02, 2019, 06:20:17 AM

Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

The anonymity is way better than other things such as getting back the bitcoin stolen from the real owner. You should take great precaution on your transactions, if bitcoin does not grant us anonymity, then plenty of the users will be in trouble for sure. It is used in some illegal activities and I think that is inevitable but for some who just use it as an investment, it is better if we stay unharmed.

Anonymity in the sense of cryptocurrency gives us protection and let us to do things at our own will such as gambling, including this is the illegal activities.
Most cases here is hacking or scam, which is the risk of being anonymous, tracking them will be impossible.
Being responsible will avoid this risk which will leave us only the anonymity of crypto.

teosanru

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I think anonymity in the lives of human being is a myth altogether. We don't have any anonymity in our lives and we won't even have it anywhere in the near future. Since forever governments are tracing us maybe for the good. I mean I am not against Bitcoin but think of it practically if there is a big nuclear blast deal which takes place in Bitcoin as a means of payment. Such a thing can be untraceable for authorities therefore if over looked can be executed which poses a serious threat to national security. I think if there is complete anonymity every psycho fanatic would be doing whatever he likes with the world which is not only weird but also too dangerous.

jarhed

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Quote from: aces777 on October 02, 2019, 07:27:42 AM

It is funny how so many people their to highlight that the anonymity of bitcoin transactions promotes terrorism and criminality when these have been ongoing even before the existence of cryptocurrencies. The government just wants to be in control of these transactions, and the fact that they can not regulate crypto transactions gets them on their feet, otherwise, I do not see why this is a major issue.

There is no anonymity in cryptocurrencies, all this is an illusion for most users in this market. No more than 2% of all transactions have an anonymous structure. Most of these transactions are cryptocurrency theft.

aces777

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It is funny how so many people their to highlight that the anonymity of bitcoin transactions promotes terrorism and criminality when these have been ongoing even before the existence of cryptocurrencies. The government just wants to be in control of these transactions, and the fact that they can not regulate crypto transactions gets them on their feet, otherwise, I do not see why this is a major issue.

XCANA

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The problem shouldn't be that; bitcoin cannot be trace and its been used by criminally minded individuals to carryout their hilarious act. Those who have these opinion against bitcoin forget that, even the fiats are the most used currency when it come to criminality. The anonymity provided by bitcoin to it holders causes the government a sleepless night and they tend to frustrate the entire process with their regulations.

blckhawk

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All things comes with risks or drawbacks. It's true that having anonimity would also mean easier grounds for illegal activities to happen. One must be sacrificed to gain another.

I would choose anonimity over tracing transactions because that's the main idea that started Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, to have a transparent, anonymous way of handling transactions. That's also what makes cryptocurrency unique to fiat. There is no governing bodies, no regulations, no restrictions and manipulation.

Shenzou

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For me the whole reason why i like bitcoin is because of the anonymity, to be able to do whatever you want with your money without having the government set you how much and how you spend it or some bank blocking your account for no reason is what make bitcoin so good and it is why it was met by a lot of support from a lot of people, and if you think that tracing you transaction is a good thing than why are you using bitcoin while you can just use paypal or regular cc.

agentx44

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

The anonymity is way better than other things such as getting back the bitcoin stolen from the real owner. You should take great precaution on your transactions, if bitcoin does not grant us anonymity, then plenty of the users will be in trouble for sure. It is used in some illegal activities and I think that is inevitable but for some who just use it as an investment, it is better if we stay unharmed.

Kyraishi

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Anoymity any day - people who get hacked/bitcoins stolen off them can easily avoid this by being smarter with their money, you don't need to be a genius to not send money to scammers, most of it happens when people are way to greedy.

Even if your funds are stolen in fiat (which I'm assuming is your comparision for this thread, it'll still be pretty hard to get the money back, scammers usually are pretty smart with this and won't allow transactions to get reverted).

Wexnident

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

I would naturally choose anonymity. However, because of constant improvement, anonymity wont really cover all the tracks of trading and one way or another, people could find transactions and can be tracked to the said owners. In the end, innovation of the current system would someway or another lead to loss of the anonymity of exchanges.

Now the difference between bitcoin and fiat.
Bitcoin is a coin made by computers and codes and is a digital way of exchange. Fiat on the other hand is controlled and produced by the government and is a physical way of exchange. Bitcoin is very volatile and changes depending on the amount of coins in the market while fiat changes based on the supply and demand of the world.

Ozero

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

The issue of anonymity in cryptocurrency will be under the close attention of states and the public for a long time to come. This is a very sensitive issue and it requires a balanced decision. Here you need to work out the average optimal solution. Anonymity will in any case remain in transactions between people. The states here simply cannot do anything. In other cases, in my opinion, anonymity should be with small amounts of transactions, and transactions with large amounts should have a different degree of deprivation of this anonymity. A good decision was made in this regard in the FATF recommendations of June 21 this year. They propose that persons sending transactions in excess of one thousand euros undergo KYC checks, and transactions in the amount of over 15,000 euros are reported to the relevant state authorities for control by the exchange. States must introduce such rules throughout the year in their domestic law.

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Quote from: salty on August 30, 2019, 12:34:01 AM

For me, the important factor is still confidentiality.And it doesn't mean that I'm afraid of anything,just anonymity gives the right to feel independent of anyone.

Exactly. But, unfortunately, every year, the cryptocurrency is becoming less anonymous

The main reason why most of us embrace crypto technology is because of the anonymity of it, but then we have already lost it because many of our transactions can now be opened to the government through the many KYC that we have submitted into several exchanges and projects that has forced us to do it.

I will say that we have already been stripped off of the anonymity and there is no point holding on to it right now, so I would rather go for traced transaction and be in a system where it would be peaceful for me to transact without thinking that someone will come and still my money away, at least if our transaction is able to be traced using some information’s with people. Then scammers will no longer have any single chance.

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

If we compare anonimity of bitcoin and fiat then it is certainly different. In term of the concept of transactions of both currency, anonimity of bitcoin looks better because botcoin transaction do not use third parties (bank and etc.) which means that we do not need to give our identities to third party and do not need to go through other complicated and long-winded process. But on the other hand blockchain which is a technology that empower bitcoin is a large database chain that records all bitcoin transaction. Law enforcement can still carry out their duties to track people even though the currency that be used by those people is bitcoin.

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Quote from: rodel caling on August 31, 2019, 05:52:00 PM

The difference of the bitcoin between fiat is.
Firstly bitcoin is digital crypto currency(digital money) stored at the smart or online wallet and can use it anywhere sending funds to the loves.
But holding of bitcoin is very risky because bitcoin is volatile currency they move without controling by any body they moves itself depends on the demands in the market unlike fiat is control by the government their value in the market depends on theneed of the country to be printed. Unlike bitcoin need to mining.

Obviously, the quicky way to differentiate bitcoin from fiat is that fiat is backed up and controlled by the government while bitcoin on the other hand is not backed up or controlled by any government, it is decentralized. Government will be able to track your fiat transactions while in bitcoin, they will be having a hard time doing that.

rodel caling

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what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?
[/quote]

The difference of the bitcoin between fiat is.
Firstly bitcoin is digital crypto currency(digital money) stored at the smart or online wallet and can use it anywhere sending funds to the loves.
But holding of bitcoin is very risky because bitcoin is volatile currency they move without controling by any body they moves itself depends on the demands in the market unlike fiat is control by the government their value in the market depends on theneed of the country to be printed. Unlike bitcoin need to mining.

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Quote from: thesmallgod on August 31, 2019, 01:23:38 PM

I think there is a little missed up here. When we talk about anonymity, it means the transaction can not be traced to a real identity. The fact that a coin is stolen and retrieved that doesn't mean it can not be returned because bitcoin is anonymous. It can be returned because everyone that the coin is stolen from have an address which can be verified through the blockchain. So if you want to send back stolen fund then you send to those addresses that the coin was initially stolen from. Therefore anonymity in crypto is defined within identity context

A person who steal some bitcoins, won't return those bitcoins to the real owner unless the identity is revealed and he/she is forced to return the bitcoins.
I know returning if bitcoins to the real owner is theoretically possible. I meant, if transactions are anonymous returning of bitcoins is impossible. Because a person who steal the bitcoins, won't return them without any force.

1Referee

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Quote from: yazher on August 30, 2019, 06:55:32 AM

I'll admit that using cryptocurrencies will improve our privacy. because while using it they have a hard time tracing our real total assets and if we know how to live in a simple way they may not know that we have some big cash with us.

As long as you keep buying your coins from a centralized exchange, governments very likely will find out how many coins you bought and roughly still have, and based on that make a calculation as to how much tax you owe them. Every centralized service that you have used throughout the years keeps a record of your purchases, trades, withdrawals, deposits, etc.

Governments are like hyenas, they smell a prey from a far distance and will do everything they can to use all your past crypto activities against you. They know much more about you than you think. Wink

thesmallgod

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I think there is a little missed up here. When we talk about anonymity, it means the transaction can not be traced to a real identity. The fact that a coin is stolen and retrieved that doesn't mean it can not be returned because bitcoin is anonymous. It can be returned because everyone that the coin is stolen from have an address which can be verified through the blockchain. So if you want to send back stolen fund then you send to those addresses that the coin was initially stolen from. Therefore anonymity in crypto is defined within identity context

gabbie2010

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

I believed the anonymity feature of bitcoin transactions is most important and that particular feature endears it to more users, in recent times people are more concerned with protecting their identities of course their privacy is paramount to them while trying to do away with a third party eg banks which in most cases demands for identities in the name of KYC while the other aspect is the most unfortunate aspect of transacting bitcoin using anonymity to for illegal transactions which is absolutely a bad precedence and a major concern for more adoption of bitcoin.

maianh09

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If you are a user of high-security options, then everything will be safe. For users who don't care about their account security, they run the risk of being hacked and having their money stolen at any time. Use popular wallet platforms to store Bitcoin and turn on all the provided security layers. Everything will always be safe. 2fa is still the most reliable security option for you and me.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

For me the tracing of transactions is something I would adopt and in extreme situations should be able to know the person behind those transactions. One issue I have about bitcoin is that security part of things. Using fiat, should someone manage to transfer money from my account to another, I only need to complaint and get it reversed. On the other hand the person can even be located because of the information provided but all that is not possible in bitcoin the moment your fund is taken, its lost forever and this has been responsible for series of set back in the fight against crime.

BestBitcoinBuyers

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Anonymity with bitcoin is the only way, we cover how to do it in our thread on this

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/anonymity-with-your-bitcoin-transactions-5178330

You can't have some people get anonymous transactions and others want everyone's ID in a centralized database.

Especially with a currency war right now, holding USD, Yuan, Euro, GBP all seem like a bad idea.

Those were once the "good" currencies!!

mos20

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imo, just because the current monetary system relies on a lack of privacy and giving excessive controll to a small group to protect it's users from theft and fraud doesn't mean that it's not worth while to explore a more preventive approach to these matters that stops the problem from occurring in the first place rather than trying to clean up the mess after the fact and ,as a result, making a whole new set of issues.

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Both of them have an advantage and disadvantage.
People will prefer to keep anonymous in all transactions cause they'll hiding something either bad or good intentions, it will be their decision.
And I'll keep to preferred of being traceable. Well, I'd never hide something to make me worried nor I have illegalities. The good thing to be traceable is that just in case we lose our money due to the wrong address, we can easily trace and recovered our money.

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Bitcoin transactions can be traced returned to your IP address. The records of all transactions can be analyzed for spatial and temporal correlations. If one tackle can be linked to a person, then related transactions can be identified. I would say that bitcoin offers a diploma of privateness now not offered through other ability of on-line payment, however for a sufficiently motivated entity, it is possible to reconstruct a person's bitcoin transaction activity. you have to understand what you are doing to use it in whole anonymity. I would now not advocate the usage of bitcoin if you are looking for whole anonymity.

yazher

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Quote from: rdluffy on August 25, 2019, 05:04:59 PM

Almost everyone, including me, will choose anonymity
One of the most reasons we are here, supporting cryptos, is because we like to have control of our money, and even if BTC is not totally anonymous, we don't like the idea of people tracing us

I'll admit that using cryptocurrencies will improve our privacy. because while using it they have a hard time tracing our real total assets and if we know how to live in a simple way they may not know that we have some big cash with us.

That's why we need to support this kind of anonymity because this is for our own good for our own protection. if we let them trace our tracsaction then this whole thing will make no sense at all.

bitbunnny

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Don't have illusion that Bitcoin transactions are anonimous. That was before, at the very begininig but now you can trace almost everything and users often forget that. If you want stay anonimous use cash and not Bitcoin.
We are value our privacy but having in mind all threats in crypto world we have to find the right balance between privacy and security and protection.

Ucy

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Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.

Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

Quote

If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

Fiat currencies or cash are quite anonymous... probably more anonymous than Bitcoin. The only point when fiat becomes less anonymous is in its virtual or cashless state. So, fiat has always been very anonymous except that it totally controlled by governments.

mohdk52

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Quote from: FlightyPouch on August 29, 2019, 04:54:42 PM

You have privacy on these cryptos.

Privacy is still there, but soon apparently it will only be a false sense of security.

salty

full member

Activity: 562

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For me, the important factor is still confidentiality.And it doesn't mean that I'm afraid of anything,just anonymity gives the right to feel independent of anyone.

FlightyPouch

sr. member

Activity: 1638

Merit: 300

Bitcoin is not entirely anonymous but I would choose it over traced tramsactions. The freedom of spending your cryptos in a way that the government don't know where you are spending them is great. Another thing is that people don't know what is happening since they didn't know I hold bitcoin and at the same time where I am spending it. You have privacy on these cryptos.

kaya11

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

You know what, when I was new here and no knowledge about countering any forms of hijacking me, I have no one, I did not even get help when my 1K USD forms of crypto was stolen, I did not beg for it to return. All I Did was sob for a little while and get back on my feet even though it hurts a bit. Now I have learned my lessons, even if the same thing happens, I will still do the same thing and move on, but that's if they manage to hack my account again. Anonymity is my weapon, a countermeasure for any hackers out there, better be unknown and that's what keeps me safe here until now.

BitValve

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BitValve P2P Cryptocurrency Exchange

Well Bitcoin (and thus its blockchain) is not really anonymous since everything is being publicly recorded and validated in the blockchain. Many people seem to forget that, unfortunately.

cabron

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I can tell this OP must have lost some BTC in the the past and was never returned. BTC was created the way, this isn't paypal where you can dispute a transaction which made it easy for scammers instead. The option is just not acceptable here because even if BTC isn't a privacy coin, your BTC will still not be returned to anyone who lost it. If you lose your private keys, stolen or scammed your coins are gone.

akeegan

jr. member

Activity: 236

Merit: 4

I think we can have privacy focused companies like Ciphertrace who help track large amounts of suspicious activity. They're working with major exchanges but believe in crypto ethos

suzanne5223

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Quote from: taufik0911 on August 28, 2019, 09:05:51 AM

I have one thought with Bitcoin being used for illegal transactions
in my opinion the difference is very clear that fiat uses a centralized system so that it is regulated by printing fiat etc. so that it can be populated by certain groups different from bitcoin which is not regulated by anyone

The decentralized in nature of bitcoin is the only method which will make bitcoin achieve the purpose of its creation or else the voice of the masses won't be count and about the illegal transaction. The institutions are just using that as an excuse cause illegal transaction has been in existence before the creation of bitcoin.

Quote from: The3max on August 27, 2019, 09:53:11 PM

I wish that your thoughts could be resolved. As we all know, sending on the blockchain cannot come back. And if you can come back, guess what the problem is? Trust and safety are not taken first. But for companies or their own platform, for example, Binance, you can ask for assistance to get your money back.

Transaction sent on the blockchain can cancel buddy. If make another transaction with the same input to another address which was control by you and broadcast it. For information read through this thread to understand how to go about it.

yoseph

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Activity: 868

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Quote from: arpon11 on August 26, 2019, 11:52:19 AM

When I read Bitcoin white paper in 2015 I am happy for us to have a system that the transactions cannot be traced by tax official who is bend to collect tax and embezzled the same funds without taking care of the social amenities that will help the entire populace and as such I am in favor of anonymous or privacy. We should be able to transact with one another without governments involvement or bank involvement. However, criminal and criminality are hiding under this Anonymous to commit a crime against the populace that it should protect and as such government has to come in to secure people investments in crypto currency.

Tax evasion is one of the main reason why these governments don't trust bitcoins and cryptos in the first, Whatever they wiil have to do to collect taxes, they are going to do it. I am not one of the people who who likes bitcoins because of it's anonymity because it's not as anonyomus as we thought it was.

Kez1817

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www.cd3d.app

Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

I will choose anonymity because nobody knows if who is the person behind those transaction made in the blockchain,it means the privacy. The difference between bitcoin and fiat is very clear. Fiat is regulated by the government issued by the banks and it was centralized while bitcoin is Decentralized digital currency used freely by the people through internet and online currency.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

Well, I don't see how these topics are related. If there's one wallet with the money that belongs to the owner of this wallet, and then there's another wallet of the person who decides to steal the money, then the money from the second wallet can be returned to the first wallet without any identification required. I am not sure if reversing transactions is even theoretically possible, but I am sure that the majority won't approve of it. It's not about anonymity, it's about decentralization. Sure, it's sad when the money is stolen, but if the mechanism that allows freezing the money in certain wallets or reversing some transactions is introduced, there will be room for abuse of this system, and Bitcoin won't be much different from fiat indeed.

taufik0911

full member

Activity: 1274

Merit: 104

HEX: Longer pays better

I have one thought with Bitcoin being used for illegal transactions
in my opinion the difference is very clear that fiat uses a centralized system so that it is regulated by printing fiat etc. so that it can be populated by certain groups different from bitcoin which is not regulated by anyone

The3max

full member

Activity: 317

Merit: 100

https://leasehold.io/

I wish that your thoughts could be resolved. As we all know, sending on the blockchain cannot come back. And if you can come back, guess what the problem is? Trust and safety are not taken first. But for companies or their own platform, for example, Binance, you can ask for assistance to get your money back.

jdarren

member

Activity: 296

Merit: 12

I mean if my funds got stolen especially a large amount I would enjoy to have them return. I believe users can still remain anonymous if there are companies in place like Ciphertrace that offer blockchain forensics. The difference is that companies that offer privacy protecting technology are helping the ecosystem from money laundering. I think they could help with large amounts of loses rather than just small bits here and there.

Idk I go back and forth though because anonymity is ultimately the goal cypto put out. I just don't know if we will be able to remain completely anonymous with governments around the globe stepping in.

arpon11

sr. member

Activity: 882

Merit: 282

When I read Bitcoin white paper in 2015 I am happy for us to have a system that the transactions cannot be traced by tax official who is bend to collect tax and embezzled the same funds without taking care of the social amenities that will help the entire populace and as such I am in favor of anonymous or privacy. We should be able to transact with one another without governments involvement or bank involvement. However, criminal and criminality are hiding under this Anonymous to commit a crime against the populace that it should protect and as such government has to come in to secure people investments in crypto currency.

Slow death

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?

I choose the first option, but I must say that this is a very complicated subject. Because the government's obliges financial institutions require their clients to do KYC, this is for them to be able to monitor people and when anonymous ( Like monero for example ) currencies appear , it's like if they are declaring a war against governments, a war that cannot win. Bitcoin is fine as it is

Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

people have control of their private keys, I think this is something very good that bitcoin has and fiat doesn't have

Duzter

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Quote from: dkbit98 on August 26, 2019, 01:35:42 AM

Optional anonymity is much better solution for Bitcoin, because
if Bitcoin was 100% with private transactions from start I am sure
that Law enforcement would do much more to ban any use of it.

Some second layer solution or wallet with privacy function is good solution looking long term.

Maybe there are few governments that take anonymity as a reason to ban. Bitcoin isn't 100% anonymous, it is pseudo anonymous with possible chances of knowing one's wallet balance if a particular users identity is known. This transparency is good for any network, another thing is the irreversible feature of a transaction. This will make users more responsible, but at the same time the risk is very big.

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

Optional anonymity is much better solution for Bitcoin, because
if Bitcoin was 100% with private transactions from start I am sure
that Law enforcement would do much more to ban any use of it.

Some second layer solution or wallet with privacy function is good solution looking long term.

jseverson

hero member

Activity: 1834

Merit: 759

Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.

Um, who's asking for the latter option? That's a feature, not an oversight. If you own Bitcoin, you have to assume full responsibility of what happens to your holdings. If you want to retrieve your stolen coins, you look for other avenues to do so (law enforcement, etc.), and not a change in the roadmap.

Having an option for anonymity is always better than not having it, and anyone who tells you otherwise a) doesn't use Bitcoin or b) is shooting themselves in the foot.

Kakmakr

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

"Do not throw out the baby with the bath water."

Remember, all technologies have their advantages and disadvantages and the same goes for Bitcoin. On the one hand you have pseudo anonymity to protect people's financial privacy, but on the other hand, this anonymity are used by criminals to hide their criminal activities.

Take the Internet as an example, when it started people were saying the Internet was a cestpool of pedophiles and money launderers and look how many legal things are being done with the Internet now. We still have scammers and criminals using the Internet, but more people use it for legal uses now. Wink

Herbert2020

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.

since bitcoin transactions are not reversible (unlike fiat systems that have easy charge back that leads to a lot of other types of scams), there is no way of returning stolen bitcoins to their owners. not to mention that the owners have a hard time proving their coins were actually stolen. having more privacy in this case doesn't really change that much.

rdluffy

legendary

Activity: 2478

Merit: 1516

Almost everyone, including me, will choose anonymity
One of the most reasons we are here, supporting cryptos, is because we like to have control of our money, and even if BTC is not totally anonymous, we don't like the idea of people tracing us

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.

Even if the "bad guys" are sloppy and you can link their addresses to their identity (which is not very likely), unless they give you their private key the stolen Bitcoins cannot be returned.
So... what are we talking about?

fullhdpixel

hero member

Activity: 2828

Merit: 611

Everyone will mostly go for the anonymity of bitcoin, and this is the major part of the coin that are even of threat to the government itself, and that is why they are running everything possible with Microsoft to see how they can crack the code and destroy the anonymity of the coin.

I understand that it can also be tempting though, I mean tracing of transaction, because right now, I am looking for any system that would deal with those scammers that has used the system to defraud lots of people of their hard earned money, which makes me want to belong to the second group sometimes, but anonymity can be so much tempting, and I think I am sorry to those that is losing their fund, I still represent anonymity and this is what I liked the system for.

Darker45

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

I think privacy and anonymity do no automatically mean that every BTC stolen couldn't be recovered anymore. Nor does it mean that since one is using Bitcoin, he or she cannot anymore get caught and be brought to justice if he or she is involved in illegal transactions.

Although the largest portion of stolen crypto funds are not recovered, there were a few successful recoveries I believe. But it is enough to say that there is a little opening to the possibility of recovering stolen funds.

As far as Bitcoin users' involvement in illegal transactions are concerned, the silk road is the first thing that comes to mind. There were many arrests done all over the world. Again, this means to say that using Bitcoin is not a haven for criminal minds.

Botnake

hero member

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Bitcoin if we will only use the blockchain with coverting it in exchange, that will make us anonymous, but, the moment we send it in exchange, we loss that anonymity already because exchanges are centralized, hence they are required by law to conduct KYC on their clients, and because of KYC, it will make our transactions in blockchain easily to be trace.

pawanjain

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Nothing lasts forever

Bitcoin is not actually completely anonymous. Bitcoin transactions are considered as pseudonymous and it can be traced back to the owner with some effort.
Though it would be really difficult if the transaction was been through a mixer. Anyway, I would consider privacy to be the prime factor as I always do.

hulla

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Quote from: javadsalehi on August 23, 2019, 05:18:56 PM

Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

The difference between bitcoin and fiat are the visibility, unheld and decentralized. But, there are something people seems not to understand especially the institutions whenever they want to say negative things about bitcoin, what they said is that it was used for illegal transactions or they didn't support because of money launder and we both know bitcoin was not created when money launder started and when the 9/11 happened.
The anonymity of bitcoin is not a curse and everything which use as legal tender will always abuse by the scammer and theft.

pakhitheboss

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We love Bitcoin over Fiat because it provides to a certain extent anonymous transaction. Therefore I will always favor anonymity. Tracing transaction is for FIAT transaction and that is what the government wants.

Just read a few minutes back that Microsoft has already launched a software that will remove the anonymity part of cryptocurrency. With this product, the governments will be benefited and those who are looking to trace those stolen Bitcoin.

Read - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/microsoft-obsession-with-anonymity-2099841

Hamphser

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I will choose anonymity than tracing transactions because tracing transactions sounded like a centralized thing which is the government is always doing. Making a path of all of your expenses that somehow could be altered with someone who has the power to see the transaction records of a certain person.
Anonymity is better since no one will know if what addresses you are using for trading and for savings.

javadsalehi

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Whenever bitcoin transactions anonymity is discussed, there are two groups of people. The first group think of privacy of users and the second group think of those bitcoins have been stolen or have been used for illegal transactions.
We cannot have both anonymity and possibility of returning stolen bitcoin to their real owners.
Which one do you choose if you have to choose only of them?
If you choose the second option, please answer the question below.
Now, what's the difference between bitcoin and fiat?

Topic: Anonymity VS tracing transactions. (Read 862 times)