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Topic: Antminer S5 - Underclock - Undervolt - Best J/GH (Read 31037 times)

member
Activity: 518
Merit: 10
I really don't know the details. Apparently its because they switched to a "string design", the voltage must be controlled at the feed/PSU level. But again only the 1.91v seem to support it without dropping chips.


unlike the S1 & S3 which have Buck Converters that reduce the 12V down to the 0.6-0.8V range needed by the chips, the S5, S5+ & S7 use a string supply for the core voltage. The chips are connected in series (Like Xmas Tree Lights) and so with 15 Chip pairs in the string in an S5 and 12V you end up with 12/15 = 0.8V / chip. Reducing the supply to 9V you then get 9/15 = 0.6V
member
Activity: 79
Merit: 18
I read this thread with great interest until I got about halfway through and plugged some numbers from RichBC's original table into this calculator https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=330&HashingUnit=GH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=89&CostPerkWh=0.12 and realized there's mostly no such thing as a free lunch.  The difficulty has increased in the 2 years or so since this was written but still I wouldn't mind picking up an S5 cheap, before I read this I thought I couldn't afford the wattage.  They aren't quite a dinosaur.  Mostly free solar electricity puts efficiency in a different light.  I kept wondering why Sidehack's Compacs and 2pacs were a good thing but the original S5 that the ICs came out of weren't.  It's because you can play with parameters like undervolting, at least changing the core voltage.

Plotting numbers from that table it looks like things are mostly linear, there's no magic knee or obvious sweet spot.

You turn up the voltage, the watts and GH go up with it.  Under 11 volts looks good though.

I kept wondering why you kept messing with commercially built power supplies when it's so simple to just start from scratch.  Just some transformer so you don't have a hot chassis, a bridge rectifier, as much capacitance as practical, then start regulating it back down.  If your line or load regulation aren't perfect then your GH/sec is going to be not quite what you want for a second or so, no big deal.  I've built mostly linear regulators in the 1980s, but we didn't have ICs like the LM2596 and MC34063 then.  You add pass transistors on the output to handle more current than the bare ICs can handle.  A single heatsinked 2N3055 is good for 30 amps.  I did find by experiment that the more gain stages you have the better the load regulation is.  Transistor gain is current gain.  The final stage might want to be 2 or 3 transistors in parallel.

Just connect them emitter to base like the last couple stages in the IC are, with some pull-down resistor because you're switching.  This is from an MC34063 data sheet but I think the LM2596 will also work with external transistors.  Or FETs if you prefer.  You're switching, so the transistors are saturated, you aren't going to have a lot of heat, just the transistor's forward voltage drop of 0.6 volts times the current.  Some junk computer PSU will probably yield you some pass transistors and an inductor.  You can put a voltage adjust pot on the sense input or the IC's voltage reference, look at how an LM723 is set up.  I have a bench supply I built with LM723s about 40 years ago, it's still going.  Strictly linear so it's inefficient and runs hot but it's charged a lot of car batteries over the years.  The diode should be a Schottky here.  Keep leads short and use a toroid inductor, this is going to throw out some radio trash.  Building it into a metal box wouldn't hurt.
hero member
Activity: 1610
Merit: 538
I'm in BTC XTC

i had the positive and negative reversed and i cant believe i didnt burn out the board but im testing on a s3 b4 i get brave enough to try my s5 or s7.

Well I can tell you that if you swap the +/- on the S7 board you will indeed get a magical puff of smoke and need to buy a new one...   Not that I'd have any first-hand knowledge of this. Roll Eyes

hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Good result, glad nothing got damaged, we all have these moments.....


Rich
newbie
Activity: 5
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thanks for the quick reply rich, im such a idiot!!! it's just a panel amp / volt / watt meter that has a range of 6 to 100 volts and 100 amps i think but i found my problem, i started thinking maybe 1 of my 3 wires going to each side of the molex connector may be swapped around and no i was dumber than that!!!

i had the positive and negative reversed and i cant believe i didnt burn out the board but im testing on a s3 b4 i get brave enough to try my s5 or s7.

it's running fine ATM on a drok 8-12 amp buck at 150 clock since this buck is so low amp but at least it's not a dead short now LOL
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
can any of you DC power experts Smiley tell me why when i hook up a buck converter outputting 12 volts and what should be plenty of amps my meter goes black and the board isnt powering up, im even running the control board and the other hashing board off a real power supply and turned it on afterwards...

i tried another brand of buck converter too.
only thing i can figure why my panel meter goes black is it's sucking the voltage down under the 6v min but why is the billion BC question.

Thanks in advance.


What do you mean by "meter goes black"? What range have you got the meter on / is it ok measuring other voltages?


Rich
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
can any of you DC power experts Smiley tell me why when i hook up a buck converter outputting 12 volts and what should be plenty of amps my meter goes black and the board isnt powering up, im even running the control board and the other hashing board off a real power supply and turned it on afterwards...

i tried another brand of buck converter too.
only thing i can figure why my panel meter goes black is it's sucking the voltage down under the 6v min but why is the billion BC question.

Thanks in advance.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
I think i have a s7 batch 8, IDK yet for sure but it came clocked at 700... i have it, 2 s3's, a C1 and a s5 that im clueless what board is in ATM too.
yes a gridtie does make a lot of sense but my panels aren't UL approved and here in the USA they have to be is my understanding.

BTW in s7 batch 10 they say Rated Voltage: 11.60 ~13.00V

so far the s5 looks to me like it may be my best option to burn the 7.5KW undervolting using 2 12 or 15 amp buckconvters each connected to 1 board.
do you have any idea what will happen if the amps needed aren't available?

yes 700MHz will be batch 8 or 9, with 135 Chips & the Buck Converter.

Not having enough Amps is not a good idea. The voltage will drop and the Miner will stop mining, then the voltage will rise again, miner will reboot and the cycle will repeat. Could easily harm the miner.

Rich
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
I think i have a s7 batch 8, IDK yet for sure but it came clocked at 700... i have it, 2 s3's, a C1 and a s5 that im clueless what board is in ATM too.
yes a gridtie does make a lot of sense but my panels aren't UL approved and here in the USA they have to be is my understanding.

BTW in s7 batch 10 they say Rated Voltage: 11.60 ~13.00V

so far the s5 looks to me like it may be my best option to burn the 7.5KW undervolting using 2 12 or 15 amp buckconvters each connected to 1 board.
do you have any idea what will happen if the amps needed aren't available?
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500


as for evening hours i plan to switch to house current for profitable miners like the s7 and on that note can they be underclocked / under volted the others7 thread seemed like no one has tried...  in the s3 thread the pencil mod / adding resistors to change the buck regulator is cool and all but what you did using the digital pot is more what im thinking and FYI my C1 i just lowered to 650 in the advanced tab and 150 clock and it like .63 so kinda intresting...  

Happy to have been of some help. Would it not be easier to just have  grid tie inverter and run the Miner in the conventional way, and then just keep track of the Solar Power you have generated & Power off the Miner for the right amount of Hours so that you were only effectively using solar power for mining?

Have not seen S7 Undervolted successfully yet and results will depend on batch. The 162 chip versions will be able to accept reducing the voltage as they are pure string design. The 135 chip systems have a Buck converter controlled by a PIC microcontroller, however although there has been some discussion noone has reported doing the work to fully understand the Pic / Digital Pot arrangement and come up with some Mods. which I am sure will be possible and enable undervolting.

Unfortunately I do not have an S7 otherwise I would play with this. Which batch / version do you have?

Rich

newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
[quote authorjavascript:void(0);=Logan5 link=topic=1151460.msg13774847#msg13774847 date=1454600923]
can 2 s5 boards be set up in series maybe? the reason im asking is my solar panels are putting out 20 volts.

Would not do this as it will cause all sorts of problems with grounds & the controller interface etc.

I would advise using a Buck Converter to convert the 20V to 12V, however you will also have a problem when the sun goes in and you loose the Power?


Rich
[/quote]

rich thank you for all your input on this subject here, in the s7 thread and over on https://fanbitcoin.com/index.php?topic=771979.0;all about the s3

i figured the controller would need to be kept at a lower voltage as for the cloud passing by issue i have 7.5KW / 50 153 watt panels im trying to use for mining and i should have plenty power to do a little buffering.

yes i have a couple of 12 amp buck converters coming in tomorrow but the 40amp one linked here isnt available any longer and other high amp ones for a cheap price has been hard to find.

as for evening hours i plan to switch to house current for profitable miners like the s7 and on that note can they be underclocked / under volted the others7 thread seemed like no one has tried...  in the s3 thread the pencil mod / adding resistors to change the buck regulator is cool and all but what you did using the digital pot is more what im thinking and FYI my C1 i just lowered to 650 in the advanced tab and 150 clock and it like .63 so kinda intresting...  
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
can 2 s5 boards be set up in series maybe? the reason im asking is my solar panels are putting out 20 volts.

Would not do this as it will cause all sorts of problems with grounds & the controller interface etc.

I would advise using a Buck Converter to convert the 20V to 12V, however you will also have a problem when the sun goes in and you loose the Power?


Rich
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
can 2 s5 boards be set up in series maybe? the reason im asking is my solar panels are putting out 20 volts.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500

Do you mind posting a photo or your setup? Just want to see if it looks messy

Away from Home until after the new Year, and not using the Buck Converter at the Moment as with the improved Exchange rate I am running the S5 flat out.  Smiley However I will put it together again and take a photo when I get back.

Rich

legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 1708
My favoured solution would be an adjustable Server PSU, trouble is not much information exists on which ones can be easily adjusted. The RC guys are very hot on voltage adjustment but they are mostly interested in increasing the voltage. This is often easier as you can use an adjustment to the sense voltage to trick the PSU into increasing it's voltage.

The Bitmain PSU has an adjustment and has been reported to be adjustable from 11.5V to 12.6V This is useful but not really low enough for max underclock.

I have played with an HP DPS600, this can be mad to go 10.56V but unfortunately as you turn the volts down the Power you can draw drops and again is not ideal. (data somewhere back in this thread)

I am sure there will be some wide range adjustable Server PSU's however at the moment I do not know which ones? Which is why I have used a separate Buck converter, not ideal, not as efficient, more wires, but very adjustable and enables you for a small additional cost to use an existing PSU.


Rich

Do you mind posting a photo or your setup? Just want to see if it looks messy
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
My favoured solution would be an adjustable Server PSU, trouble is not much information exists on which ones can be easily adjusted. The RC guys are very hot on voltage adjustment but they are mostly interested in increasing the voltage. This is often easier as you can use an adjustment to the sense voltage to trick the PSU into increasing it's voltage.

The Bitmain PSU has an adjustment and has been reported to be adjustable from 11.5V to 12.6V This is useful but not really low enough for max underclock.

I have played with an HP DPS600, this can be mad to go 10.56V but unfortunately as you turn the volts down the Power you can draw drops and again is not ideal. (data somewhere back in this thread)

I am sure there will be some wide range adjustable Server PSU's however at the moment I do not know which ones? Which is why I have used a separate Buck converter, not ideal, not as efficient, more wires, but very adjustable and enables you for a small additional cost to use an existing PSU.


Rich
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
Which server PSU have an controllable output voltage option?

The 12V -> Buck Converter for every PCIe port is just going to create a huge mess with alot of wires.

My main focus is to just make the S5 quieter. The aftermarket fans are too expensive.

With a 40 Amp Buck Converter you only need one.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-40A-Buck-converter-7V-25V-to-1V-21V-step-down-module-adjustable-and-high-efficiency/1813877363.html

Rich

How would you hook that up to both the S5 blades?

You just connect all the 4 PCI-e cable ground to the ground and the 4 PCI-e cable +12v to the output +volt. Or 2 PCI-e cable then use 2 splitter if you want to connect less things directly on the buck converter. Same principle apply for others converter, which might be a good thing to keep in mind since that one in particular seem out of stock.
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 1708
Which server PSU have an controllable output voltage option?

The 12V -> Buck Converter for every PCIe port is just going to create a huge mess with alot of wires.

My main focus is to just make the S5 quieter. The aftermarket fans are too expensive.

With a 40 Amp Buck Converter you only need one.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-40A-Buck-converter-7V-25V-to-1V-21V-step-down-module-adjustable-and-high-efficiency/1813877363.html

Rich

How would you hook that up to both the S5 blades?
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Which server PSU have an controllable output voltage option?

The 12V -> Buck Converter for every PCIe port is just going to create a huge mess with alot of wires.

My main focus is to just make the S5 quieter. The aftermarket fans are too expensive.

With a 40 Amp Buck Converter you only need one.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-40A-Buck-converter-7V-25V-to-1V-21V-step-down-module-adjustable-and-high-efficiency/1813877363.html

Rich
legendary
Activity: 3738
Merit: 1708
Which server PSU have an controllable output voltage option?

The 12V -> Buck Converter for every PCIe port is just going to create a huge mess with alot of wires.

My main focus is to just make the S5 quieter. The aftermarket fans are too expensive.
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