I don't think this case is comparable to Madoff because he was running a fund which claimed to make profits for those who deposited money. The people who withdrew from the fund would get more money than they deposited. MtGox never claimed to give profits on the deposited money, and nobody got more money because they had deposited anything to MtGox. The point of an exchange is to give away one form of value and get the same value back in another form.
Requiring depositors to pay back what they have withdrawn would be like if a bank went broke and anyone who had withdrawn money in the last 3 years would be required to pay it back. Most customers would have lots of deposits (from salary) and lots of withdrawals in 3 years, but that doesn't mean they've profited.
Topic: Anyone who had btc on gox since 2011 could be affected (Read 5327 times)
sweet, then send me back all the btc that i sold/transfered since then...
about 5k btc over that span... im fine with that
about 5k btc over that span... im fine with that
SO, they want me to return my 3k? fine, return my 30 coins 
That's the only thing I took from gox.
That's the only thing I took from gox.Yeah, that would be a pretty nice deal.
But they'd likely say that you are required to pay:
Fiat value of the amount of fiat or BTC you withdrew MINUS the fiat value your 30 coins had on the day you deposited them on the Exchange (or maybe day you traded them to fiat, if the trade is not being rolled back) MINUS any fiat value that was attributable to the "share" that you get back as MtGox creditor.
Not a single costumer made a profit on mtgox. In fact, most made a 0.065% loss on every trade, plus deposit and withdrawal fees.
If you sent $100 and withdrew $1000 that is because your asset increased in market value, not because mtgox paid you out a profit. It would have increased in value independently of mtgox.
The only people who made a profit are the thieves and possibly mtgox themselves.
If you sent $100 and withdrew $1000 that is because your asset increased in market value, not because mtgox paid you out a profit. It would have increased in value independently of mtgox.
The only people who made a profit are the thieves and possibly mtgox themselves.
The bankruptsy is in Japan, so U.S. law has nothing to do with it.
Many on here think that only the people who currently have money or bitcoin with gox will be directly affected by a gox bankruptcy. That may not be the case. According to Jesse Powell, the CEO of Kraken, 800,000 bitcoin were stolen in June 2011. Instead of informing the public, gox decided to essentially run a ponzi scheme from that date forward through which it attempted to reach solvency by generating fees through transactions and possible arbitrage.
The bankruptcy trustee could determine that everything that occurred since that June 2011 date should be unwound, and that anyone who withdrew money or bitcoin from that will need to return those net profits to bankruptcy estate.
Don't believe me? Do you think the people who were smart enough, or lucky enough, to pull money out of their Bernie Madoff accounts got to keep those profits? No, the bankruptcy trustee sued every single one of those people and required them to put back into the bankruptcy estate all of their net profits that they made. And it meant nothing that they were completely unaware of the fraud.
So if you are one of those people who had money or bitcoin on gox and made a profit on the transaction, which is now sitting in your wallet or your bank account, don't be too sure you want gox to die.
The bankruptcy trustee could determine that everything that occurred since that June 2011 date should be unwound, and that anyone who withdrew money or bitcoin from that will need to return those net profits to bankruptcy estate.
Don't believe me? Do you think the people who were smart enough, or lucky enough, to pull money out of their Bernie Madoff accounts got to keep those profits? No, the bankruptcy trustee sued every single one of those people and required them to put back into the bankruptcy estate all of their net profits that they made. And it meant nothing that they were completely unaware of the fraud.
So if you are one of those people who had money or bitcoin on gox and made a profit on the transaction, which is now sitting in your wallet or your bank account, don't be too sure you want gox to die.
What like all those that got sucked into the pirateat40 ponzi got all their money back.
Don't be silly. Those with Bitcoins and/or cash still on Gox have lost it. You might as well write it off and be done with it.
Many on here think that only the people who currently have money or bitcoin with gox will be directly affected by a gox bankruptcy. That may not be the case. According to Jesse Powell, the CEO of Kraken, 800,000 bitcoin were stolen in June 2011. Instead of informing the public, gox decided to essentially run a ponzi scheme from that date forward through which it attempted to reach solvency by generating fees through transactions and possible arbitrage.
The bankruptcy trustee could determine that everything that occurred since that June 2011 date should be unwound, and that anyone who withdrew money or bitcoin from that will need to return those net profits to bankruptcy estate.
Don't believe me? Do you think the people who were smart enough, or lucky enough, to pull money out of their Bernie Madoff accounts got to keep those profits? No, the bankruptcy trustee sued every single one of those people and required them to put back into the bankruptcy estate all of their net profits that they made. And it meant nothing that they were completely unaware of the fraud.
So if you are one of those people who had money or bitcoin on gox and made a profit on the transaction, which is now sitting in your wallet or your bank account, don't be too sure you want gox to die.
The bankruptcy trustee could determine that everything that occurred since that June 2011 date should be unwound, and that anyone who withdrew money or bitcoin from that will need to return those net profits to bankruptcy estate.
Don't believe me? Do you think the people who were smart enough, or lucky enough, to pull money out of their Bernie Madoff accounts got to keep those profits? No, the bankruptcy trustee sued every single one of those people and required them to put back into the bankruptcy estate all of their net profits that they made. And it meant nothing that they were completely unaware of the fraud.
So if you are one of those people who had money or bitcoin on gox and made a profit on the transaction, which is now sitting in your wallet or your bank account, don't be too sure you want gox to die.
It might just turn out that what everyone has been proclaiming to be the final MEGA-Goxxing is just a blip on the road to the REAL MEGA-GOXXING!
I just knew Gox had a last trick up its sleeve!!
The bankruptcy trustee could determine that everything that occurred since that June 2011 date should be unwound, and that anyone who withdrew money or bitcoin from that will need to return those net profits to bankruptcy estate.
Yes, just like the Zeek Rewards resolution where they reversed all the bank transfers en masse.
There was a thread about this yesterday: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-claw-of-gox-former-customers-clawback-exposure-489927
Holy shit! If I lost both $ and BTC on gox by trading, can I file a claim if it was certified as a scam?
We have Satoshi Nakamoto's Bitcoin address.
Remember when we used that information to link the address to the person?
Remember when we used that information to link the address to the person?
Bitcoin transactions by definition are not reversible and also by the protocol.
No one is going to be affected, that would be like going to an ATM machine and getting a $20 dollar bill that was stolen, first of all you would not have any method of knowing if it was stolen or not, and in the event that it was stolen you got it by legit means even with a record of that, so the one liable it is the thief no one else, laws vary country to country, but insane laws are usually not enforceable, they are the worst since they only exist to harass people otherwise they would be enforced.
No one is going to be affected, that would be like going to an ATM machine and getting a $20 dollar bill that was stolen, first of all you would not have any method of knowing if it was stolen or not, and in the event that it was stolen you got it by legit means even with a record of that, so the one liable it is the thief no one else, laws vary country to country, but insane laws are usually not enforceable, they are the worst since they only exist to harass people otherwise they would be enforced.
Well if any gox bankruptcy trustee wants to unwind my transaction in 2011, I say bring it on, I sold a bunch of mined bitcoins back then for FIAT, I would be very happy if those transactions could be reversed
A good point. To fairly reverse the trade, they need to return your asset, not just demand you return your "profit" from selling the asset.
The profit from sale is not attributable to Mt.Gox's shadiness, but appreciation in value of your valuable asset.
Returning the dollars that came from appreciation of your asset, without having the asset returned, is just trying to incur an unfair loss on customers to satisfy other creditors.
Nice!! So I loose 73 Goxcoins and also I'm going to get sued for some 5000 Euros.
Mark just when I think my ass raping cant get any worse. Got to hand it to you mark buddy.
Mark just when I think my ass raping cant get any worse. Got to hand it to you mark buddy.
The Goxing Never Stops..24/7 365..Even after Gox dies, Goxing goes for eternity. Thank you Mark, its been a blessing.
First you Gox, then you become goxxed, after that you are permanently goxxed. There's no escape really.
Someone needs to make a "I got goxxed and all I got was this crappy T-shirt."
Mark has the coins
rewind 
never going to happen!
never going to happen!FYI: Gox did a "rewind" in 2011, reversing the trades that took BTC down to a penny.
You are talking about two different things.
Rewinding trades with funds extant only on the exchange, for which only funds in the exchange can be affected along with the operator of the exchange.
And going outside the exchange to recover funds which may not be recoverable any other way.
Very well put
rewind never going to happen!
never going to happen!FYI: Gox did a "rewind" in 2011, reversing the trades that took BTC down to a penny.
You are talking about two different things.
Rewinding trades with funds extant only on the exchange, for which only funds in the exchange can be affected along with the operator of the exchange.
And going outside the exchange to recover funds which may not be recoverable any other way.
Yes, you are correct.
You are talking about clawback, but there is some reason that withdrawn btc would not apply for clawback...I just forgot why though 
I think it might have something to do with me having to knowingly withdrawn funds from an insolvent company at the expense of everyone else or something like that I'm no lawyer.
You are talking about clawback, but there is some reason that withdrawn btc would not apply for clawback...I just forgot why though
Nice!! So I loose 73 Goxcoins and also I'm going to get sued for some 5000 Euros.
Mark just when I think my ass raping cant get any worse. Got to hand it to you mark buddy.
Mark just when I think my ass raping cant get any worse. Got to hand it to you mark buddy.
The Goxing Never Stops..24/7 365..Even after Gox dies, Goxing goes for eternity. Thank you Mark, its been a blessing.
First you Gox, then you become goxxed, after that you are permanently goxxed. There's no escape really.
I know right
Mark your are 100% off my Xmass card list.
This is why I'm encrypting my stash, sooner or later, with whatever excuse the cops will knock down my door.
By then I intend to not be there or at the very least have the pleasure of laughing in their stupid faces.
By then I intend to not be there or at the very least have the pleasure of laughing in their stupid faces.
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