Anyway to block usage of stolen coins? - page 2.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 07:37:18 PM

Well we would only blacklist hacked coins I guess, so hackers do not profit and miners do, for doing the right thing. I don`t know, it would be up to the network, I would vote fuck you to mt.gox coins lol, but it is to late now, if we had this feature it could of been good.

According to Bitcoin's design, "the right thing" for miners to do is to process transactions based on fee priority and nothing else. Blacklisting, rollbacks, etc. based on external financial incentive is an attack on the network.

I understand why people want to do this and I can agree with their sentiment, but it would completely erode trust in the protocol. Bitcoin would no longer be seen as irreversible and would instead be subject to some kind of morality code. I'm not sure investors and users would take kindly to that.

Shenzou

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Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

Well it is defiantly has been made before or at least said that the addresses where the the stolen bitcoin was sent to were blacklisted when the Japanese exchange Zaif got hacked and over 60 million worth of bitcoin were sent to multiple addresses, but something tells me that the damage was already done and probably were sent to multiple address other the ones used for the hack and they just said so just to calm the media down and in reality they could not do anything about it, but who knows if it is true or not, we can't prove it.

Genemind

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Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:48:38 PM

Quote from: Jimmy Crypto on June 01, 2019, 04:47:42 PM

Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

If the new address was known, exchanges could blacklist the addresses. But eventually, the culprit could find a way to offload the coins.

I am talking about the bitcoin network blacklist the coins, not the exchange.

They couldn't blacklist the coins even an exchange couldn't do something about it but if you'll report and prove the occurrence of a certain hacking incident, some exchanges could ban an address. You must report an incident right away to an exchange's support for them to do a proper sanction.

TimeBits

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Quote from: coin-investor on June 01, 2019, 07:37:14 PM

Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

I don't think it's possible, the culprit can create new address again and again and he can use a mixer, there is a lot of that here, and upload it to exchanges, there are a lot of possible ways for the culprit to get away, but it is a very huge amount, the idea of a fork is possible, but not highly recommended.

You can go in time before he used the mixer, but you need to compensate everyone else, a side chain can do this, that reconnects into the main, a chain inside a chain, kind of like how the avengers go back in time and don`t want to fuck up the time thing so they have to reconnect the fork to the future to the past and back to the future. Grin

TimeBits

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Quote from: squatter on June 01, 2019, 05:35:15 PM

Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network?

Are we for censorship resistance, or not? Blacklisting is antithetical to what Bitcoin is. The entire proof-of-work mining incentive exists so that miners publish transactions regardless of any other consideration than rational profit motive. If users/miners can start meddling and deciding that some transactions are illegitimate, then clearly Bitcoin can't be trusted any more than the trusted intermediaries (like banks) it was intended to replace.

Exchanges and other centralized services are free to coordinate and blacklist coins among themselves, but implementing a blacklist at the protocol level would be impossible to do. Users wouldn't have it. Blacklisting nodes would eventually split from the Bitcoin network when the outputs are spent.

Well we would only blacklist hacked coins I guess, so hackers do not profit and miners do, for doing the right thing. I don`t know, it would be up to the network, I would vote fuck you to mt.gox coins lol, but it is to late now, if we had this feature it could of been good.

As for the later there could be fixes put in. I thought of something pretty good.

coin-investor

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Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

I don't think it's possible, the culprit can create new address again and again and he can use a mixer, there is a lot of that here, and upload it to exchanges, there are a lot of possible ways for the culprit to get away, but it is a very huge amount, the idea of a fork is possible, but not highly recommended.

Ranly123

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Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

I think it could not be retrieved nor blacklist those lost coins. In blockchain, tracing the lost or havked coins is impossible since there are many processes to be done. Maybe in the future we can have an advanced security on how to trace or stop those hackers.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Julunguul on June 01, 2019, 06:04:21 PM

So in other words this can actually be but because everyone has their own problems so that it will be difficult to do. Miners also definitely don't want to waste their time on things that might be in vain

Many things can be achieved if enough people can agree to do it. The agreeing bit is the impossible part. The one thing everyone can agree on is making as much money as possible which is why stolen coins are very unlikely to ever be blocked at miner level.

Julunguul

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Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

Quote from: Astvile on June 01, 2019, 05:17:41 PM

Miners can,but will take a huge chunk of percentage of miners to agree to blocking the mining of a current transaction block where the moving of stolen bitcoins in.But mostlikely miners would not agree to such terms because they will lose some profits if they will not continue on running mining each block.

So in other words this can actually be but because everyone has their own problems so that it will be difficult to do. Miners also definitely don't want to waste their time on things that might be in vain

Mahanton

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Quote from: Astvile on June 01, 2019, 05:17:41 PM

Miners can,but will take a huge chunk of percentage of miners to agree to blocking the mining of a current transaction block where the moving of stolen bitcoins in.But mostlikely miners would not agree to such terms because they will lose some profits if they will not continue on running mining each block.

They wont really care at all on blocking those transactions yet they do know that they would make profits.Miners are the only ones can block these addresses
but it would still need some long agreement or arrangement from miners itself.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network?

Are we for censorship resistance, or not? Blacklisting is antithetical to what Bitcoin is. The entire proof-of-work mining incentive exists so that miners publish transactions regardless of any other consideration than rational profit motive. If users/miners can start meddling and deciding that some transactions are illegitimate, then clearly Bitcoin can't be trusted any more than the trusted intermediaries (like banks) it was intended to replace.

Exchanges and other centralized services are free to coordinate and blacklist coins among themselves, but implementing a blacklist at the protocol level would be impossible to do. Users wouldn't have it. Blacklisting nodes would eventually split from the Bitcoin network when the outputs are spent.

Ailmand

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I think the network it self doesn't have such functionality. However, there are certain addressess that is banned by exchange platform most likely those that are from stolen funds.

josephdd1

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Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

you would first have to prove it that it was your coin in the first place. And that method has to be waterproof as well. Roll Eyes

otherwise what is stopping a random person from claiming your unstolen coins?

Astvile

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Miners can,but will take a huge chunk of percentage of miners to agree to blocking the mining of a current transaction block where the moving of stolen bitcoins in.But mostlikely miners would not agree to such terms because they will lose some profits if they will not continue on running mining each block.

mos20

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There currently are bitcoins and wallet that are blacklisted by the government but you generally don't want that, once you block or partially block the usage of some coins they will start being traded at a discount, and you'd end up with individual bitcoins being worth different values than eachother.
One of the main reasons why currencies work is fungibility, you can't break one of the main properties of a currency Judy because someone's funds got stolen.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

Bitcoin's protocol doesn't know anything about stolen coins, transaction are valid when they are signed by corresponding private keys. It's impossible to mark coins as stolen automatically, so to do this we would need to change the protocol and introduce a trusted third party to do this, but wait a second, Bitcoin was created to remove all trusted third parties, which it successfully did, and now you want to introduce them back? That would turn Bitcoin into Paypal, except it would be shitty, because fees are higher and speed is slower.

gentlemand

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Theoretically miners could refuse to mine a transaction that attempted to move stolen coins, but you'd need the majority to refuse and it's not as if they all work closely together. It also would be probably down to pools to do it as many miners won't check what they're actually processing.

Since they're only in it for the money you could include a ginormous fee to tempt them and I believe that's happened with hacks in the past.

TimeBits

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https://cointelegraph.com/news/feds-claim-proceeds-from-seized-silk-road-fortune-at-only-334-per-bitcoin

Like why do the feds get to sell the coins? It makes no sense and now Mark Karpeles has 600k + coins.

TimeBits

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Quote from: Jimmy Crypto on June 01, 2019, 04:47:42 PM

Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

If the new address was known, exchanges could blacklist the addresses. But eventually, the culprit could find a way to offload the coins.

I am talking about the bitcoin network blacklist the coins, not the exchange.

Jimmy Crypto

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Quote from: TimeBits on June 01, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Let`s us say that a exchange got hacked, Would there be anyway to ban those bitcoins? like blacklist the stolen coins so they cannot be used on the network? I know about going back in time with consensus of the network to a earlier block or forking and using that new chain, but could you just not ban the stolen coins? I mean make a way to do that?

If the new address was known, exchanges could blacklist the address. But eventually, the culprit could find a way to offload the coins.

Topic: Anyway to block usage of stolen coins? - page 2. (Read 465 times)