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Topic: Apparently Stalin was good guy who killed no one... (Read 6907 times)

hero member
Activity: 926
Merit: 1001
weaving spiders come not here
It wasn't police, it was the special forces tasked with exterminating enemies of state.

It was the state, whether it was law enforcement or secret police or national intelligencia.

I am glad you are relatively unaffected by the injustices your ancestors have faced at the hands of their oppressors.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035

This idiot should tell this to my great grandparents, who had the privilege of having armed men break into their house, line them against the wall, and execute them right in front of my 10 year old grandfather, then have all their property and house confiscated, just because they were Counts.

What happened to your family was a crime, but it had nothing to do with police criminality, misconduct, nor breach of the trust of the public who employs them.
Police react, and they have no legal responsibility to do anything other than react. In America, the Supreme Court has upheld that law enforcement has no obligation to protect the citizens not in their custody.

It wasn't police, it was the special forces tasked with exterminating enemies of state. Back then it was somewhat common to see a black car drive up to an apartment building in the middle of the night, bring out someone with a bag over their head, and never see or hear from a neighbor again. But I was mainly blaming Stalin for that, in response to the video.

I am very sorry for your loss.

Don't be. It was way before I, or even my parents, were born, and though my ancestors lots their wealth, we still survived, and me not knowing any other life, it didn't really affect me at all. (Actually, a lot of our wealth was lost a bit before this, when one of my great*x grandfathers gambled and whored most of it away. It may have saved us a bit, since it made my family a smaller target, and not everyone was wiped out.)
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
They aren't smart enough to be Sociopaths.

Sociopaths can be stupid, too. Stupid sociopaths peddle their poison on internet forums or in classrooms, rather than becoming the world leaders they really wish they could be.

exactly.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
They aren't smart enough to be Sociopaths.

Sociopaths can be stupid, too. Stupid sociopaths peddle their poison on internet forums or in classrooms, rather than becoming the world leaders they really wish they could be.
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
They aren't smart enough to be Sociopaths.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
People praising democidal mass murderers.

Sociopaths, everywhere.
member
Activity: 88
Merit: 10
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
About Stalin we can say a lot of good and bad both. But he was the one who took the country with the plow and left it with a nuclear bomb and well-developed industry. He was genious manager.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1007
I can't believe that this level of discussion (in the video) is still going on. All those false dichotomies and in-the-box thinking.

It's not about communism vs capitalism, it's about authority vs freedom.

Stalin killed people, Pinochet killed people.

Socialism is not bad, as long as it's voluntary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_spain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH43YHaUGyQ

Speaking of Orwell, this is what he had to say about it:

Quote
I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life—snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.—had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master.

[...]

This was in late December 1936, less than seven months ago as I write, and yet it is a period that has already receded into enormous distance. Later events have obliterated it much more completely than they have obliterated 1935, or 1905, for that matter. I had come to Spain with some notion of writing newspaper articles, but I had joined the militia almost immediately, because at that time and in that atmosphere it seemed the only conceivable thing to do. The Anarchists were still in virtual control of Catalonia and the revolution was still in full swing. To anyone who had been there since the beginning it probably seemed even in December or January that the revolutionary period was ending; but when one came straight from England the aspect of Barcelona was something startling and overwhelming. It was the first time that I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle. Practically every building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red flags and with the red and black flag of the Anarchists; every wall was scrawled with the hammer and sickle and with the initials of the revolutionary parties; almost every church had been gutted and its images burnt. Churches here and there were being systematically demolished by gangs of workmen. Every shop and cafe had an inscription saying that it had been collectivized; even the bootblacks had been collectivized and their boxes painted red and black. Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the face and treated you as an equal. Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. Nobody said 'Senor' or 'Don' or even 'Ústed'; everyone called everyone else 'Comrade' or 'Thou', and said 'Salud!' instead of 'Buenos días'. Tipping had been forbidden by law since the time of Primo de Rivera; almost my first experience was receiving a lecture from a hotel manager for trying to tip a lift-boy. There were no private motor-cars, they had all been commandeered, and the trams and taxis and much of the other transport were painted red and black. The revolutionary posters were everywhere, flaming from the walls in clean reds and blues that made the few remaining advertisements look like daubs of mud. Down the Ramblas, the wide central artery of the town where crowds of people streamed constantly to and fro, the loud-speakers were bellowing revolutionary songs all day and far into the night. And it was the aspect of the crowds that was the queerest thing of all. In outward appearance it was a town in which the wealthy classes had practically ceased to exist. Except for a small number of women and foreigners there were no 'well-dressed' people at all. Practically everyone wore rough working-class clothes, or blue overalls or some variant of militia uniform. All this was queer and moving. There was much in this that I did not understand, in some ways I did not even like it, but I recognized it immediately as a state of affairs worth fighting for...so far as one could judge the people were contented and hopeful. There was no unemployment, and the price of living was still extremely low; you saw very few conspicuously destitute people, and no beggars except the gypsies. Above all, there was a belief in the revolution and the future, a feeling of having suddenly emerged into an era of equality and freedom. Human beings were trying to behave as human beings and not as cogs in the capitalist machine."

One man's utopia is another man's dystopia. Just let people self-organize in any way they want, I say.

hero member
Activity: 926
Merit: 1001
weaving spiders come not here

This idiot should tell this to my great grandparents, who had the privilege of having armed men break into their house, line them against the wall, and execute them right in front of my 10 year old grandfather, then have all their property and house confiscated, just because they were Counts.

What happened to your family was a crime, but it had nothing to do with police criminality, misconduct, nor breach of the trust of the public who employs them.

Police react, and they have no legal responsibility to do anything other than react. In America, the Supreme Court has upheld that law enforcement has no obligation to protect the citizens not in their custody.

When those we have trusted break that trust, and harm us, we must band together to fight them, because they are no better than those people who murdered your family.

I am very sorry for your loss.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Penn is the shit.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
[AnCap,] if ever achieved is entirely barbaric in its treatment of those that cannot fend for themselves.



Well said, Penn.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
My point: The failure of Communist regimes are not because the people who run them are socialists but because they are fundamentalists.

No, I'm pretty sure Communism being a shitty way to run anything larger than a farm has something to do with it.

How about many small farms for example?

Individually, yeah. Collectively, doubtful. Central planning would start to set in, and we know how disastrous that ends up being. Might work, might not. Probably dependent on the number of farms, and the personalities of the farmers.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
My point: The failure of Communist regimes are not because the people who run them are socialists but because they are fundamentalists.

No, I'm pretty sure Communism being a shitty way to run anything larger than a farm has something to do with it.

How about many small farms for example?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

This idiot should tell this to my great grandparents, who had the privilege of having armed men break into their house, line them against the wall, and execute them right in front of my 10 year old grandfather, then have all their property and house confiscated, just because they were Counts.

Ah! A fellow relative of a deposed royal line! I don't get to run into many of those. The US are the ones who kicked my family out of power: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Kamehameha

But anyway, back on-topic...

My point: The failure of Communist regimes are not because the people who run them are socialists but because they are fundamentalists.

No, I'm pretty sure Communism being a shitty way to run anything larger than a farm has something to do with it.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0

This idiot should tell this to my great grandparents, who had the privilege of having armed men break into their house, line them against the wall, and execute them right in front of my 10 year old grandfather, then have all their property and house confiscated, just because they were Counts.

Yah.  It's sad that idiots like that rarely get the chance to face what they've been clamoring for (and then mutter "oh, god, what have I done").  If they did, Darwin's theories would have taken care of these idiots a loooong time ago.

Of course there are other idiots who think that with a "softer, gentler communism" (sometimes they even name it "socialism", as if shit tasted different because one named it steak) the problem of having to threaten or use violence across the board would be solved.  Behehehe.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
It's fundamentalism that's moronic, independently of the flavor  Roll Eyes
Amen!

Thanks, I've been itching to use one of these...

Your logical fallacy is...

I didn't offer a compromize, I stated a fact.
Fundamentalism is a distinct process and there is not middle ground between differnt kinds of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism always leads to tyranny and it is fueld by ignorance not by rigorousity.

Then your comment is significantly off-topic. I took it to mean that either of the two extremes presented here was a poor choice, and that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. But I agree, that fundamentalism, fueled by ignorance does indeed always lead to tyranny.

Off the topic of your own posts perhaps Wink

But in response to OP and the guy in the video I think it's spot on.
My point: The failure of Communist regimes are not because the people who run them are socialists but because they are fundamentalists.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035

This idiot should tell this to my great grandparents, who had the privilege of having armed men break into their house, line them against the wall, and execute them right in front of my 10 year old grandfather, then have all their property and house confiscated, just because they were Counts.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
It's fundamentalism that's moronic, independently of the flavor  Roll Eyes
Amen!

Thanks, I've been itching to use one of these...

Your logical fallacy is...

I didn't offer a compromize, I stated a fact.
Fundamentalism is a distinct process and there is not middle ground between differnt kinds of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism always leads to tyranny and it is fueld by ignorance not by rigorousity.

Then your comment is significantly off-topic. I took it to mean that either of the two extremes presented here was a poor choice, and that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. But I agree, that fundamentalism, fueled by ignorance does indeed always lead to tyranny.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
It's fundamentalism that's moronic, independently of the flavor  Roll Eyes
Amen!

Thanks, I've been itching to use one of these...

Your logical fallacy is...

I didn't offer a compromize, I stated a fact.
Fundamentalism is a distinct process and there is not middle ground between differnt kinds of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism always leads to tyranny and it is fueld by ignorance not by rigorousity.
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