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Topic: AR-15 lower (the important part with the serial number) from 3d printer (Read 3983 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
So I wonder how long before they make fully automatic suppressed guns? Will teflon tipped rounds be far behind? Here's another disruptive technology that is outpacing the ability of governments to control.

Printing a complete, functioning firearm is a far cry from an AR-15 lower. Do you realize what kind of pressure levels that the chamber and barrel must withstand?

A decent machine shop can make all kinds of firearms today though. As far as suppression goes, that depends heavily on the ammunition.

Teflon coated bullets are pure media hype. The rounds were armor piercing because of the tungsten alloy they were made from. The teflon coating was used to help reduce barrel wear. Most high powered rifle rounds, which can be purchased just about anywhere today, are armor piercing.

3d printers will never make something capable of withstanding firing pressures. Now, home CNC machines.... that's a little more likely. The thing is, a "machine shop" is getting to the point where it's hobby-level stuff. Where two decades ago, a hobbyist might have had a router, maybe a lathe, two decades from now they're going to have a CNC, and 3d printer, and who knows what else. Hobbyists will be able to churn out anything from a drone aircraft to a fully functional firearm, in just a few days in the workshop. Media attention has so far focused on the impact of that fact on the manufacturing industry, but neglected its impact on government.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
So I wonder how long before they make fully automatic suppressed guns? Will teflon tipped rounds be far behind? Here's another disruptive technology that is outpacing the ability of governments to control.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
When technology evolves to the point that everyone has the ability to give themselves the tech to build a device in their own garage that can blow the world up, it stands to reason that there will be at least one that will do so. Is that exciting, or is it definitely not so exciting?

The excitement level is irrelevant. The important part, is that this IS a possibility. And that the appropriate response is NOT totalitarian police states for all, just because you fear the possibility.

And for the umpteenth time, if you believe it is, you are wasting your time espousing such a sentiment here.

As far as 3d printing of guns? Yes, totally excited about it. I'm looking forward to acquiring a 3d printer even more now. Cheesy

legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
The means to manufacture weapons (guns) has been available to most people at the cost of 1-2K USD in machining equipment and a little ingenuity.

For example, some interesting submachine gun plans here http://thehomegunsmith.com/

I've had an idea for a Six Shooter Shotgun made from pipes floating around my head for the last couple of days (making a single shot - shotgun requires some steel pipes, a bit of wod and a nail).

The most difficult part to machine is the rifling in the barrel (the lack of which makes the above sub-machine gun very innacurate).

All 3D printers do is bring this ability to someone who doesn't do metalwork.

Really I'm surprised that there are not traveling arms factories drifting around places like the US, UK and other countries, they'd make a fortune pumping out cheap, low quality guns and ammo.

Well, I'm not sure that there aren't. I don't travel in the gun-heavy circles, so I don't know, but I find it hard to believe that this isn't becoming popular. I guess I'll visit the next local gun show and ask around.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
When technology evolves to the point that everyone has the ability to give themselves the tech to build a device in their own garage that can blow the world up, it stands to reason that there will be at least one that will do so. Is that exciting, or is it definitely not so exciting?
M16s can destroy worlds?

Totally missed the philosophical observation on the inevitable trajectory of technology and the slippery slope it creates, did you?
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
When technology evolves to the point that everyone has the ability to give themselves the tech to build a device in their own garage that can blow the world up, it stands to reason that there will be at least one that will do so. Is that exciting, or is it definitely not so exciting?
M16s can destroy worlds?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
When technology evolves to the point that everyone has the ability to give themselves the tech to build a device in their own garage that can blow the world up, it stands to reason that there will be at least one that will do so. Is that exciting, or is it definitely not so exciting?
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
You are supposed to register as a firearm manufacturer, there are different regulations for manufacture than ownership. All firearms require a serial number therefore defacto registration.
Having a serial number does not mean you have to "register" with anyone other than yourself.

You don't have to apply for a license to be a firearms manufacturer unless you start selling them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968

From your own link:
"Firearms manufactured prior to the Gun Control Act and firearms manufactured by non-FFLs remain exempt from the serial number requirement."

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
The means to manufacture weapons (guns) has been available to most people at the cost of 1-2K USD in machining equipment and a little ingenuity.

For example, some interesting submachine gun plans here http://thehomegunsmith.com/

I've had an idea for a Six Shooter Shotgun made from pipes floating around my head for the last couple of days (making a single shot - shotgun requires some steel pipes, a bit of wod and a nail).

The most difficult part to machine is the rifling in the barrel (the lack of which makes the above sub-machine gun very innacurate).

All 3D printers do is bring this ability to someone who doesn't do metalwork.

Really I'm surprised that there are not traveling arms factories drifting around places like the US, UK and other countries, they'd make a fortune pumping out cheap, low quality guns and ammo.

legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
You are supposed to register as a firearm manufacturer, there are different regulations for manufacture than ownership. All firearms require a serial number therefore defacto registration.
Having a serial number does not mean you have to "register" with anyone other than yourself.

You don't have to apply for a license to be a firearms manufacturer unless you start selling them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Well, depending on the situation and person, maybe it's just easier (and possibly cheaper) in the long-term to gift them a 3D printer instead?

Not a bad idea, there.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!
You don't have to apply for a license to be a firearms manufacturer unless you start selling them.

Everything I've read supports this.

(I know you're not a lawyer but: ) Does non-profit transfer, ie a gift, count?

Well, depending on the situation and person, maybe it's just easier (and possibly cheaper) in the long-term to gift them a 3D printer instead?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
You don't have to apply for a license to be a firearms manufacturer unless you start selling them.

Everything I've read supports this.

(I know you're not a lawyer but: ) Does non-profit transfer, ie a gift, count?
Probably doesn't legally, but if I was making my own lowers, I wouldn't risk them being in the wild. The ATF has gone to extreme length to put people who haven't broken the law in prison.

OTOH, you can get whoever you want to give it to to come over and press "print" and then they made it on your equipment. Much safer.

That makes sense. Thanks.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
You don't have to apply for a license to be a firearms manufacturer unless you start selling them.

Everything I've read supports this.

(I know you're not a lawyer but: ) Does non-profit transfer, ie a gift, count?
Probably doesn't legally, but if I was making my own lowers, I wouldn't risk them being in the wild. The ATF has gone to extreme lengths to put people who haven't broken the law in prison.

OTOH, you can get whoever you want to give it to to come over and press "print" and then they made it on your equipment. Much safer.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
You don't have to apply for a license to be a firearms manufacturer unless you start selling them.

Everything I've read supports this.

(I know you're not a lawyer but: ) Does non-profit transfer, ie a gift, count?
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
You are supposed to register as a firearm manufacturer, there are different regulations for manufacture than ownership. All firearms require a serial number therefore defacto registration.
Having a serial number does not mean you have to "register" with anyone other than yourself.

You don't have to apply for a license to be a firearms manufacturer unless you start selling them.
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
You are supposed to register as a firearm manufacturer, there are different regulations for manufacture than ownership. All firearms require a serial number therefore defacto registration.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Even if you made a zip gun out of some old steel pipe, according to the law you are still required to register it.

Ah well. I did say I might be wrong. Wink
legendary
Activity: 3318
Merit: 2008
First Exclusion Ever
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/579913_3D_printed_lower___yes__it_works_.html




So he said he has fired over 200 rounds so far with no problems. What does this mean for society? We will probably live to see an age where 3d printers can make anything out of poop and dirt, and then  a 3d printer that can make a 3d printer! Bottom line, fuck patents, ring in the printer's age.

Nice. And if my understanding of the US gun laws are correct, since that makes you the "manufacturer" of the weapon (the lower receiver, with the serial number is, effectively the "gun", and everything else can be bought as replacement parts), you don't have to register it or anything?

And yes, Printers can already make ~60% of the parts needed to make another printer. Certainly all the structural parts, and they're working on the control circuits. Printing circuit boards is a complex process.

Here's a nifty little story By Cory Doctorow, "Printcrime" http://craphound.com/?p=573

Even if you made a zip gun out of some old steel pipe, according to the law you are still required to register it.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
Sweet. There is a hackerspace here in Madison. I may have to take the printer class now.
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