ARBITRAGE: Bitstamp -> CEX.IO - Proof of Concept - page 3.

gokayc

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Quote from: Alice Nuttal on May 24, 2017, 09:30:33 AM

Hi everyone! Wink

I am newbie on bitcointalk.org and hope that I created thread in right place.

I have an idea how to make arbitrage between exchanges and make money without any risk.

But I am trying to undertand where I am wrong.

The idea is simple - buy bitcoin on Bitstamp @$2374.99 and sell on CEX.IO @$2540.00.
Profit is $165.01 per 1 BTC.

Could you dab me where I am wrong? Roll Eyes

If you have big enough amount money then it is worth to wait even 20 days. Otherwise doesn't worth to wait. I know some people doing this all the time but most of them doing this as a company so they can play with big amount money.

holtzmann

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For me, it is pretty much like short-term investing. You put your money in some asset, keep it and then sell after a short period of time. Does it work like this? Or is it better to sell bitcoins right away? Huh

Alice Nuttal

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 03, 2017, 02:24:46 AM

p.s. did you try it and see if you can make profit in reality or is it still at concept/theory stage?

I haven’t tried it yet. Actually, I started this topic to get some advice. I am studying the pros and cons now, so I greatly appreciate that you share your opinion here.

P.S. I am still going through verification process on Bitstamp. It was much faster on Cex.io.
Besides, the difference in rates is around $50 now. Apparently, someone has already followed my advice Grin

Herbert2020

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sorry i completely forgot about this topic Roll Eyes

Quote from: Alice Nuttal on June 01, 2017, 11:06:40 AM

Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 01, 2017, 01:57:43 AM

now lets look at the orderbooks.
if you sell ~1BTC the price will drop $10
and if you sell ~2BTC the price will drop $25

strange assumption. Do you really think such amount will influence the market?

it was not an assumption. i opened up cex.io and checked out the orderbook of that time. and by that time if you sold those amounts price would have fallen that much.
in deeper prices the orderbook volume became more though.

Quote from: Alice Nuttal on June 01, 2017, 11:13:34 AM

Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 01, 2017, 01:57:43 AM

apart from withdrawal fee you will be paying trading fees too.
$20,000 * 2.5% = $500 * 2 = $1000
i don't know how much the fiat deposit in bitstamp and withdrawal from cex.io will cost

according to fee schedule it's 0.25%, and not 2.5% https://www.bitstamp.net/fee_schedule/

yeah, sorry i fixed it!

p.s. did you try it and see if you can make profit in reality or is it still at concept/theory stage?

dossantosleite

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EU countries have advantages because depositing fiat it's free and withdrawing using sepa cost only about $10.

Pamadar

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Quote from: Alice Nuttal on June 02, 2017, 08:37:45 AM

Quote from: Monnt on June 01, 2017, 12:47:17 PM

Now prices are into $2500 ranges. It means cex prices started to converge toward other market prices. (maybe someone started arbitrage after seeing this topic Wink

)

Well, the price on Bitstamp is $2433.98 now and $2560 on CEX.IO. The difference is still within $120. And yes, probably someone began to level the prices Roll Eyes

its interesting to see if there's really someone out there who's trying to play with this arbs game as we knew that within a split of the seconds price will move and the transaction period will be the concern, but if done correctly and timing went to your direction its really an easy money to deal.

Alice Nuttal

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Quote from: Monnt on June 01, 2017, 12:47:17 PM

Now prices are into $2500 ranges. It means cex prices started to converge toward other market prices. (maybe someone started arbitrage after seeing this topic Wink

)

Well, the price on Bitstamp is $2433.98 now and $2560 on CEX.IO. The difference is still within $120. And yes, probably someone began to level the prices Roll Eyes

Alice Nuttal

member

Activity: 113

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Quote from: Monnt on June 01, 2017, 12:47:17 PM

Yes, that must be one of the practical problem of arbitrage trading. Price gaps may fade away in quick time or will fall into narrow range which may not cover the trading and withdraw fees. Probably we may utilize such gap for one time and these gaps may not available for subsequent tries.

But we may still keep money on Bitstamp, whereas bitcoins - on CEX.IO, so that to buy and sell bitcoins simultaneously.

Razzoel

newbie

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Quote from: Serpens66 on June 01, 2017, 04:00:43 PM

Quote from: norad73 on June 01, 2017, 03:16:16 PM

Instead of trying to arbitrage with FIAT, why not arbitrage with coin pairs? There seem to be large enough differences between exchanges that it could be profitable. Also, less fees and faster transfers because it is all in crypto mean that one can probably cycle the arbitrage over and over again.

bter does not allow btc withdrawals.

and all the prices you see there are "last prices". This means nothings.
btcmarkets for example has a spread from 0.09 to 0.096. So you wont get 0.0933 as you see in screenshot.
There is no arbitrage profit in crypto to crypto markets, cause it is that easy to do and many many bots are doing this already.

I wouldnt say that there is no arbitrage in different crypto markets. There are small price differences time to time. You just have to keep your eyes open. Its not an easy way to make profit, but easy money doesn't exist anyways unless you get lucky.

Serpens66

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Quote from: norad73 on June 01, 2017, 03:16:16 PM

Instead of trying to arbitrage with FIAT, why not arbitrage with coin pairs? There seem to be large enough differences between exchanges that it could be profitable. Also, less fees and faster transfers because it is all in crypto mean that one can probably cycle the arbitrage over and over again.

bter does not allow btc withdrawals.

and all the prices you see there are "last prices". This means nothings.
btcmarkets for example has a spread from 0.09 to 0.096. So you wont get 0.0933 as you see in screenshot.
There is no arbitrage profit in crypto to crypto markets, cause it is that easy to do and many many bots are doing this already.

norad73

newbie

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Instead of trying to arbitrage with FIAT, why not arbitrage with coin pairs? There seem to be large enough differences between exchanges that it could be profitable. Also, less fees and faster transfers because it is all in crypto mean that one can probably cycle the arbitrage over and over again.

https://snag.gy/PjQM70.jpg

el kaka22

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www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games

Quote from: Serpens66 on May 24, 2017, 04:22:58 PM

sounds like it could work, but I have no experience how easy the card withdrawal is.

I would suggest you try it

Before trying, I like to suggest to make sure about viable fiat withdraw methods from cex. More importantly, need to verify what the requirements to be eligible for fiat withdrawals. Moving fiats might be a very big concern here. If anyone come with feasible solutions for fiats movements then he can enjoy sure shot profits from these type of arbitrage trading.

dossantosleite

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on June 01, 2017, 07:43:39 AM

Quote from: dossantosleite on June 01, 2017, 04:56:20 AM

You should register on cex.io and you will see that selling btc price is much lower. For example, right now btc price in usd on cex.io is $2585, but if you want to sell btc inside this exchanger, the rate is $2392 for 1 btc...

you made me go an log in to my CEX.io account after a year or so

here is a screenshot of the market at https://cex.io/trade
you can see that when you sell you sell to 2600ish price, so i guess you were looking in a wrong place that you saw $2392

my mistake, i clicked on sell/buy section not on actual trade section... Wink

Monnt

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 01, 2017, 01:57:43 AM

if it was possible someone with more experience would have been doing it already! so the difference wouldn't have existed in first place.

Yes, that must be one of the practical problem of arbitrage trading. Price gaps may fade away in quick time or will fall into narrow range which may not cover the trading and withdraw fees. Probably we may utilize such gap for one time and these gaps may not available for subsequent tries.

Quote from: BitcoinHodler on June 01, 2017, 07:43:39 AM

here is a screenshot of the market at https://cex.io/trade
you can see that when you sell you sell to 2600ish price

Now prices are into $2500 ranges. It means cex prices started to converge toward other market prices. (maybe someone started arbitrage after seeing this topic Wink

)

Alice Nuttal

member

Activity: 113

Merit: 10

Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 01, 2017, 01:57:43 AM

apart from withdrawal fee you will be paying trading fees too.
$20,000 * 2.5% = $500 * 2 = $1000
i don't know how much the fiat deposit in bitstamp and withdrawal from cex.io will cost

according to fee schedule it's 0.25%, and not 2.5% https://www.bitstamp.net/fee_schedule/

Alice Nuttal

member

Activity: 113

Merit: 10

Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 01, 2017, 01:57:43 AM

now lets look at the orderbooks.
if you sell ~1BTC the price will drop $10
and if you sell ~2BTC the price will drop $25

strange assumption. Do you really think such amount will influence the market?

BitcoinHodler

hero member

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HODLing is an art, not just a word...

Quote from: dossantosleite on June 01, 2017, 04:56:20 AM

You should register on cex.io and you will see that selling btc price is much lower. For example, right now btc price in usd on cex.io is $2585, but if you want to sell btc inside this exchanger, the rate is $2392 for 1 btc...

you made me go an log in to my CEX.io account after a year or so

here is a screenshot of the market at https://cex.io/trade
you can see that when you sell you sell to 2600ish price, so i guess you were looking in a wrong place that you saw $2392

dossantosleite

full member

Activity: 139

Merit: 100

You should register on cex.io and you will see that selling btc price is much lower. For example, right now btc price in usd on cex.io is $2585, but if you want to sell btc inside this exchanger, the rate is $2392 for 1 btc...

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: davida on June 01, 2017, 03:02:33 AM

Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 01, 2017, 01:57:43 AM

if you are new to arbitrage know this:
if it was possible someone with more experience would have been doing it already! so the difference wouldn't have existed in first place.

now lets look at the orderbooks.
if you sell ~1BTC the price will drop $10
and if you sell ~2BTC the price will drop $25

and with your 20K deposit assumption you get 8.4BTC
and selling that means price will drop $50

apart from withdrawal fee you will be paying trading fees too.
$20,000 * 2.5% = $500 * 2 = $1000
i don't know how much the fiat deposit in bitstamp and withdrawal from cex.io will cost

you need at least $21,000 + as much those two fees cost.
now figure out how much the price should be for you to sell!
(21,000+ double fees) / 8.4

I actually respect your opinion and analysis but i totally disagree with you sir.

Visiting these 2 websites you will discovered that the deposit and withdrawal fees shall not have any serious effect on your profits because the margin difference is really wide.

1, The potential threat to this arbitrage is the volume of the buy order.
2, Some countries cannot make a withdrawal and such countries were all listed.

Those 2 things are commonly be encountered or shall we called the risk when we do arbitrage trading. yes,risk would somehow near to zero as long you do know how to calculate all the fees and duration of transfers. This is only the thing that do really affect our profits and if we saw we are on gain then better to continue this thing for generating some income Grin

davida

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Activity: 585

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Quote from: Herbert2020 on June 01, 2017, 01:57:43 AM

if you are new to arbitrage know this:
if it was possible someone with more experience would have been doing it already! so the difference wouldn't have existed in first place.

now lets look at the orderbooks.
if you sell ~1BTC the price will drop $10
and if you sell ~2BTC the price will drop $25

and with your 20K deposit assumption you get 8.4BTC
and selling that means price will drop $50

apart from withdrawal fee you will be paying trading fees too.
$20,000 * 2.5% = $500 * 2 = $1000
i don't know how much the fiat deposit in bitstamp and withdrawal from cex.io will cost

you need at least $21,000 + as much those two fees cost.
now figure out how much the price should be for you to sell!
(21,000+ double fees) / 8.4

I actually respect your opinion and analysis but i totally disagree with you sir.

Visiting these 2 websites you will discovered that the deposit and withdrawal fees shall not have any serious effect on your profits because the margin difference is really wide.

1, The potential threat to this arbitrage is the volume of the buy order.
2, Some countries cannot make a withdrawal and such countries were all listed.

Topic: ARBITRAGE: Bitstamp -> CEX.IO - Proof of Concept - page 3. (Read 5184 times)