Topic: Are Administrators/Moderators and Staff members useless? (Read 457 times)

Consider everything said above, and this forum have no rules, no moderation of anything.
Prepare...

Seems like most of you guys never visit forum with rules...
Even the Moderators ask why would they have more "powers".
Check every single other forum, or don't because that won't change a thing.
I don't need to defend myself, defending is for people doing wrong things.
If that guy that all of you trying to link me thinks like me that scams should be moderated, and trust rating should be also based on successful exchange, then i can only agree with him.
Sadly for all of you, i can't be someone else than me, but i can agree with everyone that think right.
If you guys agree that scams should remain moderated and trust rating should give "powers", then nothing is going well around.
Scammers will change accounts, "trusted" people with "powers" can run or ruin anything they want, and it seems only empty words open doors here.
Now i see many reasons why the market section is dead and people looking for different places to make business.
If i were wrong, i would just tell my chinese workers to open 5 accounts and run the business without me ( it is not like i have time or need to spend it here).
But consider i haven't done anything bad so far for 15+ years of trading, it feels bad to agree with bullshits.

Come on actmyname you didnt even need to read that post, you've read it all before 100x and seen the evidence.

This is meta right, you dont need presentation of accompanying and corroborating evidence you've examined multiple times before right?

If you claim that isn't true then just pick a point and ask me to fill you in.

Why not finish this rebuttal first. This was an especially poor defense of the undeniably broken merit system before it was made far worse.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-most-important-thread-you-can-contribute-to-this-yearno-kidding-5088852


I believe you attempted some defenses of a few scum bags in that one

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-the-official-dirty-turds-poll-which-dt-needs-flushing-first-5170789


I always enjoy drilling down on things especially if we are examining individuals here in DT including some mods.


So pick a point and let's go. I don't enjoy needing to hold back on members due to uncertainty of their true nature or intent. This is an itch I've wanted to scratch for a long time. Remaining respectful to people that may be deserving of none is an unpleasant position.

It doesn't really matter how concise a person is when detailing the truth.

Those that wish to locate the truth will find it.  Those that don't,will provide multiple reasons for avoiding it.

Some people are often intimidated by the language and presentation of those with a nice command of English.


The truth is never concerned by max drill down.
 

Whom or which part of the broken systems of control would you like to produce any form of robust counter argument?

This is regarding the useless nature or mods right? I mean as Welch says mods like to see DT manage the subjective scamming or potential scamming. Lol what could possibly go wrong. No conflict of interests there then.

I mean mods also like to allow proven scammers to deal with potential or possible scammers.
Mods like to deal with protecting proven scammers.

Mods like lots of sub optimal things.


Polonius paraphrased version

Put up or shut up, quit finding excuses to ignore the truth.
You defend scammers and the corrupt knowingly and repeatedly then you'll need to be treated and spoken to as a corrupt scammer.


===========================================

This need for it to be easily digestible or should be ignored is just another excuse like all the other excuses for denying the truth I've listed.

If the topic is not important enough for you to dredge through 754 words that's fine just ignore my posts.
Look there is your out. Just don't pretend it could all be debunked if only you had the time to read it first.

I'm not taking any hostages in future.  Debunk my points or ignore them but no excusing/ defending independently verifiable scammy, corrupt and financially dangerous behaviors from DT mods or

Pick your member and defend them. Let's see how it goes.

There I go again... rambling on ..too many wordzzz

Second that. That's what came to my mind when I read the post. The blame will never be ended even if it moderate by the administration or staff.

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By the way, everyone could leave feedback as they want and it's a right as a member of the forum. But only feedback will be visible left by default trust members. And default trust members aren't the same as a regular members. Default trusted members are voted by the community or selected by some other default trusted members. Means their feedback has value somehow. The feedback is either false or right, it will not prevent you from using the forum and you have the right to open a thread if you wrongly get feedback. The community has the right to remove someone from the default trusted list if they think your feedback is wrong. If the community doesn't respond on your reputation thread means your blame isn't valid. That's how feedback is controlled by the community, and it should be.

The problem with presenting information in such a non-digestable format every time is that regardless of the actual evidence that is or isn't provided, the increased time investment disincentives reading. 754 words; 4,358 characters. That gets you pretty much halfway through JFK's inaugural speech.

I could write essay-format replies, delving into every nook and cranny, questioning and presenting counterarguments ad infinitum - or until the word count limit. Why bother doing that if the discussion doesn't move in that direction, though? I could address concerns much more efficiently by actually addressing the concerns people raise directly.

A great man once decreed:

   Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
   And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
   I will be brief

If they were only useless that would be a vast improvement.

Just take a look at the independently verifiable truth.

The vast majority are

1. Proven scammer supporters
2. Willing scam facilitators for pay
3. Down for censoring whistleblowers and abusing their accounts.
4. Scammer sympathisers who cry when they leave the forum
5. Self serving broke bum parasites that will do, say or agree with anything to keep their sig
6. Will stand by and observe all of the above and say nothing to remain inside with these dregs.


You would have a big problem mentioning any well known meta posters that I can not undeniably demonstrate fall into these categories.

Then you have fools like Welch who keep spouting debunked moronic drivel that has been debunked 100x before in the objective standards thread started by TS that TOAA had covered multiple times before.

Subjective scamming? " the community decide"

The community? You mean a bunch of proven scammers and scammer supporters?
The community is long gone but they didnt get to decide shit.
Well they got to decide to leave I guess lol

Go ahead test it out ... bring me one of the regular DT meta posters or mods or theymos or the 2bit selective scam hunters.
I mean the true dirt bags are mostly gone but their supporters like hilarious, suchmoon, Welch a big tman ass muncher, theymos a big lauda fan and all the other weasels are still here leaching the remaining dust from the forum.

Go ahead bring some suggestions including all the scum like nutildah and pharmacist aka hugeblackwoman

The bct human centipede of broke down dregs all trying to stomp out any whistleblowers or even competition to their racket.

The telling point above their own past scamming and scammer supporting and protecting was the rejection of removing subjectivity and introducing the objective standards as a transparent and basis for the trust system.

TS did seemingly influence theymos to make a half hearted attempt at that but he totally fucked it up and made it worse by leaving the subjective corrupt red tag system in place and even lower the threshold for red tagging.

Not that he ever upheld his empty words for the proven scamming or strong evidence of scamming and just allowed his pals like lauda and other parasites like nutildah to give out red tags for presenting independently verifiable evidence of their own financially motivated wrongdoing.

So useless would be a huge improvement over the deliberately negative and corrupt self serving input they have here.

Watch nobody debunk anything I've just said.
Then start to realise that complaining here and expecting any support from those theymos has placed in power directly or indirectly is a waste of time.

Imagine asking people that have been here since near the start or many many years that are still broke down bums to willingly compete on a fair playing field if they dont have to? They dont want that.

They are not useless, they are deliberately and wilfully corrupt and dirty.

Hence why meta is an echo chamber that will tell you everything is perfect and optimal whilst scammers punish whistleblowers whilst leaching max dust from the forum.

People dont like being broke
People dont like being unpopular

Those 2 forces have moulded what has become the concentrated mass of low functioning dregs that remain here.

They have leveraged and destroyed the board on this bullshit " we must be able to guess at who is a scammer before they scam"
Whilst at the same time saying our pals can scam and have multiple instances of financially motivated wrong doing and we will block all warnings on them and punish anyone whistleblowing on them.

That is not just useless is it?

That's like describing a rapist as useless.  Admin and mods will not only standby and allow scammers to abuse their whistleblowers they will join in and support that. They will also resist objective transparent standards as a basis for the trust system.

If you are innocent just make another account. They'll be looking for an excuse now.
If you are a scammer just leave.


Don't waste time in meta though, you would never get a fair hearing here.

There will be zero credible challenge to this post because it's all been done before and anyone of the vocal and active DT meta posters knows they have been crushed by the truth every time they attempt a rebuttal.


Understand just what that means about the people running this show now.

Why would staff be any better? If we were given the ability to moderate feedback then you'd likely just be complaining about us instead. Besides, you only have neutral feedback.

Op I read your thread in Reputation https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57771633  You were not able to present evidence to defend yourself same as here....creating threads on different boards doesn't prove yourself innocence. I suggest you come clean. Reading the first thread on Reputation I saw a guilty man trying to hide behind the "internet" you didn't think you would get caught, did you?

Oh, for fuck's sake....I thought he was gone for good, but I have to agree with you on that one.  That's totally his writing style and his MO, too.  Nice catch.  I'd forgotten all about Rambotnic, but in addition to how he writes, he also clearly knows about Lauda:

And I seriously doubt he learned about all the drama surrounding OgNasty, Lauda, and everything else within the last few months.  That would be a very strange thing to do for a true newcomer to the forum, even if he registered in January of this year.  Very few newbies jump right into forum politics, and to write exactly like Rambotic?  Yeah, he's busted.

To anyone who has been paying attention, OP just effectively outed himself as Rambotnic.

Here's a good starting place for supplementary reading: For Theymos


I think scams should be moderated _and_ the trust system should be used to nail scammers. There's no reason why we can't have both.

"But then people would think this is a safe space for non-scams and we can't lead them to believe that."

Absolutely nobody here would ever think that.

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In the point of being fair, notice how even though I have upgraded my stance from "probably" a scammer to "assuredly" based on OPs voluntary contributions in this thread, I have not changed my rating to a negative (yet) as more substantial evidence should be required for that, beyond a hunch.

So you want a centralized authority telling people what they should do here?  That sounds very anti-bitcoin to me.  

I think scams should be moderated, just like every other forum I know of, but aside from that I appreciate the freedom this forum offers.  And since scams (or potential scammers) aren't moderated, it's up to the community to warn other members as they see fit.  That's why the trust system is the way it is, as messed up as it can be at times.

But damn, OP....you got a neutral trust, not a negative.  Take a look at my trust page or that of any DT member, and you'll see tons of negatives--and they're for the most part undeserved.  You won't find any DT member bitching about that, so I'd suggest you grow a thicker skin as far as your trust goes, and maybe try to refute nutildah's accusation against you instead of raging against the trust system.

Edit: My bad, I guess you are refuting the accusation against you, though in another thread.  Don't know why you made it self-moderated, because a thread like that is not the kind you want to do that with.

The best option for you at this point is to stop blabbering and leave this forum if you don't like how this forum is moderated. You can turn into a troll in an instant and start going against the grain when you don't stop blabbering and maybe you won't get any more tolerance and the neutral tag will immediately turn red.

There's nothing wrong with complaining and questioning how this forum is moderated. But be aware that the trust system you are complaining about is currently not moderated so anyone can leave positive, neutral and negative tag on your profile for whatever reason they want. But I believe that no one will touch you for no reason, you should be able to think positively about this.

I don't argue the forum rank is useful but assume it is actually useless, what are your suggestions for more useful member ranks?  

You have to differentiate between trust list and trust feedback. You can customize your trust list rather than using the default trust. If you think one member is useless or biased with their perspective (to handle scam accusation or anything else), you can exclude that member from your trust list.

• LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
• Trust list, Trust feedback and Flag. They have different use cases and Flag is more related to scam accusation.

Welsh, thanks for joining the conversation.
Well, Moderator banning user without proofs is not a good idea, but banning him after valid proof report will be great.
The way forum is being moderated give a chance to a lot of scammers, trust abusers, and gangs with "powers" to control the website.
How is that better giving the "powers" to people which are not aware how to control the things than Moderators and Administrators handle the serious issues.
Last few months i have read of things about the users here and the trust abuse.
About ognasty, lauda, and all unfair things going on.
Seems like no one care about the truth and justice here.
Giving that kind of powers to non-staff members is awful and alreadyu ruined the forum reputation.
Outside this forum, bitcointalk is known haven for scammers, worst moderation, people who use their ranks to scam/promote scam projects and stuff like that.
I've been called with different names for no reason, no proof based and trust abused without single proof.
Those things should be handled by Moderators not by people who watch to much movies...

Personally, I think allowing the community to sort out community issues is probably the best approach, especially when it comes to subjective cases. Scams aren't always obvious, and it's best to catch a scam before it happens, right? Well, a moderator banning a user just because they seem like a scammer would open a whole can of worms, while if the community does it by applying a flag or trust rating, than trust rating can be openly disputed, and the user can still actively voice their concerns, and potentially continue trading despite the allegations, because there has been times where the allegations have been false. If we were to ban those users, the only way to currently appeal a ban his to email admins or appeal in Meta to other staff users. This would likely lead to accusations of corruption, although there's plenty of those accusations thrown around over the years. At least, with the community other community users can disagree in a open way, and sort out who the most suitable users are to judge others, and therefore be included in DefaultTrust, DT2, DT3, and so on.

We all care about removing spam, there's moderators actively moderating around the clock to remove it. However, when your moderating a website the size of this forum it can be difficult. Especially, if you have a lot of users posting spam, but not enough suitable candidates for moderators.

It's not comparable. Do those forums have a eco system similar to Bitcointalk? Signature campaigns are both an advantage, and a disadvantage for the forum. We have our own eco system, but the drawback from that is it does create spam in itself. Bounties don't exist on the forums that you've mentioned, and therefore can't be compared.

The trust system is far from perfect. However, you could potentially just carry on your day ignoring it. If you use escrow, and guard against the possibility to scam, then it likely won't effect your on forum trading all that much. I don't think anyone will disagree with you here, there's been multiple instances either several forum users gang up, or they are split down the middle, and go to war with each other. That unfortunately is what people do, we can guard against that, but really we can't stop it. This is evident in almost all industries I've been involved in, and worked in.

I like your words it is very polite in my life, peyeet.

I'm not a clown, don't have time to advise you, peyeet.you're happy to be here please, the door is wide open to get your pussy out.

Dear Rambotnic, give it up already. You're so dumb you can't even sockpuppet properly. You light up like a fucking Christmas tree non-denominational holiday decoration every time you post more than 3 words. You can't beat Darwin at his game.

That's why powers should not be given to regular members.
Who are you to tell anyone where he belongs? Sythe powerbot or anywhere else?
You are brainless, and i believe Staff members are not but there is many questions...
You represent the average Bitcointalk member, trying to tell anyone to go somewhere, consider you are no one, doing nothing here also.
No one should care do members care, in other hands, Moderators should care about their forum name and reputation for sure.
Your opinion my son is useless like mine, i am just asking questions, and you giving advices...
Be yourself, do not pretend to be someone who can be helpful with advices.

If you think our mod is incompetent in dealing with problems or the belief system is being misused by certain members, why should you care about it....

You shouldn't be here, MMORPG, Powerbot, Sythe is for you you're free to troll and spam there, no members or mods care.

The proof you're still nagging here, so you still like Bitcointalk, right?

Valid report in my and everyone with brain would be like everywhere else.
Example: User "A" doing something wrong Off-in site like (malwares,scamming,phishing or anything against the forum rules).
Posting proof that's the same person doing it.
Posting proof of the malware/scam/phishing or the act against the forum rules.
Oh wait... You got me... There is no official forum rules here right?
How anyone expect to beat the scammers without official rules in first place ?
How anyone expect people to be trusted and respected without scam moderation, active Moderators with powers, and regular users with proof based feedback without powers to ruin anyone name for no reason.
Take a look on the other forums, anyone you pick. Some of them exists almost 20 years and running well with Rules. Because that's the difference between humans and animals right?
If you like to call someone a scammer, you should prove it in first place, and the Moderators itself should take care of them with ban, warning or whatever they feel responsible.
Who are you, me or anyone with or without feedback to decide who is harmful for someone ?
You are no one same as me and everyone except the Staff members, we are just visitors of someone else property.
Which host let his visitors to have powers to shit in their house ? What kind of weird shit is that?
If you were trustworthy enough to judge who is harmful and who is not, you would be a Moderator... But your decision same as mine means nothing.
For you, me and your cousin many things may be wrong and harmful but for entire country can be totally right. That's why there should be forum rules in first place... To be sure what's wrong and what is right in the forum.
This is complete disaster.
If someone was helpful to the community that's awesome, but what gives him right to play: Moderator, Supporter, Judge, Final word and anything else than helpful.

If i were choosing back in the days my customers, i would never run successful million dollar worth business.
And if you ask me personally i prefer to deal with newbies instead of long term members.
You know why? Because the stream of newbies is way longer than the long term members.
Of course every business is looking for more and more new customers (newbies). That doesn't make the long time users less important.
Most of the newbies just pass around to get what they need or get rid of. They do not care about your forum ranks, but they should care about their security. In first place if something goes wrong, that it will be moderated. Also if you have feedback it should be proof based and real, not just because someone think you may harm someone.
And what protect you of "proven legit member thru the years" just to scam quit for any reason?
We're all adults, we know the risks trading online, but with what this kind of moderation help anyone? With your opinion? Or mine?
Fuck our opinion, rules should exists for everyone.

P.S: I was going to explain you more and more about things which you don't realize, but i don't like to be punished with this time waste arguing with regular member instead of Staff member.

Many whys.

What's a valid report in your opinion? A guy may come to me and say that their service will bring my money back if I give them sensitive information such as my wallet.dat or a seed phrase. Should I deliver those to confirm that they're indeed scammers or should I make my justified preconceptions? This person may be harmful for a newbie; I choose to make this clear.

So, my counter-argument is: Why don't negatively flagged users provide their evidence that they aren't malicious to change our minds? If it's clear, we won't keep our bad feedback in their trust pages.

It shouldn't be based exclusively on trading experience. We aren't machines; we have instincts if something hits the fan.

With which person would you prefer to exchange or do anything that would require trustworthiness? A guy who has been here for over a decade and lots of users state that he should be trusted or a newly created account?

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I was going to continue answering your questions, but each one is worse than the other. I don't think that I deserve this punishment.

Since long ago.
Because that is how it is.
Because they aren't moderated... by the staff.
Yes.
Yes. Yes.

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Leave if you don't like the forum. That's advice, not a warning: you'll need to put up with worse than neutral feedback that will eventually be removed if cited without evidence.

This is my very first time seeing forum with actual useless forum rank members.
Since when and why regular members have rights to decide who is scammer, and who is legit without valid reports?
Why do regular members with feedback ( which should be based on trading experience )  have powers to make non-valid statements and abuse the trust system ?
Why do the trust system have nothing to do with "trust" and why it is even called "trust system" consider there is nothing trust based on it?
Seems like every single person who spend years on this forum to earn feedback can make everyone looks bad for no reason.
Why scams, abuses and everything bad around is not moderated, but the regular members have rights to decide what's wrong and right instead of the forum Staff/Moderators?
Is that what you call "Trust system" ?
The forum is full with non-sense, off-topic and spam and no one seems to care about it.
All the sections are spammed with off-topic posts, topics that not belong to their sub-category and just everything not make sense.
If you guys do not know how to moderate a forum, take a look at Sythe, Powerbot, MMORPG and forums that let their Moderators to take actions.
I am not the first one abused for no reason based on nothing. Actually never did any trade here because i were researching...
In middle of nowhere, a sock puppet message non-sense, and seems like his friend with "powers" decide to place neutral feedback based on nothing in my profile, just because his friends say so.
Is that how things work like here? Is this some kind of gang-team forum membership where rules and moderation means nothing?