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Topic: Are ASIC's worth the investment? - page 2. (Read 2550 times)

hero member
Activity: 873
Merit: 1007
February 10, 2013, 06:56:36 AM
#30
If you consider the sheer number of ASICs reportedly in queue the difficulty rise will be large enough to diminish returns to the point of never achieving return on investment.  Say you currently mine 25GH which is about 1/1000th of the total.  That probably costs about 20K in GPUs and boards.

Now to have 1/1000th of the hash after ASIC stabilizes you would probably need to spend well over $20k.

Unless you got in very early on the ASIC batches you're probably screwed as people will keep tossing money at it in hopes of getting rich.

I think the only ones who will see guaranteed profits from ASIC are the manufacturers (like a gun dealer arming both sides).

This is the sort of thing I'm worried about. But don't miners make a profit mining with their GPU rigs now? Why wouldn't ASIC rigs make money once all of this levels out? When the difficulty goes up, wont the value of BTC change to reflect that?

Difficulty is related to price, but both are reactionary to each other.  If the difficulty goes up and the price doesn't, a lot of miners who instantly sell what they mine usually turn off their rigs.  Then the difficulty goes down and then they power them back on again.

With ASIC however, once somebody buys that dedicated hasher it's on the network permanently.  People are unlikely to retask the ASIC units for any other purpose, so difficulty will only go up from here on, never down.

GPUs also had the advantage of easy resale.  Most of the GPUminers have already paid off their cards.  There was minimal risk buying 20 7970s if you got a decent price.  Even if you lost $50 on each that's only 1k.  Good luck selling your ASICs if Bitcoin fails.

At this point if you don't have an early ASIC order I would say hold off and just buy BTC.  If you bought when this thread was made and sold today you would have made 15% in that short time!
member
Activity: 91
Merit: 10
February 09, 2013, 01:07:38 AM
#29
I have done quite a bit of research on these ASIC's that Butterfly Labs is going to release here soon and my number one question is "Is it worth it?" Right now I am thinking yes. I believe that during the beginning phases of releasing these units will 1.) be beneficial to people who preorder and 2.) make the difficulty of mining sky rocket for those who do not own ASIC's. I am curious on what everyone else thoughts are on this.

If your concern is not losing money on your investment in mining equipment, which is a possibility, then it might be more useful to start out with the question, "What's an acceptable time frame to achieve a break even ROI?"

For me it took about 6 months with GPUs. Are you willing to wait 6 months? 9 months? 12 months? 18 months just to break even? If the break even is two years, are you sure you still want to purchase these? The further out into the future you go, the more uncertainty you'll encounter. If you're at more than 6 months break even, you're probably taking on more risk than previous miners took.

Once you determine that, that's where the number crunching comes in. No matter how much you may want to buy an ASIC device right now, if your own estimations and math show you can't meet your predetermined break-even ROI in months, you should listen to the math. Let the math decide for you, not your emotions. If the math says yes, then it's yes.

There's probably enough information on these message boards to make some estimation of what the network might look like through early summer, but that's about it. Just my thoughts... 
vip
Activity: 490
Merit: 271
February 08, 2013, 11:55:25 PM
#28
They said: Go Solar and have the power companies pay you. That's what they said.

Ironically as it turns out, use more electricity to get free electricity plus some cash.  They said go solar, Pfft... LOL
newbie
Activity: 15
Merit: 0
February 08, 2013, 11:35:43 PM
#27
What would be the wait time before a BFL Jalapeno ships? Anyone know?
newbie
Activity: 35
Merit: 0
February 08, 2013, 11:25:26 PM
#26
Avalon only accepts BTC as payment. BFL accepts BTC, bank wire transfer, or PayPal as payment options.
newbie
Activity: 1
Merit: 0
February 08, 2013, 11:11:45 PM
#25
I didn't want to make a new thread just for this question but, does anyone know what kind of methods of payment Avalon accepts for their ASIC's?
Specifically for Batch #3, they are using bitpay.com. Do they only accept bitcoin for payment, or are there any payment alternatives to buy an ASIC from them?

Greatly appreciated if anyone has information on this, for some reason I couldn't find any at all. =[
sr. member
Activity: 285
Merit: 250
Bitcoin.org maintainer
February 08, 2013, 04:00:25 PM
#24
This is the sort of thing I'm worried about. But don't miners make a profit mining with their GPU rigs now? Why wouldn't ASIC rigs make money once all of this levels out? When the difficulty goes up, wont the value of BTC change to reflect that?

GPU are quite dead now. They cost more in electricity than the profits they can generate.. And with ASIC coming, it's really going to be the end for GPU soon.

Difficulty and value does not affect each other. In one line : The difficulty is the competition between miners, while the value is the competition between buyers.

A very high hash rate does not mean more people will want to buy and use Bitcoin.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
February 08, 2013, 03:54:45 PM
#23
One of the nice things about the ASICs is how little power they draw. I think the Jalapeno uses something like 4.5 watts. That means it takes about 9+1/4 days to use a kilowatt-hour, and a kilowatt-hour is pretty cheap. They're definitely going to help with the power costs.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
February 08, 2013, 10:03:42 AM
#22
If you consider the sheer number of ASICs reportedly in queue the difficulty rise will be large enough to diminish returns to the point of never achieving return on investment.  Say you currently mine 25GH which is about 1/1000th of the total.  That probably costs about 20K in GPUs and boards.

Now to have 1/1000th of the hash after ASIC stabilizes you would probably need to spend well over $20k.

Unless you got in very early on the ASIC batches you're probably screwed as people will keep tossing money at it in hopes of getting rich.

I think the only ones who will see guaranteed profits from ASIC are the manufacturers (like a gun dealer arming both sides).

This is the sort of thing I'm worried about. But don't miners make a profit mining with their GPU rigs now? Why wouldn't ASIC rigs make money once all of this levels out? When the difficulty goes up, wont the value of BTC change to reflect that?
full member
Activity: 199
Merit: 100
February 08, 2013, 10:02:36 AM
#21
I believe the last estimate was ~18000 BFL ASIC's ordered.  To put it into perspective, that's 0.00026% of the population.
hero member
Activity: 873
Merit: 1007
February 08, 2013, 08:50:19 AM
#20
If you consider the sheer number of ASICs reportedly in queue the difficulty rise will be large enough to diminish returns to the point of never achieving return on investment.  Say you currently mine 25GH which is about 1/1000th of the total.  That probably costs about 20K in GPUs and boards.

Now to have 1/1000th of the hash after ASIC stabilizes you would probably need to spend well over $20k.

Unless you got in very early on the ASIC batches you're probably screwed as people will keep tossing money at it in hopes of getting rich.

I think the only ones who will see guaranteed profits from ASIC are the manufacturers (like a gun dealer arming both sides).
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 587
Space Lord
February 08, 2013, 08:00:05 AM
#19
ASICs are a joke, none of the companies will deliver.

Avalon delivered 300x60GHash.
b!z
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1010
February 08, 2013, 02:57:11 AM
#18
ASICs are a joke, none of the companies will deliver.
sr. member
Activity: 285
Merit: 250
Bitcoin.org maintainer
February 07, 2013, 07:30:29 PM
#17
One thing to consider with ASIC is that you cannot resell them for any other purpose. All the opposite of graphic cards.

However, if there is a better time to buy ASIC, it is clearly now. Because ASIC are about 50x more productive. This gap is not likely to reproduce in the future.

I never found any estimation of how many BFL ASICS are about to be shipped. It's then pretty hard to calculate the impact on the final hash rate (and to evaluate the real potential incomes). Also not to forget that Bitcoin value changes it all. If it rise of drop, your incomes will follow.

My bet is that it will clearly be worth. However, I could be wrong.
full member
Activity: 199
Merit: 100
February 07, 2013, 11:33:26 AM
#16
I'm waiting until I the shipping time lowers.  I don't expect to get rich from a Jalapeno, but I do expect to be able to generate some bitcoins, help secure the network, and contribute to larger scale adoption of BTCs.

There are quite a few threads in this forum about the profitability.  One variable that I didn't see mentioned much was the exchange rate.  Many of the calculations were done a month ago, when the BTC -> USD was in the area of ~$13-$14.  It's currently ~$21.

The new network power is only going to increase the difficulty, and not the creation rate.  Therefore, if the increasing adoption (demand) of BTC continues, the value will continue to increase, which affects profitability.

Otherwise, it's just cool, and the cost is about equivalent to ~3 dinners out.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 07, 2013, 10:01:07 AM
#15
I bought a Jalapeno not out of any delusions of striking it Bitcoin "rich" but because someday it will be a "classic".  Like the commodore 64 of Bitcoin miners.   In the future when the first datacenter installed petahash scale rack mount mining clusters is available from Dell*, my Gen1 Jalapeno will look quaint sitting on my desk.


* Just kidding (kinda) but that probably is the end game.  A full datacenter rack of 3U or 4U mining chassis connected to a redundant pair of management servers. 
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 587
Space Lord
February 07, 2013, 09:41:34 AM
#14
I'm thinking of ordering a Jalapeno myself... Who knows Cheesy

The thing is... GPU mining could still be profitable, it just depends on what hashrate are you getting. The people that have <4 GHash, will probably have to stop mining, but the stronger miners could still have some profit.
sr. member
Activity: 403
Merit: 251
February 07, 2013, 09:26:01 AM
#13
I don't think so.  If you weren't one of the people who placed a preorder, but the time you place your order for an ASIC and receive yours, the ASIC bubble will have burst. 
Next window of opportunity will be when they are available to ship within 24h.
Or perhaps not, depends on their price vs how many new ones are produced per month
to drive difficulty up.
newbie
Activity: 57
Merit: 0
February 06, 2013, 12:42:36 AM
#12
I don't think so.  If you weren't one of the people who placed a preorder, but the time you place your order for an ASIC and receive yours, the ASIC bubble will have burst. 
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
February 05, 2013, 06:30:46 PM
#11
Now I might buy one just so I can tell my kids about it...  now I just need to work on getting that girl friend...  Roll Eyes
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