Topic: Are Bitcoin's virtual property? - page 4. (Read 9849 times)

edit-- i just re-read your post.  You are referring to the wallet (PKI) not the actual  bitcoin.  they are 2 different things

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if you're speaking of double spend. then the duality is  only for a very short time and not persistent . the confirmation process would determine there to be 1 owner and drop any redundant transactions.  a persistent duality would determine non-rivalrous not a timing glitch.  limitation

But two or more people can have access to the same cryptographic elements that make up a bitcoin account/address. It loses rivalrousnessess then.

"To recap: these traits – rivalrousness, persistence, and interconnectivity – mimic real world properties. If I hold a pen, I have it and you don’t. Rivalrousness. ... Rivalrousness gives me the ability to invest in my property without fear that other people may take what I have built."

edit
being that it is non-rivalrous would exclude that image  from being virtual property.

This brings us back to information. Property in a broad sense represents a claim over information (physical or virtual). Bitcoins and namecoins are more on the implementation side for how to claim it, while stocks, URLs and namecoin database entries are more on the content side. As such, bitcoin is both virtual property and a virtual property management system.

This indicates that there are floating boundaries with what we perceive as property and what not. E.g. If I paint you a picture and you look at it, do I own the photons which hit your eyes and create the image on your retina? Most would say no - it's the physical or virtual representation of the picture which could be considered property. But this digresses into matters of semantics...

To answer OPs question according to the this article "VIRTUAL PROPERTY" 2005 , Joshua Farfield, Bitcoins are in fact virtual property.


" The development of virtual property as a concept also makes possible useful secured transactions.42 Possession, under the Uniform Commercial Code, is a cheap way of establishing a relationship with an interest that is quickly and commonly traded.43 The law therefore has set forth technological requirements that describe an infrastructure under which electronic chattel paper may be meaningfully “possessed” for perfection purposes.44 The relevant attributes of this electronic chattel paper are that it must be capable of being possessed by one person only, it must persist (since the value it represents must be maintained), and it must be able to be freely traded to other people who themselves can cheaply establish rights of possession.45 Electronic chattel paper therefore is rivalrous, persistent, and interconnected – and thus virtual property"

An opinion is neither true nor false, and money/property is ultimately a shared opinion.

I'm not trying to split hairs, but the air around you has physical properties.  I think comparing Bitcoins to stocks  is a more appropriate  because while stocks are represented by certificates that is not actually the stock.  The stock it is in fact the "right of ownership" and not the certificate.  The certificate is only a medium to transfer that right.   It is generally accepted that this "right of ownership" is property.  Why would it be different with Bitcoins?

Some have trouble associating Bitcoins to property because they have no physical properties. They should consider what gives Bitcoins it's value.  The products and services that can be bought, sold, or leased is what ultimately determine it's value. We may use the market as a reference, but it does not determine the value.  given this we can say that Bitcoins are representations of physical property.  Very similar to stocks, bonds, commodities, and even fiat currency.

So Bitcoins are information on the P2P network, when I get given Bitcoin's I never actually take position or ownership, I just get given a right to decide how to direct that information.  The idea as BTC as property is merely a convenient concept for relating my understanding to the meme of ownership.

In my opinion all words are subjective, and their understood meaning is basically a generally accepted shared subjective definition. So it depends on how you define property..

I define a property as: a scarce tangible entity, corporeal or incorporeal, of which the access to and control of has been restricted and limited

The important part of my definition is scarcity. I do not regard entities that aren't scarce as property for example such as information that can be easily and cheaply perfectly copied without causing a loss what so ever to the original medium it was carried by.



So given my definition in Bitcoin only a Bitcoin transactions(more precisely the unspent outputs as was alluded to above) fits it. It is a tangible incorporeal and scarce entity that I restricted and limited the use of by keeping my private keys secret. When someone steals my bitcoins what they really stole is the irreversible and non double spendable and therefor scarce transaction that can be made with the private key and that I have restricted and limited the use of.

So they may copy my private key which is just information which isn't really a property and that alone does nothing to me, I mean I don't experience a loss what so ever. But if they then use this private key to steal my scarce transaction then that's when the loss to me actually happens and they stole my property.

I mean if you really think about it the same happens with say a gold coin that you own. Someone may learn where you keep it and how to turn of your security measures in order to gain access but they haven't inflicted a loss on you with the access to this information alone, it's when they use this information to take possession of the scarce entity that you experience the loss i.e. theft.

I'm catching up so if this post is repeat forgive me this just jumped out out at me. 

To say information is free would be a fallacy.  Information is in fact a commodity.  There is a considerable investment made by anyone wishing to learn whether it be time, sacrifice or monetary.  Information is very expensive, and highly valued by those who know how to use it.