Topic: Are Institutional investors changing the Bitcoin price behaviour? - page 2. (Read 361 times)

The fact that two things are essentially different in nature does not prevent them from being related. In this case there is an inverse correlation: the more money printed, the higher the price of Bitcoin (in fiat terms), and now that the FED has announced that it is going to reduce the drug dosage for the junkie, the price has suffered. Bitcoin and fiat (and central bank policy) are by no means completely independent, they are related. You yourself seem to recognize this at the end of the paragraph.

I disagree with you totally. That government is printing lots of fiat doesn’t mean that Bitcoin would lose value, how does bitcoin have anything to do with fiat? They are both different and independent on their own. Bitcoin was created to be a deflationary currency, while fiat is inflationary. So, these two are totally different. As more fiat is being printed, fiat would be the one that is losing value in this case due to inflation, while Bitcoin continues to gain more value as fiat continues to lose. That is just it.

What happens is that holders despite being part of the market by having large amounts of bitcoin are not participant on the process of rapidly buying and selling bitcoin which is where the process of price discovery happens, this means that with an even smaller amount of coins in exchanges traders can move the price of bitcoin even more easily as the supply is limited, meaning that as time passes the movements of bitcoin are now more correlated to what we see in the stock market instead of moving opposite to it, increasing the volatility of bitcoin slightly in the process.

I believe that when one person holds too much money, that is a risky thing, it should not be available to hold that much for just a single person (or company. In this case the institutional investors may or may not have too much of bitcoin, but they certainly do have it for some other.

Like just to give an example, we all know Binance holds a lot of BNB right? It's their own coin, and goes back to them and quite centralized, they haven't just sold all they had on the market because that would be shooting themselves on the foot, idiotic move, and they probably won't do it but the fact that they "could" changes things. Tesla had 1.5 billion dollars worth of bitcoin, they were able to share this as a news and it increased the price of bitcoin, they then said they sold it, and the price dropped as well. So, even if the amount is not big enough to change the market, the news of it certainly big enough.

The answer is absolutely yes. Firstly, it has become more stable (that is, for me, bad) but the worse thing is exactly what you hint in your post, the linking between the rest of the assets and the price of bitcoin. To be honest, there is no asset that can be free from the massive influence of the money printing by the central banks, is like using a gun against a tank and, lately, the FED and the CEB have been sending a full armoured division.

That's the reason why I always say that too much institutional money is not good for a decentralized market like crypto. Many companies are sitting on extra cash that they would like to invest in bitcoin. But that makes bitcoin too centralized and gives them a competitive edge over the market. Because they know, they can use their influence and holding to manipulate the market.

A prime example of such behavior is Elon's support to Dogecoin. We have seen how a coin has come back from deathbed with another life and people are going crazy over it.

Crypto is all about decentralization. But unfortunately it's unregulated nature is allowing it to be manipulated by the deep procket profit mongers.

I don't think so that's the reason for the current price dips as the whole market is in red and you can't say that's manipulation.In actual there were huge investments during the last year and people invested their surplus funds or say funds they need in crypto market and btc for profits but now they are withdrawing them but the conditions again hyped by panic sellers.The alt holders have also the same faith but institutions have nothing to do with it.There are equal investment by retail investors also in bitcoin if you look at the charts but yes big players have started to invest more from two to three years in bitcoin and they can invest big amounts easily compared to retail.Here is proof for the same :


Although the involvement of institutions have grown in Bitcoin market cap but still the major portion lies with the retail and they can't manipulate the market easily so for me there are other reasons for this and it will be over soon and prices will be going up.

The big institutions investors are only one or two who are playing big on bitcoin and we are familiar with them as always and these whom @OP is referring to have btc in their treasury reserves but can't think of some price manipulation by them.Here are some of the institutional investors i am aware about holds btc on their balance sheet :


Out of them only MicroStrategy is the one who is going on for investment at dips on regular basis and those who follow Saylor and btc news know this fact and they holds around 122k btc which is huge amount but if you check out in detail you would find out that they have bought them at average prices which are slightly more than the current rate.Other institutions have not invested for quite a time like Tesla or Sqaure and one time holding.

Saylor is true btc enthusiast and personally also holds more than 17k btc worth more than $600 million at this time also so see his company profits as well.The rest big institutional players he have in mind i don't know about it.


The current price dump like situations may be weird for many and they might be having numerous reasons for this as this time China can't also be balmed for anything as no new FUD from them.The btc manipulation is not at all easy as you need billion dollar investment and liquidation position to move the prices and institutions investing in it should do the reverse which is price boost but that's not happening at all.They will slowly move upwards as little sign of improvement will mark the new surge in them.

They've actually helped the market to grow and it's no doubt that they've played an important part during the start of the pandemic. About them owning more bitcoins, I don't fear that. There's nothing we can do as we're already in here and saw these institutions play and even a few years ago when it's just the community and a few large corporations that were interested in bitcoin, there's already the call and accusation of manipulation. So, it's not that really new if they do the same with those companies that we've said that have also been manipulating the market.

Bitcoin will always get new investors since we know many will grab its potential and this became so famous right now since it  change the dynamics a bit on financial system and almost all knows about it already. And although we need them but for sure time will came that bitcoin will go independently without anyone could possibly manipulate it since for sure in future it can stand on its own especially when many whales or big corporations are using bitcoin.

Before major institutional investors were into Bitcoin, it was speculated that once they come, the price will finally become more stable and less prone to huge decreases. But I think that it's safe to say now that these predictions didn't become our reality. We saw how easily money can be invested and pulled out of Bitcoin with Tesla, and we saw how Bitcoin lost 50% of its value during the current bear market. But as for manipulations, I don't think it's getting worse with institutional investors. It's just not getting better. And I generally agree with mk4 regarding the whole thing of Bitcoin price being manipulated by whales or whatever it is now.

We cannot say with certainty due to lack of proof, that the dump or trigger happy selling is due to them. The price did stabilize after touching this week's low.

Irrational price movements have been there since the market started trading. We attempt to pin down a specific movement or trend towards a specific reason but we always lack proof here, because it gives the trader a sense of being in control. In reality we are not the ones in control of the market but only in control of our own money and how we invest it.

The safety that bitcoin gives over fiat market remains unchanged, even if institutional investors flock in. The decentralization of money remains same and the only thing that can change is the possibility of sudden movements after a long period of stagnation. But all this is about the speculation of price.

Being a safe haven or not, I never considered any investment to be a safe haven. They all have their own risks. As long as I am in profit, I am happy.

I am not just talking about market manipulation by institutional investors now, but rather their erratic trading behavior. We are used to Bitcoin Whales with nerves of Steel and some of them are now being replaced by Institutional investors with trigger happy sell fingers.

So, what we will see now... will be a close correlation with what is happening on the global Stock markets and not a "commodity" that goes against the mainstream movement of the global markets.  

We have always said.... Bitcoin price volatility will decline, if we can distribute bitcoins to more people and if we can avoid an increase in whales... but Institutional investors are now becoming the new Bitcoin whales.

OP, after reading your post I'm just left scratching my head and wondering....who are "they"?  You've ascribed some very specific characteristics to "them" (like trigger happiness), but for the life of me I can't think of what big institutional investors are essentially gambling on bitcoin as you seemingly suggest.

It's true that some hedge funds and mutual fund managers will sell a stock or whatever asset we're talking about at the first sign of weakness, but my impression is that if any hedgies or other institutional investors with deep pockets are trading in bitcoin, they're not actually doing it with bitcoin itself but with derivatives--and as far as I know, the bitcoin price that's shown on preev and other sites isn't determined by what's happening on Bakkt or the CME.  I could be wrong.

I have to laugh at everyone who's using the word "manipulation" or variations thereof.  It's funny how that word vanishes from everyone's vocabulary when bitcoin is rocketing upward, and if anyone thinks there's manipulation going on in a bull market they're certainly not complaining about  it.

This is what is feared, but many hope that bitcoin always finds new investors. to me this is like a dilemma, on the one hand we need institutional investors to make the market grow rapidly. on the other hand they have the possibility to manipulate the market.

I think still, because even though this is manipulated by institutions but still their goal is profit and the important thing for small holder is not to follow the flow they create stay focused on the targets that have been made and not panic to see a red market, because it could be a target of large institutions to collect more from panic sell that is often experienced by small holders.

I don’t think it’s the institutions which are causing all these moves. Basically Bitcoin trades at something like 0.9 correlation with stock markets so many crypto traders are just watching the SP500 charts and following every move. And that’s why the correlation is there.

I haven’t seen it be this closely correlated for a long time however I just think many traders are taken advantage of that to make money. We saw what happened today with FOMC and crypto traders basically started the sell off when the stock market indices were crashing during Jpows speech.

Big money manipulating markets has always been 99% a tinfoil-hat theory. As more money enters the space, raising the marketcap, it will be harder and harder to influence the market.

Not to mention that when talking about trigger happiness, it's mostly retail rather than institutional. Any competent institutional investor don't invest in something just to panic sell after a drop or something.

The price movements of Bitcoin have always been like this ever since. Although the bigger picture has it appreciating, its short movements have always been highly unpredictable. No wonder why Bitcoin trading is oftentimes frustrating; it's because an accurate prediction has always been elusive. Charting doesn't guarantee anything either. So the entry of institutional money in Bitcoin won't really change much its price behavior. It has always been volatile, although with Bitcoin's market cap already reaching hundreds of billions, this volatility now translates to the price quickly jumping up and down by the thousands of USD.

The reality is we don't have this kind of reliable information. Most are just rumors and some may just want to spread fud in the market. As we don't know the authenticity of the source, it is better to take care of your assets and don't easily believe what you are reading. If you're here in this market, you basically know what to do with your assets. Otherwise, you will lose funds for nothing.

I think the holiday season and christmas are peaks for crypto volume. There is a lull in transaction volume for january through around march. Which is the time when bitcoin is most vulnerable to short selling. The first three months of the year is when short sellers who believe bitcoin is overvalued are most likely to make their plays.

Looking at charts of bitcoin price. I think january through march are the most likely months for a crash or a flatline trading. Mid to end year period is most likely for price gains.

Beginning of a new year is usually bearish or trending downward. People say the current january decline is an "anomaly" but looking at a chart of bitcoin prices, some of the biggest all time crashes occurred january through march.