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Topic: Are Profits More Important Than Decentralization? (Read 2476 times)

sr. member
Activity: 328
Merit: 250
Decentralization is more important, if it is true decentralization, and there should be a balance between decentralization and profits Satoshi Nakamoto has taught us through his own example.

Have your heard the story of Nimbus dev from Brazil?
After being robbed he had no money to pay for electricity and Internet and had closed his project.
I bet you know nothing about Nimbus. I know almost nothing either and don't hold Nimbus and never had it. I only can imagine how a person, who lives in Brazilian slums, dreams of light and chooses the name Nimbus.
But what if Nimbus could provide something really great in future? We don't know but we are ready to judge.
Nxtblg is correct, be it the First World, the Second, or the Third, people don't differ too much.

The point is that people must have equal chances. "No envy" and "buying rice" are stereotypes.
Talented people often want to change the world for the better. How about equal chances for them?
How many inventions have not been made, how many talented books have not been written only due to centralization of capital.
It's shameful that there are still deaths due to cancer in 21 century. But the truth is that even if somebody could invent a true method to treat cancer, he would not be able to implement it. He would need some money - to live, to research, to test (several years usually), to promote, but people would say to him: 'So you want money? Profits are more important for you? It is shameful, and you don't deserve money, and you are not true scientist, thus your invention is garbage, and we don't want to waste our time to find out more about it'.
That is how this way of thinking works.

That is why true decentralization of economy is not decentralization of mining ONLY (mining and transparency of owners of big mining power do matter, of course).
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Canada still has food and resources to strip which is why they did not go into recession.  

Actually, Canadian bankers have a tradition of prudence. When times are better, this tradition shows indirectly through all those complaints about "stingy banks" from a lot of Canadians. Smiley

In the worst of the Great Depression, when American banks were falling like ninepins, no Canadian bank went under. Even though there was no such thing as a central bank in Canada until 1935, not a single Canadian bank failed in the 1930s.

At the time, this glaring lack of failure was chalked up to size: Canadian banks were big, spread all through Canada, diversified through the Canadians economy, etc.

Nowadays, of course, that same tradition of relative prudence is ascribed to "better regulation" - even through Canada's answer to the Glass-Steagall Act went void as of 1988.

So...us Canucks escaping "The Big One" provides a kind of Rorschach test of the times. Either that, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster has commanded us to give thanks and praise to Regulation...I think it's in the Gospel According to Max Weber. Wink
legendary
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
and it's quite trendy around here to objectify money, and even easier to judge people if you have it.

Well...in the outside First World, it's quite trendy to objectify money and surprisingly easy to judge people through using it - i.e., using it as a standard of judgement. When you think about it, it's historically shocking to see how much of our charitable impulses are channelled through using the Almighty Dollar as a measuring stick.

If you have a taste for satire....

"All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and its Gift to the World: the mighty Socio-Economic Scale! Through it, with it, in it: such is our charity."

"As a man with a cash-register heart, who see things only in dollars and cents, I can say that my heart absolutely bleeds when I see folks with neither dollars nor cents. How can anyone say that the poor are not victims?"

and so on...
sr. member
Activity: 328
Merit: 250
Greedy people care more for profit than decentralization, and you can recognize them instantly because they complain or criticize your possession, be it dollars, BTC, gold, food, cars, cribs, etc.  
I'd add altcoins. I think no posessions here are being criticized more than altcoins.

I've posted recently "True Decentralization is in Diversity" where have described the way of true decentralization and have got no answers, no arguments. Thus I yet don't know whether people fully agree (Qui tacet consentit) or just ignore these ideas.

Unfortunately there is often a lack of real arguments here on Bitcointalk.
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
Are Profits More Important Than Decentralization?

Yes we need maney buy rice for famili.
hero member
Activity: 1540
Merit: 500
One of the central tenets of cryptocurrency is the principle of decentralization. It seems, however, that more and more people are willing to trade the principle of decentralization for profits. Is it just me, or is the crypto culture shifting? Or are principles like decentralization that important to begin with?

Yes, I think lot of new investors come get attracted to crypto because of profit and there are some people who truly interested in value but until we remove these investors who are in it for profit I think it'll be very hard to focus on value.

We must've lost around 100,000 people because of scams and p&d schemes yet one would wonder why they still exist...people don't learn and greed is a bitch.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024

I'm not sure if you ever can have a truly decentralized Cryptocurrency because you need to be able to trust whoever managing the codebase

unless you, as stakeholders could vote on weather or not to change the codebase, and how.  Imagine the bitcoin blocksize debate happening over the course of a month or so as bitcoin holders voted either for or against the change the next time they logged into their wallets.  Simple.  Painless.


I'm not sure it would be any more painless when it comes to Bitcoin, I imagine you would still have people complaining about the voting and how it is unfair.

Sorry, I meant on blockchain voting (as a function within your wallet)(1 satoshi = 1 vote)

Anyone who owns bitcoin knows that you cannot argue with the blockchain (or honey badgers).  

Yes and that is what I was referring to because then people would complain because large Bitcoin holders can outvote them. I think this is a good idea though and could be refined a bit, I think this is the first time I've heard someone suggest a solution instead of a problem regarding the Block size debate.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
One of the central tenets of cryptocurrency is the principle of decentralization. It seems, however, that more and more people are willing to trade the principle of decentralization for profits. Is it just me, or is the crypto culture shifting? Or are principles like decentralization that important to begin with?

for me i want decentralization in the coin that i am passionate about and planning to use. which is bitcoin. but at the same time, profit has a high priority too.

i think when people stop considering cryptocurrencies as an investment and a way to make a quick buck and start considering it as a currency then the decentralization becomes an important part.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024


I'm not sure if you ever can have a truly decentralized Cryptocurrency because you need to be able to trust whoever managing the codebase

unless you, as stakeholders could vote on weather or not to change the codebase, and how.  Imagine the bitcoin blocksize debate happening over the course of a month or so as bitcoin holders voted either for or against the change the next time they logged into their wallets.  Simple.  Painless.


I'm not sure it would be any more painless when it comes to Bitcoin, I imagine you would still have people complaining about the voting and how it is unfair.
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
If you want an altcoin with a real developer who's trying to solve all the problems of bitcoin with decentralized solutions, look into Vanillacoin

-Can be compiled on any platform, including Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS, game consoles, etc.  No other cryptocurrency can do this.
-Full, staking mobile wallets with transferable wallet.dat
-Only other coin besides BTC to require only 1 confirmation on Poloniex.
-Unlike Bitcoin, Vanillacoin's global transaction pool is highly synchronized, which makes malicious block reorganizations nearly impossible.
-Active dev, most talented I've seen in the altcoin space.

Also, look into upcoming features.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1057
One of the central tenets of cryptocurrency is the principle of decentralization. It seems, however, that more and more people are willing to trade the principle of decentralization for profits. Is it just me, or is the crypto culture shifting? Or are principles like decentralization that important to begin with?

Decentralization is nice, decentralization sounds great, but everybody cares more about their own wallets.
If they cashed in, then decentralization can also come, no problem.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1001

If I wanted to change the world via a decentralized currency, I would participate in Bitcoin, not Nxt or any other altcoin. This is the case of the vast majority. If it wasn't Nxt would be the big crypto, which it isn't. Just because altcoins offer revolutionary ideas, they don't have the tools Bitcoin has.

jtb : you're not looking hard enough, certainly not at Nxt.
Bitcoin has almost no native functionality: the only feature it offers is the storage and transfer of secure tokens over its blockchain.
All other tools/features are built by 3rd parties on top of BTC, often using very breakable code.
Take a look at what happened to Counterparty as a result of the recent BTC 'stress test'

Nxt, on the other hand, has been designed from the ground up to offer a wide range of functions integrated into the core, running on Nxts own native blockchain.
The philosophy behind Nxt is pretty much the same as Satoshis original vision for BTC, and does not exclude the use of Bitcoin.
My vision for the future of crypto still has BTC as 'the gold standard', with NXT providing a range of 2nd generation functions, that BTC ítself simply can't.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
One of the most important reasons we are here because we want to make some profit.
So profits are more important than decentralization
                                                                               
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Most important are promises. If dev makes good promises for coming geek hype tech it's easy to attract investors and dump on them.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1042
White Male Libertarian Bro
One of the central tenets of cryptocurrency is the principle of decentralization. It seems, however, that more and more people are willing to trade the principle of decentralization for profits. Is it just me, or is the crypto culture shifting? Or are principles like decentralization that important to begin with?

The only reason to invest in, mine, and trade various altcoins is to turn a profit. If anyone cares about the core principles of cryptocurrency, then they stick to Bitcoin.

That statement couldn't be any more incorrect.

Quote
"One of the reasons Nxt is groundbreaking is because it gives the economy back to the people and re-establishes them as their own sovereigns over their destiny.  An economy is an expression of a political ideology.  Do not mistake us as just another cryptocurrency.  We are a movement."

If I wanted to change the world via a decentralized currency, I would participate in Bitcoin, not Nxt or any other altcoin. This is the case of the vast majority. If it wasn't Nxt would be the big crypto, which it isn't. Just because altcoins offer revolutionary ideas, they don't have the tools Bitcoin has.

What makes you think Bitcoin is still decentralized?
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1034
One of the central tenets of cryptocurrency is the principle of decentralization. It seems, however, that more and more people are willing to trade the principle of decentralization for profits. Is it just me, or is the crypto culture shifting? Or are principles like decentralization that important to begin with?

The only reason to invest in, mine, and trade various altcoins is to turn a profit. If anyone cares about the core principles of cryptocurrency, then they stick to Bitcoin.

That statement couldn't be any more incorrect.

Quote
"One of the reasons Nxt is groundbreaking is because it gives the economy back to the people and re-establishes them as their own sovereigns over their destiny.  An economy is an expression of a political ideology.  Do not mistake us as just another cryptocurrency.  We are a movement."

If I wanted to change the world via a decentralized currency, I would participate in Bitcoin, not Nxt or any other altcoin. This is the case of the vast majority. If it wasn't Nxt would be the big crypto, which it isn't. Just because altcoins offer revolutionary ideas, they don't have the tools Bitcoin has.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1042
White Male Libertarian Bro
Quote
Centralization is what allowed the bankers to rob the people via taxpayer bailouts.

Actually, no. Canada has bank regulation. Weathered the Recession fine. America LACKED regulation; Recession was triggered due to a LACK of regulation.

Good luck preventing "recessions".  That's called the business cycle.  The bailouts were possible because of centralization.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024
I'm not sure if you ever can have a truly decentralized Cryptocurrency because you need to be able to trust whoever managing the codebase and people naturally want someone to make the decisions for them and provide updates so in any system you will have some kind of centralized authority that would have the final say but that doesn't mean that people do not have a say or have no opinion because you can still have cohesion of ideas. I think you can have a profitable system that is largely decentralized because people want to trade, Stake and sell Coins for profit and you want to have people to continually sell and distribute the Coins because that creates greater decentralization. The problem is not inflation because people will continue to buy Coins as long as the code is advancing, the problem is when inflation grows at a faster rate than investment can ever come in (compounding interest with no cap and interest more than 1000%).

I am quite interested in the subject of decentralization and profitability because it is the main reason why everyone is here.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Quote
Centralization is what allowed the bankers to rob the people via taxpayer bailouts.

Actually, no. Canada has bank regulation. Weathered the Recession fine. America LACKED regulation; Recession was triggered due to a LACK of regulation.



legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1042
White Male Libertarian Bro
Those who would give up essential Decentralization, to purchase a little temporary Profit, deserve neither Decentralization nor Profit.

But full decentralization essentially encourages P&D and the same bad behavior that allowed the bankers in America to cause the Recession, imo. Because lack of regulation and controls to prevent said bad behavior and greedy speculators.

Centralization is what allowed the bankers to rob the people via taxpayer bailouts.

Decentralization is like insurance.
You pay for it in cases where there are risks you want to mitigate.

In other cases, where those risks are acceptable, you may choose the convenience or savings of using a more centralized solution.

I don't mind using a centralized bank to pay my utility bill or daily credit card expenses.
I'm much less comfortable trusting them with my retirement account or private business transactions.

Thus, not all financial products and services have the same need for decentralization purity.

And maximum decentralization is seldom the sweet spot in the design trade space.

People should be free to choose how much decentralization they want to trade off against other desirable features like convenience or cost.
Entrepreneurs should be free to earn a living offering services with a mix that meets the needs of their intended customers.

If I'm designing a new car, I only use enough steel in it to keep the passengers reasonably safe.
Adding more steel after that hurts performance and affordability more than it increases safety.

Decentralization is like steel.  

Entrepreneurs need to ask how much is enough to offer an affordable product that will sell well at a reasonable profit.

Smiley

Nice rationalization of your motives for copying NXT's decentralized PoS and centralizing it creating Bitshares' DPoS.

Right here folks is how they take away your rights and freedoms.  Take away a little here, give away a little there, and pretty soon you're left with nothing but shackles.
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