Are Technical Indicators useless? - page 2.

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Quote from: goinmerry on September 23, 2023, 06:28:16 PM

Quote from: algoBoi on September 12, 2023, 11:43:39 AM

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators. Undecided

When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

Because, unlike other assets, crypto is heavily volatile.

When dealing in crypto market, we can apply mostly the general statement here that past performance can't guarantee future results. Professional traders are even struggling to make up a good strategy in their respective trading activity and they really did actually end up in several and lots of different combinations of their indicators just to know what would be the best thing to apply.

Crypto has been unpredictable since then. Indicators are a big help. Just don't stop and soon you will hit the right strategy.

thats the thing with cryptocurrency indicators sometime means nothing when the market quite literally go astray and didn't follow direction of usual technical analysis making it not consistent and hard to predict but one thing for sure about crypto is that if definitely follow trends, therefore by following trend we could somewhat get the formula of gaining profits by taking advantage of it.
but it doesn't really mean that technical analysis is entirely useless. there are many scenario where technical analysis is needed to know the well being of the market, determining whether the market itself is in a good trend or not.
therefore its always combination of both that could helps in trading career, and not depending on speculation.

goinmerry

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Quote from: algoBoi on September 12, 2023, 11:43:39 AM

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators. Undecided

When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

Because, unlike other assets, crypto is heavily volatile.

When dealing in crypto market, we can apply mostly the general statement here that past performance can't guarantee future results. Professional traders are even struggling to make up a good strategy in their respective trading activity and they really did actually end up in several and lots of different combinations of their indicators just to know what would be the best thing to apply.

Crypto has been unpredictable since then. Indicators are a big help. Just don't stop and soon you will hit the right strategy.

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Quote from: lalabotax on September 23, 2023, 04:59:23 PM

Quote from: algoBoi on September 12, 2023, 11:43:39 AM

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators. Undecided

When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

In my opinion no. If we are really able to analyze the indicators well, then this will have a good effect too. However, TA does not guarantee that our trading will always be 100% successful. Because in the crypto market world, nothing is 100% certain.
However, having the ability to analyze indicators better will be much better than not having the ability to analyze and only using feeling when opening positions and taking profits. At least TA will help us decide several things when trading. If it is not currently producing results, maybe there is still something wrong in the settings or in the analysis. Not only that, fundamental analysis is also needed in this case to carry out the best strategy for trading.

Wrong perception of others that TA can give them a guarantee profit that's why they easily believe on people says that they are good on it then follow their released TA or worst buy a subscription with them. But they realize that it didn't work on their end that's why they get frustrated about the result. Maybe they should learn for theirselves to know about doing TA so that they can analyze each situation on their own and get high chances to gain from the trades they make.

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Quote from: algoBoi on September 12, 2023, 11:43:39 AM

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators. Undecided

When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

In my opinion no. If we are really able to analyze the indicators well, then this will have a good effect too. However, TA does not guarantee that our trading will always be 100% successful. Because in the crypto market world, nothing is 100% certain.
However, having the ability to analyze indicators better will be much better than not having the ability to analyze and only using feeling when opening positions and taking profits. At least TA will help us decide several things when trading. If it is not currently producing results, maybe there is still something wrong in the settings or in the analysis. Not only that, fundamental analysis is also needed in this case to carry out the best strategy for trading.

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Quote from: jossiel on September 23, 2023, 06:55:28 AM

Quote from: stomachgrowls on September 22, 2023, 02:18:04 PM

Quote from: jossiel on September 22, 2023, 12:51:41 PM

~snip~

There's no such thing about assurance and precision when it comes to technical analysis and same goes when it comes to fundamentals on which it doesnt really assure that it would really be making out some sure effects

within the market and this is why it would really be just that so normal that you would really be that versatile whenever you do see those unpredictable movement here on the market.
Technical indicators arent useless, it is really just that the market is really that unpredictable and also, what would really be your tools on dealing with this market if you arent using TA just because
you do see that its irrelevant? Just like on what others been saying that on the time that you would really be stepping your foot into the market then you would be finding that relevant
on making use of these tools because stepping into the market without these things would really be making things harder.

Yup, I guess that's the key on this market and you've said it about being versatile.

So as flexible as the others, we need to have various strategies whether they're TAs, fundamentals or etc that will help us with our trades then that should what we should be applying to ourselves.

Honestly, it's hard to survive trading and I've done that and got only few percentage of good trades and that's why I've stopped. I'm just trying to get back again and that's what I am applying to myself.

Trading cant really be able to handle or would be able to get it directly on just few tries on which i do really agree that it would really be requiring that sufficient time and experience for you to be able to
have that good grasps into it or something that do talks about awareness on how you would really be handling yourself into such market condition which is really that totally unpredictable. Yes, you would really be needing to be versatile as much as you could and wont really be trying to choose on what kind of strategy or tools you would be using as long it would really be relevant and would really be useful and this is something that you should really be setting out that kind of target. Try and try until you do succeed because things cant really be achieved without hardwork and trying out
to sustain on whatever challenges that you would really be able to encounter along the way.

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Quote from: ChuckBuck on September 23, 2023, 08:04:57 AM

I've seen a lot of traders like you spend hours backtesting, messing around with Pine Script on Tradingview, and other things. It's all just an illusion.

Here's what's really going on. You are correct. When you look at facts from the past, it all seems to make sense. This is known as "hindsight bias". But the market doesn't care about your old data or how well-written your scripts are. The market evolves, it's dynamic. Today's winning strategy could be tomorrow's disaster.

But what do you know? There ARE traders in the world who have done well. Not by chasing after the perfect combination of indicators, but by developing a profound understanding of the market, its movements, and its psychology. Stop focused on indicators and start learning about the market in real, tangible ways. Learn about trends and how the market feels, and build a plan from the bottom up. It's not the tools, but the person who uses them. Roll Eyes

i can agree with what you said, but having knowledge of trading indicators is not all bad. you can understand what have had happened in the market if you know what you're looking at.
but since every project is different, you can't totally use what you learned about indicators. most of the time, these projects don't follow any known market behaviour. because it depends on the plans of the dev team. just look at those pumpndump coins. do you really think your indicators will help you if suddenly the team decides to rugpull? i don't think so.
this is more getting the feel of where the project is heading to, by checking the hints thrown by the team in social media, how they react to their subscribers, how they implement their objectives and so on. in short, you need to know the project itself to get the idea what direction they are traversing to.

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Quote from: jossiel on September 23, 2023, 06:55:28 AM

Quote from: stomachgrowls on September 22, 2023, 02:18:04 PM

Quote from: jossiel on September 22, 2023, 12:51:41 PM

~snip~

There's no such thing about assurance and precision when it comes to technical analysis and same goes when it comes to fundamentals on which it doesnt really assure that it would really be making out some sure effects

within the market and this is why it would really be just that so normal that you would really be that versatile whenever you do see those unpredictable movement here on the market.
Technical indicators arent useless, it is really just that the market is really that unpredictable and also, what would really be your tools on dealing with this market if you arent using TA just because
you do see that its irrelevant? Just like on what others been saying that on the time that you would really be stepping your foot into the market then you would be finding that relevant
on making use of these tools because stepping into the market without these things would really be making things harder.

Yup, I guess that's the key on this market and you've said it about being versatile.

So as flexible as the others, we need to have various strategies whether they're TAs, fundamentals or etc that will help us with our trades then that should what we should be applying to ourselves.

Honestly, it's hard to survive trading and I've done that and got only few percentage of good trades and that's why I've stopped. I'm just trying to get back again and that's what I am applying to myself.

Well yes, even if we have a good strategy and some help from the available indicators but still it will not be completely successful, and it will only be useful to help you a little in achieving the target that has been set. Basically it will come back that the market is very volatile and there is no way that can conquer or predict prices with 100% accuracy there, but well as I said above we can increase the chances of profit in various ways available and assisted by the best strategy according to you.

The system already provides various indicator facilities that we can use to help our trading, you can use technical or fundamental analysis there according to your wishes and habits that you think are more helpful in finding a lot of profit. But there may be some traders, especially beginners who cannot use the tool properly so that in the end it seems to make them confused in finding the right decision. Well it is true that it is basically quite difficult to survive in trading, but it is also not a good alternative if because of that you decide to get out of trading and stop. I think you can trade by choosing the lowest risk and also of course the profit is not too big, but believe me it will be more able to make you comfortable in doing it.

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I've seen a lot of traders like you spend hours backtesting, messing around with Pine Script on Tradingview, and other things. It's all just an illusion.

Here's what's really going on. You are correct. When you look at facts from the past, it all seems to make sense. This is known as "hindsight bias". But the market doesn't care about your old data or how well-written your scripts are. The market evolves, it's dynamic. Today's winning strategy could be tomorrow's disaster.

But what do you know? There ARE traders in the world who have done well. Not by chasing after the perfect combination of indicators, but by developing a profound understanding of the market, its movements, and its psychology. Stop focused on indicators and start learning about the market in real, tangible ways. Learn about trends and how the market feels, and build a plan from the bottom up. It's not the tools, but the person who uses them. Roll Eyes

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Quote from: jossiel on September 23, 2023, 06:55:28 AM

Honestly, it's hard to survive trading and I've done that and got only few percentage of good trades and that's why I've stopped. I'm just trying to get back again and that's what I am applying to myself.

This is true since crypto is a volatile asset and we all know that volatile assets is very unpredictable. There’s a lot of indicators available for trading and most the so called TA analysts snip part of previous chart and apply an indicator that works on that particular scenario just to show off how good they are on trading but in reality they are just finding the right pattern on the given charts.

I hate trading on volatile assets as I learned my lesson on my many years on crypto. Holding is the best type of investment strategy since its less stressful and you can guarantee that you can have profit if you will not sell at loss.

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Quote from: Twentyonepaylots on September 22, 2023, 06:42:59 PM

Well trend and hype is what makes the crypto great right? I mean for over the past years you can't technically predict if the market will move up or down, it's all about the sentiment of the buyers.

I won't count on that too much tho. Trend and hype, these two are so dangerous yet if used carefully you can make a fortune out of it. But it makes trading so risky during that time. As we know trend and hype fades away. And the time is always uncertain and unpredictable. Could end in hours. So saying that this makes crypto great, I can't agree with that statement. Yes, people are making good profits. But always remember, one's profit is another's loss. And in a situation like this, you could end up on either side.

Huge risk = huge profit. So if you are willing to take that risk then you can sure make profits if you are lucky. But why does this sound like gambling to me? To some extent, it is like gambling. For me, I won't take that risk. I look for long-term gains. That's less risky. And you can still make an analysis through technical analysis. But the results won't be 100% accurate. You can say that the success rate was 80-90% back in the day. But now it has come down to 70-80%

The success rates are low but that doesn't mean that you can't predict it anymore.

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Quote from: stomachgrowls on September 22, 2023, 02:18:04 PM

Quote from: jossiel on September 22, 2023, 12:51:41 PM

~snip~

There's no such thing about assurance and precision when it comes to technical analysis and same goes when it comes to fundamentals on which it doesnt really assure that it would really be making out some sure effects

within the market and this is why it would really be just that so normal that you would really be that versatile whenever you do see those unpredictable movement here on the market.
Technical indicators arent useless, it is really just that the market is really that unpredictable and also, what would really be your tools on dealing with this market if you arent using TA just because
you do see that its irrelevant? Just like on what others been saying that on the time that you would really be stepping your foot into the market then you would be finding that relevant
on making use of these tools because stepping into the market without these things would really be making things harder.

Yup, I guess that's the key on this market and you've said it about being versatile.

So as flexible as the others, we need to have various strategies whether they're TAs, fundamentals or etc that will help us with our trades then that should what we should be applying to ourselves.

Honestly, it's hard to survive trading and I've done that and got only few percentage of good trades and that's why I've stopped. I'm just trying to get back again and that's what I am applying to myself.

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Quote from: algoBoi on September 12, 2023, 11:43:39 AM

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

I'm open to discuss all ideas.

If that is something useless, professional traders won't use that as part of their making a strategy.

The term already says it, "indicators" - means it will indicate the possible next market move. In that way, we can somehow form a good approach to what will happen next. It's always good to rely on all factors we can use to increase our winning rate.

The crypto market is already volatile and we don't want to just predict everything because of emotion.

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Quote from: tjtonmoy on September 22, 2023, 10:38:09 AM

Now the thing about them not working sometimes. Well, the market doesn't run on calculations or mathematical terms always. Sometimes the market moves on sentiments. It creates trend hype or fear that could lead to irregular movements in the market. A machine or program having no human emotion can not compete or analyze that market condition. So the results could be unexpected. Also, indicators are not a thing that you should rely on so much.

Well trend and hype is what makes the crypto great right? I mean for over the past years you can't technically predict if the market will move up or down, it's all about the sentiment of the buyers. Technical Indicators are tools we could use to help us in trading, but the problem comes in when we interpret the data in front of us. If we know less about the data we have, we'll get overwhelmed with it making our emotions and impulsiveness be involve which is a bad thing. Now I see technical indicators as guide, but I don't really trust it so I make my own researches whenever I'm trading which I found very helpful on my end since technical indicator holds significantly less when whales are moving crushing what you think is going to happen and they reverse it in a minute. You're right, don't rely so much on technical indicators, use it as a guide instead.

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Quote from: Best-mary on September 19, 2023, 11:10:35 PM

Nah. Indicators are just like a programmed mathematical and standard instrument that shows the big men in the crypto space what you're doing. Trust your strategy. Rather than I using indicators, I preferred going with the strategies provided by some exchanges like the sniper range or even going into copy-trading.

copy trading aren't as effective as you said otherwise quite literally everyone would flock into it but the result is definitely far from expectation.
technical analysis in general are good way to understand the market that you're in and knowing the circumstance of whats really going on here.
basically you don't just directly use technical analysis as the deciding factor here but rather you are going to use it to help you make decision.
because the whales also know how to use TA to understand the individual movement next so the whales could take advantage of it.

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Quote from: stomachgrowls on September 22, 2023, 02:18:04 PM

There's no such thing about assurance and precision when it comes to technical analysis and same goes when it comes to fundamentals on which it doesnt really assure that it would really be making out some sure effects

within the market and this is why it would really be just that so normal that you would really be that versatile whenever you do see those unpredictable movement here on the market.
Technical indicators arent useless, it is really just that the market is really that unpredictable and also, what would really be your tools on dealing with this market if you arent using TA just because
you do see that its irrelevant? Just like on what others been saying that on the time that you would really be stepping your foot into the market then you would be finding that relevant
on making use of these tools because stepping into the market without these things would really be making things harder.

At least TA has an idea of the movement of market sentiment. Apart from indicators, in my opinion the shape of the candle can also be an indicator of market movements that will occur. There are many kinds of candlesticks, and maybe we have to know and learn about them

or you can go to this link to learn or know about candlesticks: https://forexbee.co/reversal-candlestick-patterns/

Conclusions we can draw. Experience, knowledge and insight in analyzing a market by a trader is very useful for them in trading.

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Quote from: algoBoi on September 12, 2023, 11:43:39 AM

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

I'm open to discuss all ideas.

Success in trading is not because we use a lot of indicators or strategies but in depends on how we use them. In fact, many traders only have a few indicators and they still make it because having a lot of indicators makes you confused about what to do next and end up making wrong decisions. I would say that better to try one or two and see the results, if that is effective already and gives you a profit, it is not necessary to look for more but instead, master it and enhance your TA as this is a big factor that would help you.

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At the wrong hands is the real answer. I mean how can we assume that indicators would be a single minded thing, we are not talking about a situation where all of the world uses it the same way, some people uses the indicators brilliantly and some people use them terribly. Which is the point here, we can't just say that they are bad or good like they are just one single thing, they are a whole system. If you want to use it well, learn how to use it, and I bet that you are going to profit a lot with them, but if you are terrible with them then you are not going to make a lot of money with them. I believe that the situation is a bit of a different one and shouldn't be considered that big of a deal.

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Quote from: Nrcewker on September 22, 2023, 12:31:26 PM

Indicators are used only to see the market with better perspective. These indicators provide better insights of the market for a fixed amount of time. Now using indicators doesn’t mean you will get sure profits, it’s just use for the better analysis of the market.
Now regarding copy trading, then it’s good, but sometimes it backfires. When we get serious losses due to this, we eventually end up in cursing the person whose trade we cope. Nevertheless, I would suggest to always trade by self analysis.

Many traders trade using different indicators and claim to earn good profits. You are right that indicators are used to see the market in a better perspective. As far as I am concerned, some people use a combination of different indicators and make their own assessment from there, or analysis of which direction the market may go, because one indicator alone cannot be trusted. It is not necessary that you can make every trade successful by using indicators.

Sometimes the estimation taken from your indicator can be wrong and you can also lose, because profit and loss is a part of crypto currency here you can earn good profit but loss should also be kept in mind. You are right that trading should be based on your own analysis instead of relying on others, but you will also need some technical indicators to make your analysis and predictions. To improve your profit rate, you will definitely need some tools and indicators for your analysis from which you can take a good guess and make a good trade. That's why I think indicators have a big role to play in crypto currency trading. Therefore, the importance of indicators cannot be ignored.

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Quote from: jossiel on September 22, 2023, 12:51:41 PM

Quote from: lombok on September 22, 2023, 05:57:01 AM

There are times when indicators are very useful and there are times when indicators are not completely appropriate. This depends on market conditions. Sometimes there is a moment where market movements ignore the indicators that we usually use.

That's right.

Sometimes that really happens and we don't have control over it. Indicators could work for most times but do not be surprised if they don't work at all.

Quote from: lombok on September 22, 2023, 05:57:01 AM

Of course, our mentality and emotions must be taken care of when what we usually use and apply in analysis when trading does not apply to market conditions, we must control or stop for a moment to observe market movements. It's better to avoid to maintain balance.

Avoid the market when you're unsure and even if you use indicators and they seem to be inaccurate, it's best to just take a rest but if you want to continue no one will stop you.

There's no such thing about assurance and precision when it comes to technical analysis and same goes when it comes to fundamentals on which it doesnt really assure that it would really be making out some sure effects

within the market and this is why it would really be just that so normal that you would really be that versatile whenever you do see those unpredictable movement here on the market.
Technical indicators arent useless, it is really just that the market is really that unpredictable and also, what would really be your tools on dealing with this market if you arent using TA just because
you do see that its irrelevant? Just like on what others been saying that on the time that you would really be stepping your foot into the market then you would be finding that relevant
on making use of these tools because stepping into the market without these things would really be making things harder.

jossiel

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Quote from: lombok on September 22, 2023, 05:57:01 AM

There are times when indicators are very useful and there are times when indicators are not completely appropriate. This depends on market conditions. Sometimes there is a moment where market movements ignore the indicators that we usually use.

That's right.

Sometimes that really happens and we don't have control over it. Indicators could work for most times but do not be surprised if they don't work at all.

Quote from: lombok on September 22, 2023, 05:57:01 AM

Of course, our mentality and emotions must be taken care of when what we usually use and apply in analysis when trading does not apply to market conditions, we must control or stop for a moment to observe market movements. It's better to avoid to maintain balance.

Avoid the market when you're unsure and even if you use indicators and they seem to be inaccurate, it's best to just take a rest but if you want to continue no one will stop you.

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