are there speed-differences between Pools? - page 2.

jkminkov

hero member

Activity: 698

Merit: 500

Quote from: DrHaribo on November 01, 2011, 07:13:38 AM

Variance is probably the biggest factor, but there are some things to consider.

If your pool is being abused by poolhoppers than your income is probably taking a massive hit. Avoid this - don't give away your money to pool hoppers.

not true, see how itzod ran from hoppers, see bitp, I can add some shut down pools too

all miners are hoppers, they join lucky pools and quit unlucky, no matter proportional or some-twisted-shit method pool ops use.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: Jessi on November 01, 2011, 09:26:07 AM

But why is the calculator on https://deepbit.net/help by 2100 Mhs telling me, that I´ll earn about PPS: 1.58 BTC/24h and the calculator http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php is telling me about Coins per 24h at these conditions: 1.7551 BTC?

Simple. Don't use deepbit unless you like highest fees in the "industry". Lots of other good low and no cost pools to choose from.

bitlane

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

I heart thebaron

Quote from: Jessi on November 01, 2011, 09:26:07 AM

But why is the calculator on https://deepbit.net/help by 2100 Mhs telling me, that I´ll earn about PPS: 1.58 BTC/24h and the calculator http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php is telling me about Coins per 24h at these conditions: 1.7551 BTC?

Deepbit includes their 10% PPS fee into the calculation..... so, 1.58 * 1.10 = approx 1.738 (very close to the other number you listed....lol)

Also, here's a much easier calculator to use (just the basics): http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php

Jessi

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 250

But why is the calculator on https://deepbit.net/help by 2100 Mhs telling me, that I´ll earn about PPS: 1.58 BTC/24h and the calculator http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php is telling me about Coins per 24h at these conditions: 1.7551 BTC?

DrHaribo

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 1034

Needs more jiggawatts

Variance is probably the biggest factor, but there are some things to consider.

If your pool is being abused by poolhoppers than your income is probably taking a massive hit. Avoid this - don't give away your money to pool hoppers.

If your pool is slow in serving out new work through long poll when there is a block change, that's a small loss.

If your pool does merged mining and serves out new work through long poll any time there is a new block on either chain: block changes twice as often = small loss in BTC income. NMC production = sizable plus to your income.

If your pool does merged mining with long poll only on BTC chain: no loss in BTC production, but NMC takes a big hit with massive stales. As long as NMC stays above "worthless" value, this is probably not a good option.

Jack of Diamonds

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Larger pools almost guarantee income if you mine proportional. Smaller pools are a massive gamble, you may not even get paid at all
if the pool is at ~30-50ghash and fails to find a block for a month & everyone bails out of a sinking ship.

Point in case: btcpool24.com, completely died after encountering multiple 95+ percentile rounds at low speeds.
Over 5 million shares went to waste for nothing on the 'death round'. Miners bore the brunt of the losses, not the owner.

abracadabra

hero member

Activity: 956

Merit: 1001

I believe joining a smaller pool would be a wiser choice. Especially with the recent DDOS attacks.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

No.

Your miner has no idea it is even merge mining. It hashes block headers and returns shares and/or solutions. The pool then checks those against both BTC and NMC. As long as the pool has sufficiently powerful server there is no reason the pool can't deliver work fast enough. If the pool was being slowed down by the load you would notice it in delays getting work.

Jessi

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 250

Ok. Therefore I guess I stay on Slushs...

Namecoin mining does not slow down anything?

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: Jessi on October 30, 2011, 07:42:36 AM

Hmm, anyway if there are no differences between pool-speed finally (after 2-4 weeks 24-7 mining for example), why do I not earn about that, what Bitcoin-Calculator says? There are about 30% difference. I am mining with Linuxcoin / Smartcoin and the software is telling me that my speed is about 2000-2100 MHs...
Is it because of mining Namecoin at the same Moment or what could be the reason for this?

What is about pools like DeepBit.net? They pay for invalid shares, too. Does this not result in more Bitcoins / Month?

What is 2-4 weeks? You either have stats for 2 weeks or 4 weeks. Using term like 2-4 weeks makes me think you are using guestimates.

In the long run you will achieve the EV (expected value) of the calculator minus fees minus downtime minus stales. However 2 weeks is rather short period.

On larger scales people have tracked the entire pool payout vs expected value and for Slush and many other pools payouts are within statistical norms. What you experienced was variance or luck. It can be "good" or "bad" but in the long run your payout with be aproach EV.

farfiman

legendary

Activity: 1449

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on October 29, 2011, 12:09:07 PM

Quote from: likuidxd on October 29, 2011, 11:54:08 AM

Join a SMPPS pool ( like ars Wink

) with no fee. No need to be "lucky" you get paid for all valid shares.

SMPPS is a broken method as I discuss in Analysis of Bitcoin pooled mining reward systems (work in progress).

If you really don't want variance use a true PPS pool, though I don't think there are any good ones right now. Also check out Summary of mining pool reward systems if you're shopping for a reward system.

Yes , you have been predicting Ars's demise for quite a while but to those that are there for the last few months its EXACTLY the same as PPS as far as amount of payout ( and 0% fee as well). If a very long spell of bad luck comes their way ( and you predict that eventually it will) and the buffer goes negative ,and a person has no patience- he can leave with maybe a small loss ( much smaller than all the fees that would have been paid elsewhere)

organofcorti

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1007

Poor impulse control.

Quote from: Jessi on October 30, 2011, 07:42:36 AM

Hmm, anyway if there are no differences between pool-speed finally (after 2-4 weeks 24-7 mining for example), why do I not earn about that, what Bitcoin-Calculator says? There are about 30% difference.

It's probably just variance. As other posters mentioned, smaller pools have an increased payout variance - you're putting more eggs (shares) into one basket (round).

A faster pool means shares are spread across more rounds, so 'luck' plays a smaller part. A slower pool means shares are concentrated into fewer rounds. So if you have good luck for a few rounds, you have a great payout. Bad luck means a poor payout. Since the smaller pools have a lower hashrate, a run of long rounds could mean poor payouts for weeks.

Or you could use a mining proxy and spread your shares around as many pools as you can, which (if you ignore variance caused by the payout method) will reduce your payout 'luck' (good or bad) by a much greater degree.

Meni Rosenfeld

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1054

Quote from: Jessi on October 30, 2011, 07:42:36 AM

Hmm, anyway if there are no differences between pool-speed finally (after 2-4 weeks 24-7 mining for example), why do I not earn about that, what Bitcoin-Calculator says? There are about 30% difference. I am mining with Linuxcoin / Smartcoin and the software is telling me that my speed is about 2000-2100 MHs...
Is it because of mining Namecoin at the same Moment or what could be the reason for this?

What is about pools like DeepBit.net? They pay for invalid shares, too. Does this not result in more Bitcoins / Month?

The calculator can show you the average payment in optimal conditions, but there's variance based on the pool's luck and there are occasional problems. slush clearly explained that there was both a DDoS attack and bad pool luck.

There are many other factors that could affect your rewards, such as pool-hopping and various pool features. Paying for invalid shares is nice, but probably doesn't make up for the high fee and hopping.

Jessi

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 250

Hmm, anyway if there are no differences between pool-speed finally (after 2-4 weeks 24-7 mining for example), why do I not earn about that, what Bitcoin-Calculator says? There are about 30% difference. I am mining with Linuxcoin / Smartcoin and the software is telling me that my speed is about 2000-2100 MHs...
Is it because of mining Namecoin at the same Moment or what could be the reason for this?

What is about pools like DeepBit.net? They pay for invalid shares, too. Does this not result in more Bitcoins / Month?

Meni Rosenfeld

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1054

Quote from: racerguy on October 29, 2011, 03:37:14 PM

problem with pps pools is it costs nothing for the blockfinder to withhold his block(besides having to wait longer to get paid). I haven't heard of that happening but it's possible.

I think you're talking about SMPPS which is completely different from PPS. And no, that's not the main problem with either.

racerguy

sr. member

Activity: 270

Merit: 250

problem with pps pools is it costs nothing for the blockfinder to withhold his block(besides having to wait longer to get paid). I haven't heard of that happening but it's possible.

Inaba

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

Eclipse is the best one for a fair reward system that's not PPS.

Meni Rosenfeld

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1054

Quote from: likuidxd on October 29, 2011, 11:54:08 AM

Join a SMPPS pool ( like ars Wink

) with no fee. No need to be "lucky" you get paid for all valid shares.

SMPPS is a broken method as I discuss in Analysis of Bitcoin pooled mining reward systems (work in progress).

If you really don't want variance use a true PPS pool, though I don't think there are any good ones right now. Also check out Summary of mining pool reward systems if you're shopping for a reward system.

likuidxd

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 500

Join a SMPPS pool ( like ars Wink

) with no fee. No need to be "lucky" you get paid for all valid shares.

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Meni, you're right. Usually I'm adding my favourite "long term" clause into sentences, however I forgot to do it now :-).

Topic: are there speed-differences between Pools? - page 2. (Read 3694 times)