Topic: Are we being played? (Read 2919 times)

Fair enough I suppose for merchants that cash out straight away with services like bitpay it doesn't really matter, if you're selling something at a 15% margin and the price is likely to drop on you by 20% before you sell them then of course it does matter!

Are BULLS being played?



Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yeah.

So you think merchants should only accept bitcoin for payment when the price is trending up, but avoid it completely when trending down?

How interesting... quite a businessman you must be there.   

       Just a little clarification and explanation of history as I understand it.

   The word check actually comes from either perSian or arabic, and was a technology that arrived in Europe either via traders in the mediterranean, the crusades, or both. It involved a network of goldsmiths or businessmen promising to honor deposits made at various locations. It may have been and may still be run by initiative secret societies. The Knights Templar is often cited as one of the first such organizations in Europe.

    By investing in checks, I mean they invested in the networks that honored the checks, which is where the real value of the check is. A tight knit sense of group iden tit would be very useful in this business- if you are very selective and rigorous about selecting initiates, a special ring, secret handshake, or special phrase can let a member of the organization in another city know you are a member, in the absence of any electronic communication, which could really facilitate trade financing and security. Having passed the initiatic examination of the fraternal society, you have certain duties, privileges, and rules you must abide by, and consequences if they are broken.

    I don't know why I bring this up. What I mean to say is that the check represents a network and a social movement. If people knew each other, or they knew the issuer of a check, then they would trade gold for a piece of paper, knowing the person who issued the piece of paper was good for it.

     In the same way, bitcoin is not simply a store of value and medium of value transfer, it is a network and social movement. The real value of bitcoin is the value of the bitcoin owners and traders, and thwir level of involvement with it. So people may be bearish about it, but ultimately it's value is a reflection of their own beliefs.

  Thanks for deleting the rude comment, I am a recent graduate just getting into business, and this is not the first time it has been suggested that my thinking is too heavy on theory and too light on practicality. Guess for some the best way to learn is by getting burned.

He also said "If after five minutes at the poker table you don't know who
the patsy is .. then you're the patsy" ..

In other words you need to fully understand the market you're playing in
and you'd better be among the most informed ..

Triff ..

^
Tinfoil hut user spotted.

+1

The btc-e price is usually lower than the other exchanges. It's very odd for it to be higher.

I noticed this and it was my thoughts exactly +1

I deleted that post quite a while ago shortly after posting as thought it was overly and unnecessarily obnoxious. Yes we're in agreement Bitcoin would certainly be useful as a payment system if the price was stable as said previously I used to use it myself,  now I''m far safer using instant payment methods like alipay or paypal even wire transfers preferential. As you point out cheques are a bit out of date and slow and was merely used as an example of the lack of value proposition in a medium over which money is transmitted to highlight the same is true for bitcoin. I'm not sure why you see the algorithmic limit as meaningful as it's such a insanely huge number (100000000*13729850)

1) You have no idea what the people on this forum do either for a living or their general wealth. You might be surprised.

2) The richest and most powerful people in the world got where they were by being ruthless and not playing by the rules.

3) Bitcoin is nothing like a cheque. Cheque's are not algorithmically limited by design, nor freely transmitted anywhere on the globe in an instant.

to answer your question: yes, you are being played.
bitcoin is here to stay. it is here to take back the financial power that we as humans have given up.
this bear market is simply fuel for the next bull run.

   That's the drawback for you, but there are very diverse individuals and businesses on this planet. Also, the check is the basis for the modern banking system and fiat currency, and the most powerful families and individuals in the world right now are the ones who invested heavily in it.

   It's not the check itself that has value- it's the trust that the institution backing it has. This trust, once established, presents a tremendous potential for abuse, and it has been very much abused. Bitcoin offers the potential to replace a large portion of the global financial system, without the need for this trust. Therein lies the value.

      There is still potential for some abuse, especially as the bitcoin consolidate in the hands of a new elite, but in the transition there is a lot of potential. Also, as has been pointed out on this forum before, the volatility will decrease as the size of the market increases, and the fact that people are still making money in the bitcoin market is the guarantee that it will continue to grow. Fiat is not really any less volatile than bitcoin, it's just that the size of the markets are so huge, movements take decades instead of days. Believe me, currency movements in the Euro sometimes have catastrophic results for businesses in Europe and China. This is just one more consideration when running an international business, and bitcoin, in principle, is not much different, just better.

Can I help you please.

Interesting is ah, that. Can we get some moons?

Yes, Fear was at it's peak and soon we can see higher prices when Greed finally has a turn.  

You can't be far off a forest 

The basic law of supply and demand means you need increasing demand to sustain increasing price movements which is mathematically unsustainable. The speculative nature is a major flaw that can't be overcome, I used bitcoin for my business when it was around $5 fairly stable and generally moving upwards, was a bit of a gamble then but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole now and nor would any serious business (just look at what happened to maidsafe from $10 million they tried to raise they lost 6.6 million in collecting worthless maidsafe tokens and now by holding bitcoin they've lost about a further $1.5 million of the $3.5 odd million the raised (clever guys).

There's value to bitcoin in terms of it being a very speedy payment gateway, there's value to checks in the same respect but I wouldn't speculate on the value of a check beyond the paper it's printed on especially if the balance of the underlying account went up and down like a yoyo because of gaping flaws in the concept.

I can't stand people that are invested but try and say "the price doesn't matter it's the technology" it's so full of shit, the techs free so if that's what your a fan of why are you gambling all your money on it!

Thanks TookDk,

It wasnt so much of a speculation thread than it was a question or hope for some insight. It all played out in the end, Picked up just over 4,166BTC @ $168 average yesterday, and started placing orders with my wood sellers from the forum here about an hour ago. So it looks like in summary i got a $186,000 usd discount on next weeks wood orders  Not saying that bitcoin has ever done me wrong, but this week it did me VERY well as a merchant, and frequent user. At this point i realize i dont care who, what, or why the price crashed. I'm just glad i followed my gut and put up a giant buy wall yesterday. I might even increase my wood order quantities since i got such a hell of a deal.

First speculation thread I have read for more than a year with some actual substance in OP.
Thank you!

Weight isn't applicable? seriously?

The actual day to day usage of bitcoin as it was intended and not as a speculative vehicle for trading is exactly what bestows underlying value. The basic law of supply and demand means that the more people that want/need it to use it, the higher this underlying value is.

That's the weight. Thats why I bought, thats why I hold through all this bubble/pop nonsense. Nonsense that is entirely due to those people that bought because they thought it was a get rich scheme and it was 'popular'. Those same people that then bailed again because it turned out it wasn't, because it was 'unpopular'. They are the voters.

If you can't see any value in bitcoin, it doesn't mean there is none.

I expect many of these cycles before it ends (one way or another). Right now there is nothing to suggest it ends badly. Unless your whole premise is price.

I agree with you OP. The manipulator is back! For what purpose is unclear.

It's possible that this could also be an attempt to wipe out some mining entities.  Clearly there are few players able to profit at the current difficulty assuming they're selling at near-market prices, and the hash rate should come crashing down shortly if the exchange rate does not spike back.