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Topic: Are we delusional? - page 3. (Read 2930 times)

newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
July 12, 2015, 11:05:25 PM
#16
All I know is that paypal and western union are terrible.

That is enough for me to know bitcoin will succeed.



How are they terrible? The fees?, and how are those 2 companies an example of how bitcoin will succeed?


Side note: The reason for virtual currency(like in Denmark) is to essentially weed out those type of "wiring exchange houses" so you can send money like via venmo , where debit card to debit card transfers = 0 fees and practically "instantaneous", with bitcoin you have to go into another country that recognizes bitcoin, and then exchange it for their currency and itll be a different value than your home country(sometimes by losing money on the exchange), while if you were to wire transfer your money it would cost a base fee of 45$ to wire it and then if you have a card that waives international exchange fees = way less in cost than bitcoin and more secure.

extra side note: i guess unless you are extra anarchist type, that doesn't like taxes or government to hide your dealings welp, not much of an answer or excuse there i guess...
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
July 12, 2015, 10:57:05 PM
#15
All I know is that paypal and western union are terrible.

That is enough for me to know bitcoin will succeed.

newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
July 12, 2015, 10:48:10 PM
#14
What else is he proposing as digital currency/payments?

Paypal...? Roll Eyes

Anyway, this seems like one of those guys who think the price should've gone from $0.01 to $5million overnight. Rome was built in a day and so on.

Was that directed at me? I am just simply stating case and scenarios of the viability of scale. Also the author presented in that youtube vid has a knowledgeable answer to how he thinks the way of "virtual currencies" will go, never mentioning "cryptocurrencies" because he thinks those will be phased out, just a thought that  I think that should be pointed out.
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 1035
July 12, 2015, 10:30:03 PM
#13
What else is he proposing as digital currency/payments?

Paypal...? Roll Eyes

Anyway, this seems like one of those guys who think the price should've gone from $0.01 to $5million overnight. Rome was built in a day and so on.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
July 12, 2015, 10:27:45 PM
#12
An owner of 1 btc holds 100,000,000 satoshis. An explicitly and provably deflationary currency may have problems of its own, but unit measurement need not be one of them. For every price increase, some of the early hoarders pull the ripcord, this distributes the coin in the fairest way possible.

 
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
July 12, 2015, 10:16:54 PM
#11
Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

Wow, sounds revolutionary, and not already completely saturated. People who want a central party to "back" bitcoin (with the servitude of people's future labors), would best be advised to shun, stay in low load mutual funds, cash, and bonds plz.

LOL, I had a good laugh, Thanks Cconvert2G36 ...
The current question boils down to what purpose can a crypto coin serve that current currency/ banking has not already served?


Side note:  There are still lots of liabilities in crypto coins Eg. Lost Wallets, irreversible transactions, no insurance, Exchange defaults, liquidity etc..

It has inflation that approaches zero, vs approaching infinity. QED

The liabilities you name are commensurate with its status in the global financial market, i.e. tiny, illiquid, volatile, and unforgiving. Scale and services will rise to meet this challenge, and/or the burden will be on the holder of the keys, as it always has been.


I don't know if you have the appropriate idea of inflation vs deflation and the usability of currency, but ill use a case example. Lets just say by 2025 bitcoin reaches 95% of all of its coins into the market, Lets put this figurative number at 20,000,000 coins... Then lets just say every year per annum (year over year) approximately 5% of coins are lost  (currently as of 2015 30% of all bitcoins are "lost").... so by year 2025 there would only be approximately 20-40% viable coins left(4,000,000-8,000,000) ... Okay and then lets account for the halvings as well. At this point lets just say there are "active bitcoin holders" of 100% increase every year lets just say by year 2025 that is a total 250,000,000 active bitcoin holders (not accounting for empty wallets that number could be in the "billions") ... so if we calculate everything people would have to be accounting their bitcoins in satoshi's how would that work out as a viable solution for economical trade. Will everyone have to be a millionaire to even purchase 1 bitcoin?


addition to post:
my brain went on a tangent and forgot to give case example for inflation of the base currencies of USD / EUR / CNY .... currency for inflation on the high end for USD = 3-4% inflation , EURO = 1-2% , CNY = 3-4% ... (These values are greatly optimistic in inflation) ... so 1 dollar in 2025 would still be valued at approximately 80ish cents but you have to remember standard of living and minimum wage increases as a whole, as well as gdp should in the case it doesn't then natural deflation or stagnation occurs.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
July 12, 2015, 10:06:33 PM
#10
Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

Wow, sounds revolutionary, and not already completely saturated. People who want a central party to "back" bitcoin (with the servitude of people's future labors), would best be advised to shun, stay in low load mutual funds, cash, and bonds plz.

LOL, I had a good laugh, Thanks Cconvert2G36 ...
The current question boils down to what purpose can a crypto coin serve that current currency/ banking has not already served?


Side note:  There are still lots of liabilities in crypto coins Eg. Lost Wallets, irreversible transactions, no insurance, Exchange defaults, liquidity etc..

It has inflation that approaches zero, vs approaching infinity. QED

The liabilities you name are commensurate with its status in the global financial market, i.e. tiny, illiquid, volatile, and unforgiving. Scale and services will rise to meet this challenge, and/or the burden will be on the holder of the keys, as it always has been.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
July 12, 2015, 10:00:02 PM
#9
Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

Wow, sounds revolutionary, and not already completely saturated. People who want a central party to "back" bitcoin (with the servitude of people's future labors), would best be advised to shun, stay in low load mutual funds, cash, and bonds plz.

LOL, I had a good laugh, Thanks Cconvert2G36 ...
The current question boils down to what purpose can a crypto coin serve that current currency/ banking has not already served?


Side note:  There are still lots of liabilities in crypto coins Eg. Lost Wallets, irreversible transactions, no insurance, Exchange defaults, liquidity etc..
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
July 12, 2015, 09:54:13 PM
#8
Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.

Wow, sounds revolutionary, and not already completely saturated. People who want a central party to "back" bitcoin (with the servitude of people's future labors), would best be advised to shun, stay in low load mutual funds, cash, and bonds plz.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
July 12, 2015, 09:53:26 PM
#7
He is the delusional retard if he expects that a government will be able to mimic bitcoin in order to facilitate digital payments and digital cash!
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
July 12, 2015, 09:37:09 PM
#6
Just think of it rationally and logically ... Bitcoin uses a base standard currency = USD / EUR / CNY .... now think of it, those currencies alone account for 80% or more of the worlds GDP with established economies and backing of those currencies with the IMF and in net imports and exports to account for their value. How ever Bitcoin is based on backless speculation of a realized "Value" ... How is this value determined?? a ledger? value in property? value in its source code? backed by debt? ... There is only one way to increase "bitcoins value" currently its low volume and an influx of increase of buyer side = short term DELTA of a sellers market instead of a "buyers" market... just think of it as wanting to buy candy and the candy maker was not expecting for an increase in 100% of volume so he has to increase the price to decrease the volume. This is easy to manipulate when there are very small key players in the market. So to the question of delusional... it is up to you to understand the economics and viability of bitcoin. It is only valued as people pump real currency into it and this money is held by your Exchanges... Remember what happened when MT Gox? that is just a reminder.

Edit and addition to my post.
Jeffrey Robinson is quite correct about virtual and digital currency as the future path for currency as its more efficient and is the only measurable answer for the future. Example is Denmark, how ever it is not a "Crypto" system of money its more of a standardized system like using your debit card. This way they can deter fraud and account for various aspects of the system.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Buy and sell bitcoins,
July 12, 2015, 09:12:43 PM
#5
I look forward to bringing that link up again in a few years and having a good laugh.

I can already see their faces in the future. They'd be like:



sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
July 12, 2015, 09:07:34 PM
#4
The CEO of Bitcoin committed suicide, I heard. All the monez was stolen by a guy wearing a magical tux.
legendary
Activity: 889
Merit: 1013
July 12, 2015, 09:03:33 PM
#3
I look forward to bringing that link up again in a few years and having a good laugh.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Buy and sell bitcoins,
July 12, 2015, 07:06:09 PM
#2
People like him would really regret it and eat what they'll say about bitcoin. Bitcoin's future is bright. "The theory of greater fool" yes it is but as I always believe in this quote "Strike the iron while its hot".
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
July 12, 2015, 06:48:55 PM
#1
Just watched this guy speaking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYJdOiLqSxE

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