Topic: Are we now allowing obviously false information to be posted as truth? - page 2. (Read 792 times)

If we could get the extreme P&S opinions to be that covid isn't real, that would be a huge step in the right direction compared to what is said in P&S today. At least with the claim that covid isn't real, normal people can talk about their own experiences, and refute this argument.

This is compared to the suggestion that Mike Pompeo's children should be murdered, and force-fed to Pompeo. No sane person thinks that is a good idea, regardless of his alleged crimes. I also don't think that many sane people would be interested in even discussing such an idea. I might compare someone making this suggestion to someone with a mental illness screaming on the streets of San Francisco. People not only don't want to engage with him, but also don't want to be in that same area.
I think a lot of the extreme threads in P&S are not related to "Politics" or a "recent event in society" even if they mention a political figure.

I don't think these threads should be moved to Off Topic, as this sub is reserved for "other threads that might be of interest to bitcoiners" and the response some of these threads are getting (or more specifically, the lack thereof), shows that many of these threads are not of interest to bitcoiners.

If you watched the video, you would see the video did reference a specific ruling, although I don't think any reasonable person would make the same conclusion that the person in the video made.

I don't have a problem with people posting what I believe to be "false information", as it is entirely possible what they write may turn out to be true, or if not, as you mentioned, people can post rebuttals to said false information. I am more concerned about people posting extremists views. It is not only that the views are extreme, it is that a lot of threads are suggesting things that are near-universally seen as unacceptable by society, such as harming people known to be innocent. As I have mentioned previously, another issue is that some people are posting things that are simply not interesting to ~all other forum members based on the number of responses they are getting, however, these people are creating many threads and these threads are often clogging up the first page of P&S.

I think his argument is that BADecker is making the argument against taking the covid vaccine and that fewer vaccinations will result in more covid deaths.

I think people should be able to make the choice as to if they want to take the vaccine or not. As is said in the OP, the thread in question is clearly false, and I seriously doubt that anyone is going to have their mind changed on the vaccine based on that thread. Further, the best way to fight "bad" speech is with more speech.

You just now realizing this? There are people in paid positions on this forum and in DT who have been spreading lies about me and my activity for years. They group up with other trolls and base their personal feelings of worth on whether or not they can inject themselves into discussions and feel important. They don’t care if everything they say is nonsense. Shit, read the stuff Vod said about me over the years. The lack of following up on threats from the administration has turned this forum into a joke in my eyes. The untrustworthy behavior started at the top…

You just described a good number of full-time P&S residents here. I agree it is odd and counter-intuitive that when presented access to unlimited information, people generally ignore it to hone in on finding evidence that supports their pre-existing beliefs, so they don't actually have to learn anything.


No, he clearly gets joy out of being an annoying maniac. So I have no sympathy for him beyond that of any normal person.

 


This sounds great. It's not like mental illness-driven posts just don't have to do with Bitcoin, the blockchain or crypto -- they don't have to do with anything. Maybe they can be moved to Off-Topic and we can further designate that as the trash board.

The upside to tolerating manic nutcases like Bitunlocker is eventually they crash hard, disappear and have to recoup for a while. As one of the forum's most prolific posters, BADecker is truly touched, however.

I kind of figured there was a personal reason why you reacted as strongly to BADecker's post as you did.  I'm sorry for your brother-in-law, and I know caring for someone with dementia is very hard.  I'll just leave it at that.

At the moment I am caring for a sick bro-in-law he has dementia .

He now has the memory span of 2-3 minutes for any new info.

He is basically fucked .  So the shotguns are not in his house he used to hunt a bit with his dad. He is 71 and has one thing wrong his brain.  At the moment there are about 11 million people with some dementia.

He can shoot accurately he can run and jump and do most anything except remember that he looked as his bank account 37 times today. He was not very violent but if he thought you were a lizard person or a hybrid trans due to a shot of rna he would likely shoot you with the 12 gauge in your left eye 👁 he like to shoot gsme in the left eye.

He is 71 and needs a lot of attention .  My point is there are a lot of bro-in-laws that will struggle with info presented as truth.

Most likely this is why the thread 🧵 got to me.

We have to remove us to prevent scams on this forum, it is possible to report to moderators on this topic which is not true. I have seen a lot of topics reported like this and it is something we need to take immediate action against those who are acting suspiciously. damn if I killed people without committing a crime, I would have killed those bad guys. that's why we should all be on the lookout for sophisticated scams on our forums.

This forum is certainly not good place for people with mental health issues and it is quite possible that by giving a platform to delusional individuals we're making the problem worse. I can't really see any upside to this for anyone, but if it's necessary for some unknown-to-me reason to allow this nonsense to continue, maybe those threads should be locked after a few responses. That way the troubled person still has an outlet, but there is less collateral garbage. It should be quite clear by now which topics will never result in any kind of intelligent discussion.

I still can't tell if they're a troll or a zealot.  Maybe they really do fervently believe the drivel they post.  The strange thing about the internet is that it has enabled confirmation bias to an extent never seen before.  It seems to have a particularly strong effect on narcissists and anyone else who already has a disposition towards narrow-mindedness.  And if all someone does is constantly reinforce their preconceived notions, it probably will start to inhibit their ability to reason.  I think people can only do so much of that before their brains turn to mush and they go full-crackpot.

If, as a result of this, someone is completely misinformed to the point where they can no longer distinguish between reality and fantasy, is it still an act of malice?  Or should we feel sorry for these fractured minds?

It's good that someone brought up this issue because a lot of blatantly false statements and threads that could impact people understanding negatively were created in the Politics and Society section, this is not something new to the members of this forum that usually visit this section but I later concluded that something that has to do with politics is always a mind game.

Ja. That's why when dealing with general statements I've learned to use the words 'folks', 'people, 'a person' or even 'one' etc instead of 'you' as it hopefully takes possible reference to a specific individual out of the picture.

note the bold type question 'you' is being used to describe any and all humans that are dehumanizing other humans.

I have not seen you do that.

 So if I was using  'you'  (humans that dehumanize other humans) in a way that confused you (the pharmacist) my apologies as that was not direct at you  

This is why the internet can be a bitch as in no way do I say you did that or believe you do that. But when you look at type it could be confusing.

When you say "you", are you talking about me or BADecker?  I never said humans aren't humans, so I'm confused by that statement.

I think you're making an enormous mountain out of a molehill.  I looked through that thread and nowhere does BADecker call for the killing of anyone.  What is this murder of 3 billion people you're talking about?

And to everyone else: I don't claim there shouldn't be limits on free speech, but the government controlling the dissemination of information based on whether they believe it's true or false is a very bad thing.  Science has made mistakes many, many times in the past, you know.  Science is changing all the time as new information is discovered, and people should be able to have all arguments laid out on the table in order to judge for themselves instead of having everything filtered through a governmental censor.

As to what bitcointalk does, that's less of a concern to me.

You got me to smile a bit thanks.

Don't you know that he (and B1tUnl0ck3r) are immune because they are one of the Inbred Reptilian Overlords that secretly rule over Humanity?  
Neither of them are about to allow Truth or Facts get in the way of a good lie...

Well it certainly is untrue since there is no documents from the SC about this ruling.
Even if we believe that you are not going to be human anymore after receiving vaccine, its thd document that this thread is up to. The document linking that the statement is from SC.

Sometimes conspiracy theories are just way too much to believe.

I'm not a fan of getting involved in this sort of stuff and 'fact-checking' things because it's a slippery slope. Should something that is false be reported and mods then have to investigate and do some research to determine whether something is factually correct or not? We don't moderate scams and this shouldn't be much different. I think it's going way too far when social networks started stepping in and putting warnings on things like covid misinformation, especially when it can be used to censor concerns, worries or just alternative viewpoints. I don't need a warning on a post by a flat-earther saying that the scientific consensus is that the earth is round. I can make my own mind up on whether something is true or not. I think it's best to just either ignore it or make a cause for why you think they're wrong.

The problem I have with BADecker's post is the lack of proper references. If you claim the Supreme Court ruled something, at least add a link to the official ruling. A proper title would have been:
Now he's using the Supreme Court's name to add credibility to a claim made by someone else. Isn't that slander?

Say someone posts a topic: "LoyceV is Satoshi", and uses randomshitcoin.com^* as a source. It's obvious it's not true, and it's obvious the source isn't credible. On the other hand, if someone posts: "I believe LoyceV is Satoshi", I have no problem with that.
I always assumed freedom of speech was for opinions, not for stating facts. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

Does not being human mean I can stop paying taxes?
^*My apologies to randomshitcoin.com, which apparently exists already.

I would really like to hear his opinion on this.
From my point of view, I would have of course banned anyone that uses this forum the way he and others do, it's clear that he is not that interested in bitcoin as much as using this forum to distribute his political "views" and nothing else, I guess that website he linking that much in his posts is his own, right?

But I think that the decision on banning somebody for fake news should be based on the content of those fake news, not just because something is fake or misleading.Of course, in this case, is fairly obvious what's real and what's not real but there are hundreds of others topics where things are not that clear, enforcing such a rule on the entire forum won't work.

I am finding the debate interesting because I think we are moving from judging this particular case to talking in general about what the limits to freedom of expression should be. I don't have an explicit idea, but it is clear to me that there have to be some limits, for example, I agree with the unofficial rule 8: "No threats to inflict bodily harm, death threats." I think it is clear that this should be a limit to freedom of speech, but it seems to refer only between forumers and not when a forumer talks about external people, as suchmoon says:


On the other hand, I think philipma1957 is right in this particular case when he says:


This is not nonsense, the great genocides of humanity have been committed because the other was dehumanized. Hitler dehumanized the Jews, the Hutu dehumanized the Tutsi etc. and when you do not consider the person in front of you as human, but as a cockroach, what you do is to kill him and when you finish, not only do you not feel pity but disgust.


I still have the report in unhandled, it seems to me that it will stay that way. I suppose that at the slightest doubt on that board no action is taken because of respect for freedom of expression, and if in this same thread we do not agree, it is normal that the moderators have doubts.

100% this. The majority of rational and sensible people don't bother posting in or even visiting P&S because any semi-intelligent post is drowned out by insane opinions. It's not entirely dissimilar to the situation with Bitcoin Discussion, with many good posters avoiding the board entirely because any semi-decent post is drowned out by spam.

It is impossible to have a fact driven discussion regarding, for example, the best way of easing lockdown restrictions, without being flooded with nonsense about how COVID isn't real but it also is real but it's just a flu but actually it's all a psy-op and the vaccine doesn't work but also it's a nanochip but also it's gene therapy but also it's a lethal injection but also it's mind control etc. etc.

I still don't think we should delete those insane opinions, but I would be all for moving them all to Off Topic or something similar. Or I guess we just treat P&S as Off Topic 2 and any reasonable discussion move to Serious Discussion.

Here's the issue what that though: In my opinion, stating that vaccines aren't life saving/cause autism/are microchips in disguide/any of the other bullshit is a blatant falsehood which endangers public safety, so therefore, we should delete every anti-vax post. I'm fairly certain there would be a significant amount of fall out if we did that.