Are web3 casinos actually decentralized?

stompix

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Quote from: _act_ on December 16, 2024, 01:23:45 AM

Quote from: stompix on December 16, 2024, 01:15:40 AM

Can you still play on it and bet on it if the .com domain is seized?
If the answer is yes, then it's a true Web 3.0 casino, if it's no then is just a centralized normal web2 site like the others.

Web3 was proposed in a way that it will be decentralized but actually web3 is not decentralized but centralized in this modern world. Only advantage I saw about web3 is that you can connect your wallet and make transaction with other parties. Or are those web3 not centralized? They are all centralized has been what I noticed about them. Tor which is decentralized has been existing before web3.

Web 3 is decentralization, by definition!
The fact that some claim they have a web3 product and it turns out it's not a decentralized one, it doesn't mean the definition has changed, it just means they are liars trying to create fomo on a buzzword.

The fact that it can't be achieved in the current format by most of our websites it's pretty normal, decentralization has limits, and torrents work perfectly without a main site, but you still need a central point where those are distributed, tor works like this because it's a simple tool that doesn't need anything else just pass information from one point to another, with casinos you will need people to add games, people to maintain odds, people to be in charge of payment wallets, each one is a point of centralization and that is not doable right now.

_act_

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Quote from: stompix on December 16, 2024, 01:15:40 AM

Can you still play on it and bet on it if the .com domain is seized?
If the answer is yes, then it's a true Web 3.0 casino, if it's no then is just a centralized normal web2 site like the others.

Web3 was proposed in a way that it will be decentralized but actually web3 is not decentralized but centralized in this modern world. Only advantage I saw about web3 is that you can connect your wallet and make transaction with other parties. Or are those web3 not centralized? They are all centralized has been what I noticed about them. Tor which is decentralized has been existing before web3.

stompix

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Quote from: Ziskinberg on December 07, 2024, 11:19:39 AM

I think when people ask whether a casino is decentralized or not, they’re usually referring to the KYC aspect. For decentralized casinos, it typically means no KYC. however, in the case of Web3 casinos, some are still regulated and hold licenses, so they aren’t truly decentralized.

So by this logic back when Binance offered no KYC trading, did that make Binance a decentralised exchange?
I can open an account on Twitter with no KYC, I can open an account on FB without one, are those decentralized platforms?

Quote from: _act_ on December 05, 2024, 12:22:38 PM

What I like about Metawin is that it is both web3 and web2 as you can connect to your noncustodial wallet, you can also pay with fiat or crypto just like web2.

Can you still play on it and bet on it if the .com domain is seized?
If the answer is yes, then it's a true Web 3.0 casino, if it's no then is just a centralized normal web2 site like the others.

Hispo

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Quote from: retreat on December 16, 2024, 12:56:26 AM

So from this explanation, we can conclude that web3 casino is nothing more than a general online casino that runs on a centralized system. However, I don't really care if the platform is centrally run or not, what matters to me is how reputable, regulated, and honest the online casino is with their services to their users - unlike those casino platforms that say they are decentralized when in reality they are not.

Reputation, regulation, honesty and also liquidity. You cannot keep liquidity out of the equation when comes to trusting a gaming platform with your deposits. Since liquidity often depends on the volume of money wagered by the whole number of gamblers in the platform itself, it makes sense those casinos with have the most number of gamblers are the more likely not to have any problems to pay those who end up being winners, just another reason to stay with big casinos and those (as it stands for now) are centralized.

Decentralized casinos with enough liquidity could appear in the future, though I am afraid regulators will try to kill them before they fully develop to their maximum potential.

retreat

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So from this explanation, we can conclude that web3 casino is nothing more than a general online casino that runs on a centralized system. However, I don't really care if the platform is centrally run or not, what matters to me is how reputable, regulated, and honest the online casino is with their services to their users - unlike those casino platforms that say they are decentralized when in reality they are not.

tread93

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Quote from: goldkingcoiner on December 15, 2024, 02:21:15 PM

There are no truly decentralized casinos yet.

There are casinos that call themselves Web3, decentralized, etc.... But that alone is plain marketing. If the casino has the option to reverse transactions, freeze funds or any other method of seizing control over the payment system then it is centralized.

I think making a casino decentralized may be harder than we believe.

It may be fully possible to achieve a fully decentralized web 3 casino in the future, its just a matter of time. Once that is in place then you have the spirit of bitcoin itself eh? something fully decentralized from a central authority is very appealing. I think in that sort of betting predicament it can't be all that much fun compared to real gambling in an actual casino.

Alphakilo

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on December 04, 2024, 10:54:56 AM

Meaning that there is no difference, the decentralisation idea is meaningless, since once you click start the casino is in control, for me I believe that decentralisation is still far from online casinos, none is close yet, maybe someday this will be possible.

And honestly, I don't care because I don't even need web3 on casinos, I am good with what casinos are offering right now.

I don't have much to say on this other than there is no truly decentralized web3 casino. They may have some features that make them look decentralized but essentially the overall platform still relies on centralized control and infrastructure. Some of the centralized features that I am referring to are centrally managed user accounts, KYC checks, and customer complaints being managed centrally.

We are still far from achieving fully and completely decentralized web3 casinos. It will happen once the technical challenges which are associated with decentralization are surmounted.

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: Fortify on December 15, 2024, 01:48:28 PM

It's just a buzz word really and what does decentralized even mean in this context, because you could call the latest cloud computing hosting providers to be "decentralized" in the sense that they are spread out across many synced servers to offer redundancy. Maybe it will happen in future, but all of these casinos have to be hosted somewhere, even if it is an entirely different blockchain - that might be vulnerable to different kinds of attacks by governments who may wish to crack down on financial laws they feel are being broken. Have you actually got any examples of casinos that claim to be web3, or is it all just theory and hyperbole at the moment, because nobody has yet confirmed they work?

I agree 100%. It is a buzz word that's being used for so long to make people believe that they are no under any regulations that are being done by the government but sooner or later, you will figure it out that they are under or being controlled by a regulation in the government where they are headquartered. I am yet to see an actual decentralized casino that's fully run by a community and not having any central power or authority that manages it. I think it's hard to find something like that which is driven by its people that believes on its business and have some incentives for the people that manages it. That's why people are also wise that they are not fond to these types of casinos because they understand what business really is and how it goes in the gambling industry.

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Quote from: Ziskinberg on December 07, 2024, 11:19:39 AM

Quote from: Wexnident on December 06, 2024, 06:36:03 PM

Aren't most casinos still considered web2 anyway? I mean afaik, there's no casino out there that is registered that'd just let me play with a wallet and nothing else. I at least consider that as what they mean with the web3 casino thing. Most platforms still have the concept of "Depositing" and I'm pretty sure that already negates the definition of web3 in their platforms.

And web3 in general means decentralized, meaning no central control entity whatnot and no personal information needed/required. Pretty sure most casinos have KYC and that again, also negates the idea that it's a web3 casino as well.

I think when people ask whether a casino is decentralized or not, they’re usually referring to the KYC aspect. For decentralized casinos, it typically means no KYC. however, in the case of Web3 casinos, some are still regulated and hold licenses, so they aren’t truly decentralized.

The term "decentralized" shouldn’t be used as a blanket term. If we believe a Web3 casino is decentralized, it should apply to everything, including the games they offer. But can you really call sports betting decentralized? That’s a tough one to justify.

Hmm, your point is quite solid and we need to ask ourselves some good questions before we could ask these casinos owners what they actually mean by web3 because some just claim to be a web3 casinos without no better features to show that. Maybe they just want to follow the market trend and what to be on top of the games while constantly attracting more users to their brands. Many of the so called web3 casinos are legit but are never decentralized. Some will still ask for KYC from users claiming that it's a way to know if the source is actually from a reputable source or a way to avoid money laundry.

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After provable fairness for me not everything needs to be decentralized anymore. Being non custodian comes at an expense of speed, versatility and cost.

So I'd really much rather we be aware of these advantages of whatever platform is centralized before bringing up the advantages of decentralization for gambling. Gambling is mostly just for fun so these advantages don't hold much weight here.

Unless any web3 platform can bring an equivalent experience it's not that worthy of discussion for me as these platform are not really as convenient to use as normal ones. Let alone the fact that randomness on chain is a very tricky topic.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

You are not wrong mate.
Already many people's describe that just only for the usage of of the Blockchain or a decentralized wallet that doesn't mean that platform is a decentralized platform. Here I want to give an example something like the bitcoin stake on the decentralized platform I want to meant that even if platform announce that they are decentralized platform if you stake your fund that mean you have already gave the funds to that platform so in my opinion that doesn't give the decentralized system like some semi decentralized platform says that they were fully decentralized but the main smart keys on their hand to control over all the wallet funds on that casino.

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There are no truly decentralized casinos yet.

There are casinos that call themselves Web3, decentralized, etc.... But that alone is plain marketing. If the casino has the option to reverse transactions, freeze funds or any other method of seizing control over the payment system then it is centralized.

I think making a casino decentralized may be harder than we believe.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

I think there are many gambling platforms who offers a web3 app that's said to be decentralized but they're just using that concept to attract more players who like that kind of idea. But it's kinda annoying that there are some "decentralized" web3 gambling platforms but doesn't act as decentralized because you still need KYC for withdrawing funds and such. That's why you really need to know the difference between a traditional online platform and a modern gambling platform that acts with this new technology.

We all know that the true decentralization works with us having easy transactions through blockchains, in and out, no one can control and hold those transactions.

Fortify

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

If it was before, I think that web3 casinos can offer non KYC service than web2 casinos. But when I am reading some people's post, they talked that web3 casinos are decentralized in a way that the gamblers will be in control of their coins using a noncustodial wallet. But according to how I know about web3 gambling sites, they operate in a way that once the gamblers connect their wallet and make payment, the gambling site is in control of the money. Which means no gambling site to be decentralized as the gambling site and the money is controlled by the gambling site owners and not any other parties involved that can make them decentralized. Am I wrong? J think many of us do not know what decentralization is.

It's just a buzz word really and what does decentralized even mean in this context, because you could call the latest cloud computing hosting providers to be "decentralized" in the sense that they are spread out across many synced servers to offer redundancy. Maybe it will happen in future, but all of these casinos have to be hosted somewhere, even if it is an entirely different blockchain - that might be vulnerable to different kinds of attacks by governments who may wish to crack down on financial laws they feel are being broken. Have you actually got any examples of casinos that claim to be web3, or is it all just theory and hyperbole at the moment, because nobody has yet confirmed they work?

Saint-loup

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Some are fake indeed because even if you can play there without registering a real account with a login and a password but just by connecting a wallet through Metmask or WalletConnect they require people to make deposits to another wallet, a non-custodial wallet actually. So they can lock your balance whenever they want in reality. While Web3 really decentralized casinos, let you play directly with your connected wallet, so only stakes currently bet could eventually be locked or stolen(scammed) theoretically. But they never do that in practice because losing its reputation for a small stake would be ridiculous. In addition bankroll of those casinos if often shared between users, so the "house" doesn't belong to a central entity.

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Quote from: Wexnident on December 06, 2024, 06:36:03 PM

Aren't most casinos still considered web2 anyway? I mean afaik, there's no casino out there that is registered that'd just let me play with a wallet and nothing else. I at least consider that as what they mean with the web3 casino thing. Most platforms still have the concept of "Depositing" and I'm pretty sure that already negates the definition of web3 in their platforms.

And web3 in general means decentralized, meaning no central control entity whatnot and no personal information needed/required. Pretty sure most casinos have KYC and that again, also negates the idea that it's a web3 casino as well.

I think when people ask whether a casino is decentralized or not, they’re usually referring to the KYC aspect. For decentralized casinos, it typically means no KYC. however, in the case of Web3 casinos, some are still regulated and hold licenses, so they aren’t truly decentralized.

The term "decentralized" shouldn’t be used as a blanket term. If we believe a Web3 casino is decentralized, it should apply to everything, including the games they offer. But can you really call sports betting decentralized? That’s a tough one to justify.

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Quote from: coin-investor on December 05, 2024, 06:38:58 AM

We all love decentralization, but if we look at the gambling industry, there's not one stable or popular web3 casino; there are some, but they cater to one community of chains like the Tron or Solana community. Centralized casinos are preferable because they are flexible and compliant; they serve the needs of the players through their support.
Not all web3 have support; you are left on your own if issues arise.

Firstly, I'll state that I'm also perfectly fine running on the available options such as Rollbit or Roobet and many others that have a decent reputation, even though they're not decentralized. I'm not familiar with web3 and the decentralized casinos, but since there are currently a few platforms out there, such as Metawin, isn't it safe to assume that there may be more to come in the future?

Perhaps the need of fully decentralized casinos doesn't have enough audience yet, or isn't viable to exist under these conditions, as I'm seeing that even though Metawin appears to be decentralized, you can connect your Metamask or any other wallet directly and have full access to your funds, it still requires KYC.

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Quote from: _act_ on December 04, 2024, 10:42:59 AM

~

To pretend to be decentralized is not same as to be from this class of stuff. I don't know any casino ^{declaring themselves as Web3 ones} that may be classified as decentralized casino. Should they be decentralized thay would based on p2p framework assured by dedicated software rather than client-server architecture. ^{I always like to instance bisq as a good example of real decentralized system.}

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Aren't most casinos still considered web2 anyway? I mean afaik, there's no casino out there that is registered that'd just let me play with a wallet and nothing else. I at least consider that as what they mean with the web3 casino thing. Most platforms still have the concept of "Depositing" and I'm pretty sure that already negates the definition of web3 in their platforms.

And web3 in general means decentralized, meaning no central control entity whatnot and no personal information needed/required. Pretty sure most casinos have KYC and that again, also negates the idea that it's a web3 casino as well.

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Quote from: JunaidAzizi on December 05, 2024, 12:56:52 PM

Decentralization simply means no rule of central authority. In Web 2, centralization was prevalent, and players had to go through the KYC process. However, then Web 3 was launched, which aimed to focus more on decentralization and being KYC-free. But in today's time, most Web 3 casinos require KYC because of legal pressure. Here the question arises, how much are Web 3 casinos compromised regarding KYC, or is it just a formality due to pressure from higher authorities on casinos?

We need to discuss this openly because it relates to our privacy and our control over our funds. Web 3 was launched to give players control over their funds, but if they need KYC, then our fund will be on control of the casino and decentralization will be comprised.

The use of web 3 is not only focused on kyc only, there are other thigs which they also serve as we may not be seeing their projections more often to how we do with the request on the use of kyc by them, if we are going to consider kyc mainly in this, then we should know that we are going to deal with those kind of casinos that does not support or require the use of kyc, they actually exist and just that they are not being common as the ones that demands for kyc.

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