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Topic: Are you sick of getting scammed?! Then come on in...... (Read 2041 times)

legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
scam

Who are you calling a scam? Yochdog or Obsi? Do you have any evidence to back it up?

I am also confused by this.....If you are calling my offer a scam, you are simply trolling for the sake of trolling. 

If you are saying Obsi is a scam, I have no ground for comment and it should be posted elsewhere. 
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
I'll vouch for yochdog as having done a successful multi-thousand dollar deal with him a few months back.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
Hey guys, thanks for all the responses.....I will try to address all of the questions/replies in this post.


What are my other BTC obligations?

I currently have an 11,000 BTC loan with a long time forum member who wishes to remain anonymous.

I know you have a large mining operation, but you already sold most (all?) of that on GLSBE, so Im not sure how much BTC income you still have and whats going to happen to that debt  if BTC exchange rate doubles or triples?

Quote
I wholeheartedly agree.  There are 2 opportunities with available to me for which I will use the funds......one major and one minor.  The major opportunity is simply purchasing more equity in my firm.  I currently own a sizable minority interest, but more has been made available to me.  The business is 46 years old, and has never earned less than 20% ROE.  Many years we are closer to 30%.  

I assume you will tell any potential investors which firm that is, so they can check the financials and your claim to a stake of it? Perhaps rather than requesting a loan, you could float some shares of that company on GLSBE, backed up by actual company shares, and you take your cut of dividend payments or management fees?

Quote
I completely agree a lower APR does not automatically remove any risk of a ponzi.....I just hope in doing a more rational type of lending that is successful, persons will stop engaging in the type of schemes that inevitably blow-up.  The insanely high yield offerings we see bandied about are a red flag, and a huge one at that.  

20% APR is also a big red flag, just sayin.

You are mis-informed.  I still own the vast majority of my mining operation.  Less than 30% is owned by others.  There is no debt associated with the mining company, as they are shares....not bonds. 

I will gladly share financial statements with interested parties.....in fact I had planned on it and have consolidated statements from the last 3 years ready to go. 

I have no desire to float shares as a pass-through to my firm.  I do not much care for the GLBSE format, and feel dealing directly with lenders is the better path. 

I am not offering 20%.  I am offering 10%.....on an annual basis.  I earn 20-30% from my equity in a very profitable firm, and it is an opportunity unavailable to anyone but current partners.....hence the great ROI. 

legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Hey guys, thanks for all the responses.....I will try to address all of the questions/replies in this post.


What are my other BTC obligations?

I currently have an 11,000 BTC loan with a long time forum member who wishes to remain anonymous.

I know you have a large mining operation, but you already sold most (all?) of that on GLSBE, so Im not sure how much BTC income you still have and whats going to happen to that debt  if BTC exchange rate doubles or triples?

Quote
I wholeheartedly agree.  There are 2 opportunities with available to me for which I will use the funds......one major and one minor.  The major opportunity is simply purchasing more equity in my firm.  I currently own a sizable minority interest, but more has been made available to me.  The business is 46 years old, and has never earned less than 20% ROE.  Many years we are closer to 30%.  

I assume you will tell any potential investors which firm that is, so they can check the financials and your claim to a stake of it? Perhaps rather than requesting a loan, you could float some shares of that company on GLSBE, backed up by actual company shares, and you take your cut of dividend payments or management fees?

Quote
I completely agree a lower APR does not automatically remove any risk of a ponzi.....I just hope in doing a more rational type of lending that is successful, persons will stop engaging in the type of schemes that inevitably blow-up.  The insanely high yield offerings we see bandied about are a red flag, and a huge one at that.  

20% APR is also a big red flag, just sayin.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
scam

Who are you calling a scam? Yochdog or Obsi? Do you have any evidence to back it up?
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500

Q.  Why on Earth would I lend to you when I can get with Pirate, Hashking, PPT, Bitcoinmax , etc?

You forgot about OBSI.HRPT (1% per day), which is still going!
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
Hey guys, thanks for all the responses.....I will try to address all of the questions/replies in this post.


What are my other BTC obligations?

I currently have an 11,000 BTC loan with a long time forum member who wishes to remain anonymous.  The balance on that loan has been paid down to 9,000 BTC and the next payment is not due until February.  I do, however, plan on aggressively paying it off early as I have been thus far.  There is a thread dealing with that loan in the lending sub-forum, and I post periodic updates for those interested parties.  


Wouldn't it make more sense to do the loan on a dollar basis?

In a perfect world?  Absolutely.  The issue I see is most holders of substantial BTC do not wish to lend in dollars.  They think in terms of BTC and want to loan in terms of BTC.  In addition, many of them believe the price of BTC will only go higher (debatable of course), thus do not want to lock into a dollar loan and lose out on appreciation.  I think it is just a simpler solution to do all calculations in BTC, in conjunction with the aforementioned price collar.  


I think potential lenders will also want to know more about how you will spend or invest their money to achieve that 20+% APR. Without that knowledge, they cant assess the risk and it would be difficult to distinguish your offer from a slow ponzi.

I wholeheartedly agree.  There are 2 opportunities with available to me for which I will use the funds......one major and one minor.  The major opportunity is simply purchasing more equity in my firm.  I currently own a sizable minority interest, but more has been made available to me.  The business is 46 years old, and has never earned less than 20% ROE.  Many years we are closer to 30%.  It makes a lot of sense for me to borrow at 10% and earn at 30%.  The second, much smaller opportunity is engaging in small currency exchange transactions.  I have several individuals who transact through me, and I make a nice spread on both sides.  It is not much, but I believe it can grow if I had more working capital available.  


A.  I have legitimate real-world business opportunities that offer me 20-25% annual returns.  They are limited in scale, but I am glad to make the 10-15% spread for my trouble and avoid the anal exam that comes along with bank loans.

Sorry, but unless you disclose the nature of these and offer some proof, there is nothing in your post to distinguish you  from pirate in the early days. Merely offering lower returns does not automatically make you more trustworthy. I can offer 1% APR or 0.1% APR and still walk away with your money.

Please don't see this as an attack. From what I have seen of you on these forums, I believe you are trustworthy. I'm just pointing out that you will need to provide some proof of your RL business.

I don't see this as an attack at all.....people SHOULD ask hard questions, and be very skeptical.  If we had more of that, perhaps Pirate would not have been able to take so many people for so many Bitcoins.  Above I briefly explain the opportunities, and there is not much more to it than that.  You would be financing my acquisition of very attractive equity in a business I have worked for nearly a decade.  

I completely agree a lower APR does not automatically remove any risk of a ponzi.....I just hope in doing a more rational type of lending that is successful, persons will stop engaging in the type of schemes that inevitably blow-up.  The insanely high yield offerings we see bandied about are a red flag, and a huge one at that.  




full member
Activity: 169
Merit: 100
Firstbits : 1Hannes
A.  I have legitimate real-world business opportunities that offer me 20-25% annual returns.  They are limited in scale, but I am glad to make the 10-15% spread for my trouble and avoid the anal exam that comes along with bank loans.

Sorry, but unless you disclose the nature of these and offer some proof, there is nothing in your post to distinguish you  from pirate in the early days. Merely offering lower returns does not automatically make you more trustworthy. I can offer 1% APR or 0.1% APR and still walk away with your money.

Please don't see this as an attack. From what I have seen of you on these forums, I believe you are trustworthy. I'm just pointing out that you will need to provide some proof of your RL business.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
I think potential lenders will also want to know more about how you will spend or invest their money to achieve that 20+% APR. Without that knowledge, they cant assess the risk and it would be difficult to distinguish your offer from a slow ponzi.
full member
Activity: 167
Merit: 100
if you plan to convert the BTCs to USD and use the dollars to accelerate your dollar based business wouldn't it make more sense to make the loan on a USD basis? Parties agree on a BTC->USD , USD->BTC conversion rule (like MtGox weighted average or similar). I use BTCs to transfer funds but both the principal and the interest is accounted in dollars. When you pay back you simply calculate the BTC value of the payment and transfer the BTCs.

This way you are clearly hedged and the entire scheme is simpler to comprehend.
sr. member
Activity: 337
Merit: 252
-Exchange rate collar of +-30% to protect both lender and borrower from extreme price movements.  Starting point of the collar will be the spot price at time of each funds transfer

This is not constructed in the right way. The price of an option increases with the time to maturity, because the probability that the bitcoin price will change more than 30% is of course higher if you wait for 6 months than if you wait only three months.
If you want to bundle two options into the price of the loan then you will have to offer more for a loan with a longer time to maturity. Otherwise only a stupid person would loan out for longer than the minimum 90 days.

BTW. I believe collar is the right term for this construction.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
all this constant scamming is going to turn the general public away from bitcoin.  we need BRIGHT news, not scandals!

I 100% agree.

That is precisely why I am offering a legitimate, REASONABLE lending opportunity to the forum.  The sooner we run out the shysters and HYIP morons, the better the future of BTC will be. 
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
www.bitcointrading.com
all this constant scamming is going to turn the general public away from bitcoin.  we need BRIGHT news, not scandals!
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Quote
Are you sick of getting scammed?!

Never! This is bitcointalk.org, after all.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
Will there be a pass-through on GLBSE?

LOL.

Well played sir.  Well played. 

But no.....I prefer to keep this a direct lender/borrower relationship.

Is there a minimum deposit size?

no......but I would prefer to keep them 50 BTC and above. 
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
0xFB0D8D1534241423
Will there be a pass-through on GLBSE?

LOL.

Well played sir.  Well played. 

But no.....I prefer to keep this a direct lender/borrower relationship.
I'm not sure you can prevent one from appearing.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Will there be a pass-through on GLBSE?

LOL.

Well played sir.  Well played. 

But no.....I prefer to keep this a direct lender/borrower relationship.

Is there a minimum deposit size?
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1000
Will there be a pass-through on GLBSE?

LOL.

Well played sir.  Well played. 

But no.....I prefer to keep this a direct lender/borrower relationship.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Will there be a pass-through on GLBSE?
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