Aren't we headed towards getting a 10k (or maybe higher) shot again?

veleten

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this year might end on the lowest note , this is surprising since the last quarter is usually pretty good for bitcoin
there has been predominantly bullish trend in the fourth quarter and ATH of 2017 happened too
I guess not this time ,after re-revisiting 10k several times this year , we seem to be looking to end it in between 6.700-7.500$ range
again , predicting BTC price is pointless ,but this thread is speculation , so I'm speculating

if you look at the big picture instead , next year is what going to be a fun year , because of the halving
so it doesn't really matter if we drop to 6k or not , I am almost sure ( as much as you can be with btc , lol ) we will see a substantial price growth come next year and through out the next couple of years , because this is how it behaves historically during the halving ,its a parabolic increase

The Sceptical Chymist

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Last month I wrote this in this thread:

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 08, 2019, 06:49:11 AM

but I do think $10k is going to be the next stop once bitcoin can break out of this range its been in. The market vibe is definitely more bullish right now than bearish, which is a change from only a month or so ago when bitcoin was at $7k.

Whoops, guess I was very much wrong. Bitcoin did sink to $66XX after I wrote that (I think), but I kind of figured that it wouldn't happen again--but obviously it's doing that right now, as the price is $6891 at the moment. That's what I get for making silly predictions about bitcoin, the most unpredictable asset ever known to man. I'll never understand its machinations. I will keep my hope up that $10k isn't out of the question for next year, though.

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 16, 2019, 02:47:54 PM

looks like we're probably headed to $6k (at least) first......

Hopefully not that low, but who knows. I sure as hell don't.

figmentofmyass

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looks like we're probably headed to $6k (at least) first......

Quote from: Wexlike on December 16, 2019, 02:00:44 PM

I bet a lot of the demand in the Bitcoin spot market these days is from individuals with some extra knowledge of what's going down in the traditional banking/financial world. It definitely feels like we're at the Bear Stearns phase of this coming meltdown, like someone is quietly getting bailed out of bankruptcy. The Lehman phase can't be far off.

the market doesn't believe that at all. look at the stock markets---they keep making new highs. the SPX and NASDAQ literally both just made a new ATH today. the market is exuberant, which is a very different context than when bear stearns was acquired. at that time, the market had already topped, made a lower high, and sold off.

everybody is chomping at the bit trying to predict the next recession and financial crisis. too soon IMO.

Wexlike

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It's shaping up to be a very... interesting week. Big money flying around in the traditional markets -- corporate tax payments, T-bill settlements and so on -- could cause a gotcha or two. Fed says it's going to inject another $500 billion to backstop the whole thing so no immediate worries... maybe.

I bet a lot of the demand in the Bitcoin spot market these days is from individuals with some extra knowledge of what's going down in the traditional banking/financial world. It definitely feels like we're at the Bear Stearns phase of this coming meltdown, like someone is quietly getting bailed out of bankruptcy. The Lehman phase can't be far off.

Pay attention to traditional financial news this week. Could be some golden nuggets if you know how to read between the lines. There will either be a frantic attempt to dump BTC or an unstoppable wave of panic buying from those "in the know."

drachman

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Quote from: clickerz on December 09, 2019, 06:01:14 AM

Quote from: barabarian1 on December 08, 2019, 05:07:02 AM

in my opinion bitcion is quite difficult to reach $ 10k by the end of this year. right now we are in December and bitcoin prices remain at $ 7k. but I did not give up hope
bitcoin is very volatile and can go up and down suddenly with large volumes. there is still hope for bitcoin to reach $ 10k by the end of this year. I'm sure bitcoin can pump again. I'll be patient and wait.

We cannot tell since the price in crypto is sometimes unpredictable. Sometimes you have a perfect analysis but there are some instances that results are beyond expectation. Since we are in the last months of the year I hope that it will slowly recover and hopefully next year we see the momentum.

The year is slowly coming to an end and we are still very close to 7000 so it doesn't seem likely that we are going to reach 10000 by the end of this year, however I agree with you when you say that anything can happen with bitcoin, we cannot really discard that during the last days of the year we see a huge pump that will allow bitcoin to reach those prices, in fact several weeks ago the price of bitcoin moved by 3000 dollars in just 24 hours and we cannot discard that could happen again.

clickerz

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Quote from: barabarian1 on December 08, 2019, 05:07:02 AM

in my opinion bitcion is quite difficult to reach $ 10k by the end of this year. right now we are in December and bitcoin prices remain at $ 7k. but I did not give up hope
bitcoin is very volatile and can go up and down suddenly with large volumes. there is still hope for bitcoin to reach $ 10k by the end of this year. I'm sure bitcoin can pump again. I'll be patient and wait.

We cannot tell since the price in crypto is sometimes unpredictable. Sometimes you have a perfect analysis but there are some instances that results are beyond expectation. Since we are in the last months of the year I hope that it will slowly recover and hopefully next year we see the momentum.

dodgrad

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Quote from: barabarian1 on December 08, 2019, 05:07:02 AM

in my opinion bitcion is quite difficult to reach $ 10k by the end of this year. right now we are in December and bitcoin prices remain at $ 7k. but I did not give up hope
bitcoin is very volatile and can go up and down suddenly with large volumes. there is still hope for bitcoin to reach $ 10k by the end of this year. I'm sure bitcoin can pump again. I'll be patient and wait.

There is no chance that the price will reach $10k by the end of the year. December is the month in which investors take their eyes off the charts and take care of the family. I think that by the end of the year the price will not change, and the increases will start in January.

barabarian1

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in my opinion bitcion is quite difficult to reach $ 10k by the end of this year. right now we are in December and bitcoin prices remain at $ 7k. but I did not give up hope
bitcoin is very volatile and can go up and down suddenly with large volumes. there is still hope for bitcoin to reach $ 10k by the end of this year. I'm sure bitcoin can pump again. I'll be patient and wait.

drachman

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Quote from: gabmen on December 01, 2019, 12:36:58 AM

Well it's their problem. People should've learned from 2018 already. It's getting yourself too hyped over btc's movement at a certain point could be very costly in the short run. It seems that the 4th quarter of the year always has a surprise for us. We just don't know if it's a good or a bad one. I don't doubt that 10k can be achieved. We just don't know when and what would cause it. It could be caused by a sudden event or we can gradually get there in time. I'd prefer the latter.

People like that never really learn because what happens to them is that after they lose their money by investing in bitcoin they decide that they want to get the money that they have lost immediately and they invest in altcoins, and as you may guess instead of recovering the money that they have lost they lose whatever they had left and instead of admitting that they made a mistake it is way easier to blame the market for what happened to them never learning their lesson in this process.

Ayiranorea

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Quote from: kapalmabur on December 02, 2019, 04:50:18 AM

Quote from: gabmen on December 01, 2019, 12:36:58 AM

Quote from: drachman on November 30, 2019, 11:32:55 PM

Quote from: dunfida on November 26, 2019, 07:03:15 PM

Quote from: drachman on November 25, 2019, 07:57:45 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 18, 2019, 03:10:43 AM

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

And it seems we got a surprise but it was not what we were expecting, instead of the price going up as people have been speculating for weeks the price has been going down in a dramatic fashion during the last days, and today was especially a surprising day because the price was below 7000 for several hours and then we saw a recovery of the price, I do really hope that the price doesn't go below that but if it does we could be seeing a terrible end of the year for all of those holding bitcoin.

Playing its price on 6k range isnt a terrible year for those who hold some btc into their stashes.As long you dont go for short term then you wouldnt really mind too much on your port.
Its just been common to have these kind of movement as always here on crypto space.There would be dumps then recovery or even a shoot up in price then later on a certain correction happen
then going sideways for long time then suddenly moves either ups and downs.As a supporter you should really be ready and prepared into such situation.

If you are talking about the holders that have been in possession of their coins for years then you are right a price of 6000 is not really a problem for them, but we must recognize that they are an exception, I'm pretty sure that many people that are holding bitcoin today bought it when the price was above 10000 believing that we will see another all time high only to be disappointed once again, so holders like that are in trouble and if they begin to sell because of the panic then the price could crash.

Well it's their problem. People should've learned from 2018 already. It's getting yourself too hyped over btc's movement at a certain point could be very costly in the short run. It seems that the 4th quarter of the year always has a surprise for us. We just don't know if it's a good or a bad one. I don't doubt that 10k can be achieved. We just don't know when and what would cause it. It could be caused by a sudden event or we can gradually get there in time. I'd prefer the latter.

buy when prices under support are good for long-term use, you know the history of bitcoin performance has increased year by year, even though there have been a number of bad years, but bitcoin can still be long-term if you understand, then if you follow HYPE or FOMO do it so that you do not follow it is very risky

When we consider about the market support it is good to buy when the price is much low. This is really possible when the trend is bearish. By the time very few believe it to be a good time to invest while majority get into the panic state and feels of missing the opportunity later. Market always has its risk, it is us who need to act right at the right time.

kapalmabur

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Quote from: gabmen on December 01, 2019, 12:36:58 AM

Quote from: drachman on November 30, 2019, 11:32:55 PM

Quote from: dunfida on November 26, 2019, 07:03:15 PM

Quote from: drachman on November 25, 2019, 07:57:45 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 18, 2019, 03:10:43 AM

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

And it seems we got a surprise but it was not what we were expecting, instead of the price going up as people have been speculating for weeks the price has been going down in a dramatic fashion during the last days, and today was especially a surprising day because the price was below 7000 for several hours and then we saw a recovery of the price, I do really hope that the price doesn't go below that but if it does we could be seeing a terrible end of the year for all of those holding bitcoin.

Playing its price on 6k range isnt a terrible year for those who hold some btc into their stashes.As long you dont go for short term then you wouldnt really mind too much on your port.
Its just been common to have these kind of movement as always here on crypto space.There would be dumps then recovery or even a shoot up in price then later on a certain correction happen
then going sideways for long time then suddenly moves either ups and downs.As a supporter you should really be ready and prepared into such situation.

If you are talking about the holders that have been in possession of their coins for years then you are right a price of 6000 is not really a problem for them, but we must recognize that they are an exception, I'm pretty sure that many people that are holding bitcoin today bought it when the price was above 10000 believing that we will see another all time high only to be disappointed once again, so holders like that are in trouble and if they begin to sell because of the panic then the price could crash.

Well it's their problem. People should've learned from 2018 already. It's getting yourself too hyped over btc's movement at a certain point could be very costly in the short run. It seems that the 4th quarter of the year always has a surprise for us. We just don't know if it's a good or a bad one. I don't doubt that 10k can be achieved. We just don't know when and what would cause it. It could be caused by a sudden event or we can gradually get there in time. I'd prefer the latter.

buy when prices under support are good for long-term use, you know the history of bitcoin performance has increased year by year, even though there have been a number of bad years, but bitcoin can still be long-term if you understand, then if you follow HYPE or FOMO do it so that you do not follow it is very risky

gabmen

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Quote from: drachman on November 30, 2019, 11:32:55 PM

Quote from: dunfida on November 26, 2019, 07:03:15 PM

Quote from: drachman on November 25, 2019, 07:57:45 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 18, 2019, 03:10:43 AM

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

And it seems we got a surprise but it was not what we were expecting, instead of the price going up as people have been speculating for weeks the price has been going down in a dramatic fashion during the last days, and today was especially a surprising day because the price was below 7000 for several hours and then we saw a recovery of the price, I do really hope that the price doesn't go below that but if it does we could be seeing a terrible end of the year for all of those holding bitcoin.

Playing its price on 6k range isnt a terrible year for those who hold some btc into their stashes.As long you dont go for short term then you wouldnt really mind too much on your port.
Its just been common to have these kind of movement as always here on crypto space.There would be dumps then recovery or even a shoot up in price then later on a certain correction happen
then going sideways for long time then suddenly moves either ups and downs.As a supporter you should really be ready and prepared into such situation.

If you are talking about the holders that have been in possession of their coins for years then you are right a price of 6000 is not really a problem for them, but we must recognize that they are an exception, I'm pretty sure that many people that are holding bitcoin today bought it when the price was above 10000 believing that we will see another all time high only to be disappointed once again, so holders like that are in trouble and if they begin to sell because of the panic then the price could crash.

Well it's their problem. People should've learned from 2018 already. It's getting yourself too hyped over btc's movement at a certain point could be very costly in the short run. It seems that the 4th quarter of the year always has a surprise for us. We just don't know if it's a good or a bad one. I don't doubt that 10k can be achieved. We just don't know when and what would cause it. It could be caused by a sudden event or we can gradually get there in time. I'd prefer the latter.

drachman

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Quote from: dunfida on November 26, 2019, 07:03:15 PM

Quote from: drachman on November 25, 2019, 07:57:45 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 18, 2019, 03:10:43 AM

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

And it seems we got a surprise but it was not what we were expecting, instead of the price going up as people have been speculating for weeks the price has been going down in a dramatic fashion during the last days, and today was especially a surprising day because the price was below 7000 for several hours and then we saw a recovery of the price, I do really hope that the price doesn't go below that but if it does we could be seeing a terrible end of the year for all of those holding bitcoin.

Playing its price on 6k range isnt a terrible year for those who hold some btc into their stashes.As long you dont go for short term then you wouldnt really mind too much on your port.
Its just been common to have these kind of movement as always here on crypto space.There would be dumps then recovery or even a shoot up in price then later on a certain correction happen
then going sideways for long time then suddenly moves either ups and downs.As a supporter you should really be ready and prepared into such situation.

If you are talking about the holders that have been in possession of their coins for years then you are right a price of 6000 is not really a problem for them, but we must recognize that they are an exception, I'm pretty sure that many people that are holding bitcoin today bought it when the price was above 10000 believing that we will see another all time high only to be disappointed once again, so holders like that are in trouble and if they begin to sell because of the panic then the price could crash.

dunfida

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Quote from: drachman on November 25, 2019, 07:57:45 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 18, 2019, 03:10:43 AM

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

And it seems we got a surprise but it was not what we were expecting, instead of the price going up as people have been speculating for weeks the price has been going down in a dramatic fashion during the last days, and today was especially a surprising day because the price was below 7000 for several hours and then we saw a recovery of the price, I do really hope that the price doesn't go below that but if it does we could be seeing a terrible end of the year for all of those holding bitcoin.

Playing its price on 6k range isnt a terrible year for those who hold some btc into their stashes.As long you dont go for short term then you wouldnt really mind too much on your port.
Its just been common to have these kind of movement as always here on crypto space.There would be dumps then recovery or even a shoot up in price then later on a certain correction happen
then going sideways for long time then suddenly moves either ups and downs.As a supporter you should really be ready and prepared into such situation.

drachman

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Quote from: piebeyb on November 18, 2019, 03:10:43 AM

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

And it seems we got a surprise but it was not what we were expecting, instead of the price going up as people have been speculating for weeks the price has been going down in a dramatic fashion during the last days, and today was especially a surprising day because the price was below 7000 for several hours and then we saw a recovery of the price, I do really hope that the price doesn't go below that but if it does we could be seeing a terrible end of the year for all of those holding bitcoin.

daarul50

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Quote from: magneto on November 17, 2019, 02:08:42 AM

Well, that was a bull trap.

I don't know why there was so much resistance at $10k, but for whatever reason, the resistance is certainly and undeniably there. I think that prices should head lower now given that we're likely going to retest support at $8k once again with a lack of bullish momentum.

That's not to say that people should all of a sudden start panicking or whatnot. They should absolutely not. With the halving coming un and the improved fundamentals, there is really nothing to worry about honestly.

pretty simple actually , the last bull run was stopped at around $10 k .

then people start to draw a conclusion that $10k should be a reasonable resistance point , this is a common point of view . everyone will have the same thought about this and guess what will happened if someone find out that this is a glitch.
a glitch that lead to an unexpected move , the predictions that made by everyone else turned wrong , this has been happened in 2018 right?

i don't expect this to happen , but let's anticipate it coming through.

piebeyb

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Quote from: Wexlike on November 18, 2019, 04:03:34 AM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 18, 2019, 03:10:43 AM

*skip*
contrary to your thoughts I only look at the current chart, reminds me of the 2015 charts, where a year before halving in 2016 looks stable, right now we're also in before halving 2020 later, so I let them play with the current prices and do a lot of drama, it's cool if you still want to add a little supply

Quote from: rdbase on November 14, 2019, 05:20:54 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 14, 2019, 01:39:37 AM

Aren't we headed towards getting a 10k (or maybe higher) shot again?

we are all not heading but waiting in front of our monitor staring at the charts, I know the price of bitcoin will not play below $ 6k anymore because there is full of buying support, so we are all currently just waiting, predicting, hoping, the price of bitcoin will continue to be stable like this if it continues to play in 7500 - 9500 until early 2020

everyone's hope right now is when the price of bitcoin is able to go above $ 10,500 at the end of this December, it will probably continue to rise higher, oh yes not every year the price of bitcoin rises Grin

This is the price where everyone is hoping it will be at so near to the end of the year and usually with holidays where people are spending on friends and family it is the best time to be optimistic about the price reaching above $10,500.
It also helps with those people wanting to send money overseas across different countries to their families and having the cryptocurrency the least expensive and easiest way to do this also seems like the best time of year for it to reach its goal above and beyond where it lies as of now.

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

Mhhhh you might be very correct with the "calm period" before halving. But sorry to disappoint you, not giving anything to the supply circulation back. Tongue

If there would be again a pump in advance of the halving like in 2016. I'd say a pump to $16k and then down to $12k would be reasonable to expect?

history will not always be the same so be calm all in the process before bitcoin halving, I don't know when bitcoin gave another surprise as before since bitcoin traveled from under $ 4k to almost touching $ 14k on a trip in february to last june, so whatever the analysis I really appreciate you and do not force you to believe in me let alone disappoint me, I hope your analysis is right Wink

Wexlike

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Quote from: piebeyb on November 18, 2019, 03:10:43 AM

*skip*
contrary to your thoughts I only look at the current chart, reminds me of the 2015 charts, where a year before halving in 2016 looks stable, right now we're also in before halving 2020 later, so I let them play with the current prices and do a lot of drama, it's cool if you still want to add a little supply

Quote from: rdbase on November 14, 2019, 05:20:54 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 14, 2019, 01:39:37 AM

Aren't we headed towards getting a 10k (or maybe higher) shot again?

we are all not heading but waiting in front of our monitor staring at the charts, I know the price of bitcoin will not play below $ 6k anymore because there is full of buying support, so we are all currently just waiting, predicting, hoping, the price of bitcoin will continue to be stable like this if it continues to play in 7500 - 9500 until early 2020

everyone's hope right now is when the price of bitcoin is able to go above $ 10,500 at the end of this December, it will probably continue to rise higher, oh yes not every year the price of bitcoin rises Grin

This is the price where everyone is hoping it will be at so near to the end of the year and usually with holidays where people are spending on friends and family it is the best time to be optimistic about the price reaching above $10,500.
It also helps with those people wanting to send money overseas across different countries to their families and having the cryptocurrency the least expensive and easiest way to do this also seems like the best time of year for it to reach its goal above and beyond where it lies as of now.

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

Mhhhh you might be very correct with the "calm period" before halving. But sorry to disappoint you, not giving anything to the supply circulation back. Tongue

If there would be again a pump in advance of the halving like in 2016. I'd say a pump to $16k and then down to $12k would be reasonable to expect?

piebeyb

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Quote from: Wexlike on November 14, 2019, 03:51:00 AM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 14, 2019, 01:39:37 AM

we are all not heading but waiting in front of our monitor staring at the charts, I know the price of bitcoin will not play below $ 6k anymore because there is full of buying support, so we are all currently just waiting, predicting, hoping, the price of bitcoin will continue to be stable like this if it continues to play in 7500 - 9500 until early 2020

everyone's hope right now is when the price of bitcoin is able to go above $ 10,500 at the end of this December, it will probably continue to rise higher, oh yes not every year the price of bitcoin rises Grin

Current sentiment, price movement etc reminds me quite a bit same time last year, or more precisely November 2018. Obviously we know what happened soon after, although it seems almost too obvious, that it is going to repeat last year?

In numbers, that would be ~50% retracement from here, so somewhere ~<$5000, followed by halving fueled upward movement through 1H of 2020, slightly >4x growth, which would place us near ATH by June. Although halving events so far has seen significant correction before the actual event, so...?

I suppose i'll just hold (and add slightly perhaps), no idea really what the price does.

contrary to your thoughts I only look at the current chart, reminds me of the 2015 charts, where a year before halving in 2016 looks stable, right now we're also in before halving 2020 later, so I let them play with the current prices and do a lot of drama, it's cool if you still want to add a little supply

Quote from: rdbase on November 14, 2019, 05:20:54 PM

Quote from: piebeyb on November 14, 2019, 01:39:37 AM

Aren't we headed towards getting a 10k (or maybe higher) shot again?

we are all not heading but waiting in front of our monitor staring at the charts, I know the price of bitcoin will not play below $ 6k anymore because there is full of buying support, so we are all currently just waiting, predicting, hoping, the price of bitcoin will continue to be stable like this if it continues to play in 7500 - 9500 until early 2020

everyone's hope right now is when the price of bitcoin is able to go above $ 10,500 at the end of this December, it will probably continue to rise higher, oh yes not every year the price of bitcoin rises Grin

This is the price where everyone is hoping it will be at so near to the end of the year and usually with holidays where people are spending on friends and family it is the best time to be optimistic about the price reaching above $10,500.
It also helps with those people wanting to send money overseas across different countries to their families and having the cryptocurrency the least expensive and easiest way to do this also seems like the best time of year for it to reach its goal above and beyond where it lies as of now.

bitcoin always has a surprise at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year, if you don't see it at the end of this year at least look at the beginning of next year, if you see that surprise, I'm ready to accept merit from anyone Grin

EdenHazard

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Quote from: El duderino_ on November 12, 2019, 05:54:52 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on November 08, 2019, 01:48:00 AM

everything on the charts point to a big bull run starting with a soon-ish breakout. and the fundamentals are there too, there is lots of good news regarding bitcoin adoption these days on top of all that which should have started this breakout but for some reason it seems like the same range is being forced to stay even though the range is squeezed more into a compacted one each time it is tested.

I do agree there are a lot of very positive news signals and fundamentals are good as it always have been, but last year when we had our DIP in the sub 4K we also had more positive news signals and though we did continue with decreasing of price, but nonetheless I do think cause of sentiment we had all over this year the price might go up instead of going down.... It might be kept under control for a few months till the halving dates kick in more and more.
What i'm most curious of is will we see serious action PRE halving, ON halving or few weeks/months AFTER halving... ??
Though I do cheer good and positive news cause user count will keep increasing ant thats the most important of the whole BTC story, more and more different people will be owning some % of the total amount of available BTC

I would scared if then before the halving the bitcoin price continue to grow but falls after the halving.

Could this scenario happened? I think so in the short term like ... few months after bitcoin halving the price fall back to $4,000 but slowly recovering in the next year 2021 even skyrocketing to a new all time high doubled from the last all time high of $20,000 , $40,000? That's my number.
Nothing can guarantee that bitcoin price would go up unstoppable right after the halving right?

Topic: Aren't we headed towards getting a 10k (or maybe higher) shot again? (Read 881 times)