Argentina to Pressure Citizens on Declaring Their Crypto - page 2.

pakhitheboss

hero member

Activity: 2100

Merit: 771

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: zasad@ on February 04, 2024, 10:28:39 AM

https://news.bitcoin.com/argentine-government-drops-crypto-legalizing-opportunity-from-omnibus-bill/
"The Argentine government, presided by Javier Milei, has resolved to drop the tax opportunities for crypto in the omnibus bill presented to Congress. The bill allowed taxpayers to declare the ownership of some previously undeclared assets, with crypto also included, reducing the payments and fees for this task.

Argentine Government Excludes Crypto Opportunities From Omnibus Bill
The Argentine government has withdrawn the opportunities for declaring ownership of certain assets, including crypto, from the omnibus bill presented to Congress this month. The bill, titled “Law of Bases and Starting Points for the Freedom of Argentines,” seeks to advance reforms in several areas, including getting legislative powers for President Javier Milei, who could take action directly in several fields, sidestepping Congress."

This guy Javier Milei is kind of weird, he is coming up with policies that should either destroy the country or save it. First, he tries to implement a policy in a country that is ranked 98th most corrupt nation then he takes only 20 days to take it back. He would have eventually realized that he was going after the rich or the elite. I doubt apart from the rich and elite there would be others investing in cryptocurrencies in that country. He would have also realized that these guys can bribe the officials to not investigate them if they do not declare their assets in crypto or stocks.

What he will now do is come up with a harsher policy to tax the rich and elites who are hiding their funds. That will mean he would need to implement a regulation around it. Seeking reforms using policies and regulations never works unless you handle corruption, he needs to first focus on that area of concern and then think about generating revenue through tax for his country

zasad@

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 4270

https://news.bitcoin.com/argentine-government-drops-crypto-legalizing-opportunity-from-omnibus-bill/
"The Argentine government, presided by Javier Milei, has resolved to drop the tax opportunities for crypto in the omnibus bill presented to Congress. The bill allowed taxpayers to declare the ownership of some previously undeclared assets, with crypto also included, reducing the payments and fees for this task.

Argentine Government Excludes Crypto Opportunities From Omnibus Bill
The Argentine government has withdrawn the opportunities for declaring ownership of certain assets, including crypto, from the omnibus bill presented to Congress this month. The bill, titled “Law of Bases and Starting Points for the Freedom of Argentines,” seeks to advance reforms in several areas, including getting legislative powers for President Javier Milei, who could take action directly in several fields, sidestepping Congress."

zasad@

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 4270

Quote from: uneng on January 22, 2023, 06:51:35 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 21, 2023, 03:03:26 PM

Argentina doesn't even have an army. They have a small number of soldiers to guard the president and state institutions, but they do not have the power to confiscate cryptocurrencies.

Every governments can seize cryptocurrencies if they wish, it's simple like creating the bill above which will "voluntarily" force citizens to declare their holdings and pay 1,5%-2,5% tax on profits to the state. Another bill can be passed raising taxes or seizing crypto from argentinians, under the sentence of paying fines or going to the jail. Although it's unlikely, because most governments don't want to pass this personal image to the rest of the world, it's possible.

The law cannot force citizens to declare their cryptocurrencies if the state does not have modern tools for tracking cryptocurrency transactions. On the scale of a country like Argentina, it's not $1 billion spent over 3-5 years to create such a system. I don't believe their budget can do it.

takuma sato

sr. member

Activity: 281

Merit: 408

Argentina is an hyperinflationary clusterfuck. If there is a place to never declare your Bitcoin is in places like Argentina. The speed at which your money loses value is insane in there. It's not as bad as in Venezuela but it's already so bad that it doesn't matter. Just save as much as possible because there is not an investment but a necessity. As more currencies experience this the value of Bitcoin will go up.

uneng

hero member

Activity: 2030

Merit: 777

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: zasad@ on January 21, 2023, 03:03:26 PM

Argentina doesn't even have an army. They have a small number of soldiers to guard the president and state institutions, but they do not have the power to confiscate cryptocurrencies.

Every governments can seize cryptocurrencies if they wish, it's simple like creating the bill above which will "voluntarily" force citizens to declare their holdings and pay 1,5%-2,5% tax on profits to the state. Another bill can be passed raising taxes or seizing crypto from argentinians, under the sentence of paying fines or going to the jail. Although it's unlikely, because most governments don't want to pass this personal image to the rest of the world, it's possible.

zasad@

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 4270

Quote from: bittraffic on January 18, 2023, 11:12:33 AM

Quote from: Poker Player on January 11, 2023, 10:19:44 PM

Quote from: avikz on January 11, 2023, 01:46:23 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

Yes, for Argentina I am surprised by the low rate. Now, once they control which people have cryptocurrencies, don't be surprised by later taxes or confiscation attempts.

I understand that there will be people who will declare them out of fear, but those who do not declare them and take the minimum precautions will not be caught. Now, they will have to be careful if they want to spend or convert to fiat in Argentina, but I imagine that more than one Argentine has cryptocurrencies as an insurance or a plan b, and they can emigrate with them.

This is very possible. There was a time in history when Gold are confiscated by the government so they can have funds. It's possible that they are just making crypto investors declare and then later on the assets are to be confiscated.

You can't just trust a government from the beginning had already contradicted its own words. This is not going to end well because just pressuring crypto holders might just make them hide what they hold and in that case, the government will outlaw crypto assets.

Argentina doesn't even have an army. They have a small number of soldiers to guard the president and state institutions, but they do not have the power to confiscate cryptocurrencies.
In my country, ordinary people do not declare their cryptocurrency because it is not safe. The more cryptocurrencies you declare, the more questions you will have from the tax authorities.

bittraffic

hero member

Activity: 2870

Merit: 612

Quote from: Poker Player on January 11, 2023, 10:19:44 PM

Quote from: avikz on January 11, 2023, 01:46:23 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

Yes, for Argentina I am surprised by the low rate. Now, once they control which people have cryptocurrencies, don't be surprised by later taxes or confiscation attempts.

I understand that there will be people who will declare them out of fear, but those who do not declare them and take the minimum precautions will not be caught. Now, they will have to be careful if they want to spend or convert to fiat in Argentina, but I imagine that more than one Argentine has cryptocurrencies as an insurance or a plan b, and they can emigrate with them.

This is very possible. There was a time in history when Gold are confiscated by the government so they can have funds. It's possible that they are just making crypto investors declare and then later on the assets are to be confiscated.

You can't just trust a government from the beginning had already contradicted its own words. This is not going to end well because just pressuring crypto holders might just make them hide what they hold and in that case, the government will outlaw crypto assets.

zasad@

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 4270

Quote from: virasog on January 16, 2023, 03:06:22 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

My first question: Is crypto legal in Argentina? Because without legalization, the government have no rights to ask people about their crypto holding.
Also did they mention that if you hide your crypto and later you found guilty of having crypto assets, what consequences will you face?

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

So, more the money you declare in voluntary forum, the lesser the tax you will have to give. However, there is some ambiguity in it. At which value of bitcoin / crypto the tax will be calculated? Suppose a person bought bitcoin at 50,000$ and now it's worth 20,000$, so he will pay tax according to the current price?

Argentina is considered a poor country, they do not have such a strong tax police as in the United States, so most crypto operations will continue to work in the shadow sector.
When the value of a cryptocurrency is difficult to determine due to the lack of documents, then you need to study the rules for filling out a declaration in order to declare assets at the right price and at the right time, if necessary.

rat03gopoh

hero member

Activity: 2002

Merit: 633

Your keys, your responsibility

The 1.5% to 2.5% tax rate isn't too pressing to sustain the assumption that this is just a "voluntary" statement on Argentines. But never know what the next government plans regarding taxes if all residents have declared their assets.

Quote from: virasog on January 16, 2023, 03:06:22 PM

At which value of bitcoin / crypto the tax will be calculated? Suppose a person bought bitcoin at 50,000$ and now it's worth 20,000$, so he will pay tax according to the current price?

If they follow the current Argentinian tax rules where crypto is still grouped under the property category in general, "The losses arising from transactions with digital currencies are considered ''special losses'' and cannot be offset against income from any other source."^[1]. So, what I understand, losses (after realized) won't be taxed.

1. https://cointext.com/cryptocurrency-tax-map/argentina/

pawel7777

legendary

Activity: 2408

Merit: 1555

Quote from: virasog on January 16, 2023, 03:06:22 PM

...
My first question: Is crypto legal in Argentina? Because without legalization, the government have no rights to ask people about their crypto holding.
...

Some of you guys have a distorted view of legality. For something to be "legal" it doesn't have to be declared legal - it's enough that it's not forbidden by law.
Holding bitcoins was never illegal in Argentina, therefore it cannot be "legalized"
legalisation - the action of making something that was previously illegal permissible by law.

Quote from: virasog on January 16, 2023, 03:06:22 PM

...At which value of bitcoin / crypto the tax will be calculated?...

You'd declare it at "Fair Value", i.e. at the market value on at the date the declaration was made.

The problem would be for some of the lesser popular shitcoins with tiny market caps where prices can differ significantly between different exchanges.

virasog

legendary

Activity: 2954

Merit: 1159

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

My first question: Is crypto legal in Argentina? Because without legalization, the government have no rights to ask people about their crypto holding.
Also did they mention that if you hide your crypto and later you found guilty of having crypto assets, what consequences will you face?

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

So, more the money you declare in voluntary forum, the lesser the tax you will have to give. However, there is some ambiguity in it. At which value of bitcoin / crypto the tax will be calculated? Suppose a person bought bitcoin at 50,000$ and now it's worth 20,000$, so he will pay tax according to the current price?

pawel7777

legendary

Activity: 2408

Merit: 1555

Quote from: avikz on January 11, 2023, 01:46:23 PM

...

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

That's not a silver lining at all. Those taxes are not the same. India's 30% is a tax on profit, as high as it is, you only pay that if you made a profit, so you can still enjoy the remaining 70%.
Argentina's tax is way worse, because it's a tax on holdings. Imagine buying BTC at say $60k (with the money you've already paid your income tax on), making 70% loss and than your government reaching for the 1%-2.5% (or even 10%) of whatever's left. And what's worse, it's not said whether it's some sort of one-time charge, so presumably it is a regular tax, which you'd be expected to pay every year. That's pretty sick.

If there's any silver lining - it's the fact that it's only payable by a "high earners" (however is that defined). Standard move to prevent people from raising up and revolt. Rich (but not super-wealthy or influential people) have always been considered a fair game for governments. They don't have enough voting power, they're not numerous enough to riot and general population don't like them too much.

eaLiTy

hero member

Activity: 2814

Merit: 911

Have Fun )@@( Stay Safe

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

~
Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

It is a fair tax rate at this moment unlike some stupid governments charging 30% and on top of that a 1% cess on every transaction. once you declare the assets and if they raise the tax tab then the government has all the declared asset details and hopefully it is not a trap Wink

.
You can expect these sort of news around the globe as the government are planning to regulate the space and they would not want to loose on their prized possession in the form of tax Grin

.

Ozero

full member

Activity: 2044

Merit: 180

Chainjoes.com

Quote from: avikz on January 11, 2023, 01:46:23 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

Interestingly, all cryptocurrencies held by citizens are subject to declaration, and this array will be taxed in the future. However, we have quite a few tokens in our wallets that have no value and are not traded anywhere. In any case, this may be at the time of filing the declaration. How will the tax be calculated and collected in this case?
But in general, a tax of 1.5 to 2.5 percent of their price is very good. In this case, it is better to pay it and not worry in the future.

zasad@

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 4270

Quote from: avikz on January 11, 2023, 01:46:23 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

I think these are false promises from the government. Argentina is not a rich country and taxes on cryptocurrencies will increase gradually, as happened in many countries. In Argentina, there is a large shadow market for cryptocurrencies, because there are 2 dollar rates: official and shadow.

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 2013

Quote from: avikz on January 11, 2023, 01:46:23 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

Yes, for Argentina I am surprised by the low rate. Now, once they control which people have cryptocurrencies, don't be surprised by later taxes or confiscation attempts.

I understand that there will be people who will declare them out of fear, but those who do not declare them and take the minimum precautions will not be caught. Now, they will have to be careful if they want to spend or convert to fiat in Argentina, but I imagine that more than one Argentine has cryptocurrencies as an insurance or a plan b, and they can emigrate with them.

avikz

legendary

Activity: 3024

Merit: 1496

Quote from: zasad@ on January 11, 2023, 10:29:47 AM

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

zasad@

legendary

Activity: 1736

Merit: 4270

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

Topic: Argentina to Pressure Citizens on Declaring Their Crypto - page 2. (Read 528 times)