Argentinian Government Ready to Take Advantage of Crypto Holder

wxa7115

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 11, 2022, 09:45:39 PM

My advice to the Latin American shit socialist regimes such as the one in Argentina - first take care of your own incompetence, and after that you can go after the cryptocurrency holders. Argentina is a country that has defaulted on its own debt repayment every 5 years or so. Given the digital nature of this asset, if the government tries too hard then the users will simply sell their assets in other jurisdictions and in the end the Argentine treasury will lose whatever little amount it was supposed to receive. Maybe they should take a lesson or two from the Indian government on how to regulate crypto.

That is never going to happen, when a government fails at the most basic of their functions instead of admitting their mistakes and accepting their responsibility they do what they always do, which is to blame someone else for the problem, even when they know that it is impossible that anyone else is responsible for what is happening, they will do so anyway.

However the people of Argentina have adapted to their reality so I have no doubts that many people will find ways to avoid paying those taxes in some way or form.

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My advice to the Latin American shit socialist regimes such as the one in Argentina - first take care of your own incompetence, and after that you can go after the cryptocurrency holders. Argentina is a country that has defaulted on its own debt repayment every 5 years or so. Given the digital nature of this asset, if the government tries too hard then the users will simply sell their assets in other jurisdictions and in the end the Argentine treasury will lose whatever little amount it was supposed to receive. Maybe they should take a lesson or two from the Indian government on how to regulate crypto.

wxa7115

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Quote from: ShowOff on May 05, 2022, 01:53:48 PM

Starting May 1, 2022, the Indonesian government through its ministerial regulation has set a tax for crypto traders that is levied directly on licensed exchanges whenever a trader makes a transaction "sell or swap". We have to pay 0.22% as tax every time we sell our crypto to fiat and that rule has been in effect since May 1 yesterday.

It is clear that the government will maximize every opportunity to profit from crypto traders so we have no way of evading taxes except never selling anything to fiat until recently. The smart move was that they didn't give us the freedom to self-report the amount of tax we had to pay, but they did issue a rule and require the exchange to do it for them. The same might happen in other countries especially if crypto trading and investing is legalized.

What happens with those tax laws is that the government always thinks that people are going to remain doing the same thing even after they pass a law like this, but people will instead adjust their behavior.

If exchanges will retain the taxes that you are supposed to pay automatically then people will begin to avoid centralized exchanges and move to their decentralized counterparts, will everyone do it? Of course not, but enough people will do it and this will reduce any income they expected to get from a law like that.

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Crptocurrencies trading is business, hence traders are expected to pay tax to the state. But taxing crytos would be very difficult because the beauty and uniqueness of crptocurrencies is decentralization and privacy. The government might not be able to get and keep accurate data of cryptocurrencies users because most of them choose to be anonymous. It would only be effective if non-custodial wallets are linked with the government tax database which is highly unlikely.

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When the government wants to benefit from the crypto holder, it is like the government to immediately legalize crypto, in my country the same thing happens, in some exchanges they state that every trading and withdrawal pieces must be deducted for state tax crypto for transactions.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on May 05, 2022, 11:25:35 AM

Something like this was to be expected, if you leave a fiat trail that connects you to bitcoin or altcoins and your identity was exposed at some point then sooner or later the government will come to your door and ask for what they think it belongs to them.

However they cannot deal with the P2P usage of bitcoin, if you do not leave a trail that leads back to you then they cannot possibly know that you are holding any bitcoin, so a system like this is never going to be perfect and many people will be able to avoid becoming part of such database if they want.

P2P is definitely the way to go if you want to stay anonymous fully. They will know that there is money in there but they wouldn't know where that money is going or coming from and when you do p2p to sell it back then they will not be able to follow you anymore, instead they will follow another person.

If they catch that person then that person gives your name is the only way so try to do it overseas so that you wouldn't really be known, sell to someone else in another nation and you will not be known, or try to give no information and get it in cash, that way even if the person is caught then they can't give you up since they do not know who you are.

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

Argentinian Tax Agency Supports Creation of Global Crypto Report System to Avoid Evasion

Quote

The AFIP, the Argentinian tax agency, is supporting the creation of a centralized system that serves as a registry for cryptocurrency holders. According to statements from its head, this would make it easier for tax agencies all over the world to curb evasion. The organization has already made use of financial information to collect taxes from Argentinian users with bank accounts abroad.

As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has. It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing. Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

You just have to hide your crypto from the government but it is nearly impossible unless you buy your crypto OTC or mine yourself using a small rig. Any other option would leave you unprotected against the government attacks. Once they know that you have crypto or you have a way to earn them, they'll want their cut. If you can manage to make your crypto anonymously then there is no reason for them to know about your holdings.

ShowOff

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Starting May 1, 2022, the Indonesian government through its ministerial regulation has set a tax for crypto traders that is levied directly on licensed exchanges whenever a trader makes a transaction "sell or swap". We have to pay 0.22% as tax every time we sell our crypto to fiat and that rule has been in effect since May 1 yesterday.

It is clear that the government will maximize every opportunity to profit from crypto traders so we have no way of evading taxes except never selling anything to fiat until recently. The smart move was that they didn't give us the freedom to self-report the amount of tax we had to pay, but they did issue a rule and require the exchange to do it for them. The same might happen in other countries especially if crypto trading and investing is legalized.

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Quote from: Lucius on May 01, 2022, 08:55:53 AM

It would be illogical for governments not to think about such things, it is in their interest to try to collect as many taxes as possible, but even more to control the flow of money. All this, of course, in order to prevent money laundering, terrorist financing, and various crimes

They've used this excuse before because it's palatable to most people that don't think past what the government tells them. Most people are willing to give up most of their liberties in the name of safety, so any false promises that the government produces will be done under the name of safety, including crypto regulation. Some European nations have invoked the same arguments citing terrorism as their reason for regulating crypto currency, when no such evidence exists of widespread crypto use amongst these people. They're just interested in the tax money.

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This is expected from governments, we have a very popular saying here that says: “The government milks the ant.” This means that the government strives to find taxes by means that no one would think of, in any case, if collecting taxes from holders of cryptocurrencies makes cryptocurrencies legal in the country, then this It is okay because in this case you will not commit a violation of the law if you own or trade in cryptocurrencies, I think this will be better for holders of cryptocurrencies in the long run.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Vaskiy on April 28, 2022, 06:31:33 PM

With technology anything is possible. So, creating the centralized directory on the people using/holding cryptocurrency is possible. However this isn't going to be perfect. There'll be loop holes and people make use of it. The major focus is to overcome the tax evasion creating a universal directory that can be used by the tax agencies all around the world. In my view, the data collections on the users will be made connecting to the bank accounts. So, then onwards people show interest in direct usage.

Something like this was to be expected, if you leave a fiat trail that connects you to bitcoin or altcoins and your identity was exposed at some point then sooner or later the government will come to your door and ask for what they think it belongs to them.

However they cannot deal with the P2P usage of bitcoin, if you do not leave a trail that leads back to you then they cannot possibly know that you are holding any bitcoin, so a system like this is never going to be perfect and many people will be able to avoid becoming part of such database if they want.

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Quote from: serjent05 on April 28, 2022, 05:53:59 PM

Argentinian Tax Agency As expected, The government will do the best they can to milk money from crypto holders. This is the first time I read about the government creating a centralized record of the registry of the crypto holders in order to get tax on whatever profit the crypto holder has.

I am not sure how much of the Argentinian population actually pays its taxes but if the government is cracking down on it, there must be another side to it. Of course this is not implemented yet just that it might come in reality in future.

Quote

It looks like this is the start of the crypto tax collection exploit of the government. I am sure after this one becomes successful, many countries will follow this example. So we better expect that in the near future our very own country will do such a thing.

This is why I said about the currently tax-paying population, in most countries which are considered less-developed, majority dont pay their taxes properly. If the government suspected that people are using cryptocurrency to evade taxes they will take strict action.

Currently Indian government imposed 30% tax on transactions. This move was probably done to hinder people from taking part in crypto.

Quote

Cryptocurrency blockchain may be decentralized but the government seems to have its way of breaking its shell.

This will be interesting to observe. In my assumption they will work with all the locally running exchanges to collect capital gains data and tax people on the basis of that against KYC.

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Quote from: AjithBtc on May 01, 2022, 05:16:12 PM

We can't blame the government. The major focus of any country is to generate money from its people. How is this possible, levy tax over the people. Atleast Argentinian government is making plans for the taxation. However this can't be made immediately, so the focus is good with short term changes. Already India have put 30% tax which is very big and limit people from using it.

Indeed we cannot blame the government for such actions since every citizen has the obligation to contribute towards its country and this is done by taxing us. Taxes is what fuels the country to run and improve. Although some countries do not see much improvement due to corruption, it still does help a bit. But main point is that as a citizen of our country we must not avoid our responsibility towards our country. And for the country, it would be best if the taxes imposed aren't too unreasonable as the 30% tax in India as what you have mentioned. This is just crossing the line.

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I don't know why the government do look for a way to make cryptocurrency centralized so they can have access to individual holders the same way they are doing to us with paper money. The prospective of Bitcoin is not for the centralized system of running transactions but to make it decentralized so we all can have our own privacy and to limit third party control to our crypto portfolios.

I am not surprised that different countries now are looking for strategies so crypto holders can always pay for taxes and their identity can be known. Argentina government want to support cryptocurrency but in another dimension that may affect the decentralized world.

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Quote from: serjent05 on May 02, 2022, 04:12:37 PM

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders. They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there. Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

Interesting news, and since I was interested in the exact type of service, I had to translate the article from Spanish and I found out some interesting details. Clients can buy cryptocurrencies for a minimum of only $ 0.50, but this is a custodial service in which the client cannot withdraw crypto to his wallet, but can only sell them to the bank. Another interesting thing is that the crypto assets are kept abroad by the company with which this bank has entered into an agreement (Lirium), and these funds are not covered by the regulations of the Central Bank of Argentina or any other domestic agency.

Interesting way of doing business, but if we take into account that the difference in price is 3%, and that there are certainly some service fees - with the fact that the bank has over 3 million clients and over 300 branches, if only 10% of clients decide on this type of investment , it will bring a good income to the bank.

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on April 28, 2022, 06:30:27 PM

they may not get the whole picture of the crypto holdings of their people, but at least they will be getting something from this market. unlike those countries who are totally banning the crypto market. we all know that crypto users can hide some of their transactions and you can just disclose your other txs if you will use centralised platforms. their government may be realising that they can get a hold of some of their crypto users but definitely, they know, they won't get the entire crypto market of their people.

This is mostly the advantage of not banning crypto in one country. Well, there's no reason to ban actually if they can make profits out from those crypto holders. And in fact, banning crypto won't be the people's loss because they can shift into another country where crypto is not banned. Now, it will be the government's loss if they still pursue banning crypto in the future.

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Quote from: serjent05 on May 02, 2022, 04:12:37 PM

Quote from: The Cryptovator on May 01, 2022, 04:01:28 PM

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders. They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there. Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

Quote

From today, May 2, the home banking of Banco Galicia, the largest private bank in Argentina, offers the option of buying bitcoin (BTC) and other cryptocurrencies to the company's customers.

[1] https://www.criptonoticias.com/negocios/banco-galicia-argentina-vende-bitcoin-criptomonedas-sitio-web/

We all know that any government wouldn't get a hold of the whole picture of crypto movements within their jurisdiction.
So yes, they will start from their local crypto exchanges legally registered under their Central Bank.
Because it is easy to get those numbers from centralized platforms.
And if some of their banks will offer crypto services, then, they will also have those info on hand.
Better take advantage of this crypto market rather than not get anything by banning its existence.

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Quote from: The Cryptovator on May 01, 2022, 04:01:28 PM

I am wondering how it would be a success? How they could trace which addresses have been used by which users? It's not possible in a decentralized ecosystem. Only centralized exchange or wallet would be traced and ask for taxes. Anyway could use non-custodial wallets to handle their crypto assets. During sale even they could do it in the black market in case government overcharge the tax.

I do not think that they can trace 100% of Argentinian crypto holders. They can only have access to centralized exchanges so I think they will start from there. Actually the following news the next day said that the largest private bank, Banco Galicia, started accepting cryptocurrency investment[1] and probably this had been announced to support the crypto-related activities of the Argentinian government.

Quote

From today, May 2, the home banking of Banco Galicia, the largest private bank in Argentina, offers the option of buying bitcoin (BTC) and other cryptocurrencies to the company's customers.

[1] https://www.criptonoticias.com/negocios/banco-galicia-argentina-vende-bitcoin-criptomonedas-sitio-web/

yawars20

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I think in some sense government is doing right thing.
Their is a clear resoan for them to take action because it could get huge threat for the economy of Argentina.
Am saying this because I know how money inflation can distroy a countries reputation and cost huge loss for normal people of the country.
I know the main concept of crypto itself is to be not control by any particular person or group and if government to centralisation, the meaning behind crypto will be loss. But we living in a real world where taking advantage of something or someone is like a common thing and no government want there mony and sources to go away and they all want to control what they can to get better results..

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It’s no surprise to me, the government would always want to take advantage in everything. If they decide to ban cryptocurrency, they know that it is their loss, because a lot of people would still continue to make use of cryptocurrency even after they have banned it.

Cryptocurrencies that are truly decentralized doesn’t need any approval from the government for people to be able to make use of it, that’s why in countries where it has been banned, they would still see people who make use of it. Only centralized exchanges can be banned and not the decentralized ones. And since the government is starting to know that now, so they have decided not to ban it but rather do as much as possible to make it a centralized system.

Topic: Argentinian Government Ready to Take Advantage of Crypto Holder (Read 367 times)