Topic: Arizona Supreme Court rules state can use 1864 law to ban nearly ALL abortions (Read 220 times)

Then you do not have any idea what you are talking about.  The anti abortion movement in congress today is made up exclusively of Republicans.  

It wasn't always that way.  In the 60s the movement was driven pretty much exclusively by Catholic Democrats.  California had the same law on abortion in the 60s that Arizona has today (only to save life of mother), which prompted the republican governor of California (Ronald Reagan)  to sign the first ever bill that legalized abortion.

Devout Catholic numbers began dropping fast in the 70s (and hasn't stopped since) and in the 80s the Republicans started viewing Evangelical Christian wackos as possible long term Republican voters so Reagan and the Republican party decided it would be the most beneficial politically to be anti abortion and they haven't switched sides since.

Reminds me of the anti vax movement.  Used to be mostly liberal home school your kid moms that knew everyones zodiac sign, but during the pandemic the center of the anti vax movement shifted to right wing conspiratards.  


PS - Trump isn't a Republican.  He doesn't make decisions based on political beliefs or even personal beliefs.  It's about whatever is best for Trump.

It wasn't that long ago Don Bill and Hillary were laughing it up at Trumps third wedding.  Such a happier time....sigh


Pretty impressive to have the Secratary of State and a former President at your wedding don't ya think?

Um, Trump has done all kinds of things in his personal life. Nobody, including Trump himself, cares about that.

As I said (several times) above, the "leave it to the states" thing has run out of gas for the Republicans. The only way abortion in the USA will be curtailed the way those wanting it to be made illegal want it curtailed is for there to be Federal laws against it. The current pending case against the abortion pill is just one example: all Trump would need to do is stop fighting that, and abortion will be effectively illegal across the country--and that's just one of many examples.

The the Federal government, per the constitution (and for obvious practical reasons), must get involved with interstate commerce, which means with allowing or disallowing abortion pills and/or people leaving their states to have an abortion.

No matter how desperately (some*) Republicans are trying to dodge this issue, there's simply no getting out of it. And in this context, Americans aren't going to believe the party who has spent 40 years calling the procedure "murder" when they say they don't want to make it illegal.

(* And it's notable that many Republican voices out there are not dodging this at all, and are clearly calling for 50 state bans because they actually mean what they say they mean when they say they are opposed to abortion).


LOL. The 1980s called and are asking for the GOP back . Today's Republican party has nothing to do with that anymore. Today the party is Trump, Trump and Trump.

States cannot dictate on women's bodies any more that they can dictate on a forced prescription of a brain surgery.

You are talking about costs? Then let me educate you on what happens when you ban abortion: twenty years ago Steve Levitt, a well known economist, looked at a bunch of data and put forward the idea that allowing abortion may have cause a decrease in criminality. The link between unwanted babies and adult criminals was established and obviously very criticized.

However Levitt was given the rare opportunity of checking his theory 20 years later ... so quite recently. And it perfectly matches the data: ban on abortion results in higher criminality when unwanted childs reach adult age.

https://journalistsresource.org/economics/abortion-crime-research-donohue-levitt/

So if you are against spending money, you should be thinking this through before taking a stance.

BTW, Trump is not going to "remove the deep state", he is going to "replace the deep state" with his deep Trumpstate:

https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/comment/2023/09/04/if-trump-returns-he-might-replace-thousands-of-federal-staff-with-his-supporters/


or what did you think?? That Trump is trying to get to power to then dismantle the machinery that makes that power effective?? You are very good at fooling yourselves into believing shit.

Then you do not have any idea what you are talking about.  I thought Trump was grabbing girls by the pussy and having his way with them.  If that's true, you really think he hasn't paid for his fair share of abortions in his life?  You really think that's something he's focused on?  Not to mention, if you know anything about Republicans you would know we support the states having their own rights.  It's the Democrats who are dead set on trying to force their mental illness on everyone federally by any means necessary.  All Republicans want is the constitution to be respected and laws upheld with less government spending.

If we are going to speak about legends and fantasies, I would rather speak of the Big Rock Candy Mountains, you know...

Oh, then here's my contribution: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiBgOK3sMeFAxX10wIHHSW5CyMQwqsBegQIERAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dfc6yPWv5nOc&usg=AOvVaw3CiEmv8_AbBhrSMCm-7WXt&opi=89978449


To me this makes more sense that simplifying the administration of a complex country full of politics and commercial interests calling it "deep state" a blabering a cheap 5 cent philosophy about "rights" that are created in the vacuum (dude, I would rather read St Thomas of Aquino, at least it properly though) and messiah that go "grabbing by them the Pussy" ^TM and paying hush money (and the Playboy stripper is not the only case at all).

But let's be honest, it is inflation what may influence this election and not stupid assertions by dumBAss, but now...well... we have women's rights into the equation. Congrats Republicans.

I think every woman has the right to make her own decision regarding child birth. Sure make a cut off on the age of gestation that abortion is permitted but you can’t make abortion illegal, it would be a disaster.

Trump didn't remove the "Deep State" in his first term, and instead expanded it. What makes you think he will remove it in his second term?

And why especially do you care about the abortion issue if all you really care about is the "Deep State"?

And abortion laws are very divisive. If you are for peace, why are you in favor of abortion laws?

Problem is those against the deep state aren't educated enough to remove the deep state.

And those that decide to educate themselves realize they were acting like an idiot and end up joining the deep state.

There's a reason they don't go by the shallow state.

I don't have problems like that with you. Why not? Because I DO know what you are for. And I understand why you don't really know what I am for. So, let me say it plainly.

I'm for peace. And being for peace means to be for anything that removes the Deep State. And since you seem to like the evil of the Deep State so much, it's easy to see what you are for.

Trump is the best general chance we have for peace and to remove the Deep State. The fact that Trump wants to leave it up to the individual States regarding their stance on abortion, shows that he wants to take that power from the Deep State in D.C.

But you don't like Trump for that very reason. You want to support the Deep State and their warmongering, murdering activities. And it seems that you want to do this "with every fiber of your being, right?"

How do we know that about you? Because you are so against Trump, the best chance we have to get rid of the warmongering and murdering that the present regime is doing right now.

So if Trump vowed to pass a law overriding the states, guaranteeing a woman's right to an abortion, you'd still support him with every fiber of your being as you demonstrate all of the time here, right?

If Trump vowed to start a war with some country (say Mexico for instance) if he were elected,  you'd still support him with every fiber of your being, right?

My problem with understanding what you are for is that it seems to change weekly at the same time Trump changes his own mind about things. The only constant I see in your views is that that they line up with whatever Trump says on a day to day basis.

I understand being in favor of Trump because you want certain policies enacted that he supports. But when Trump contradicts himself, y'all seem to just change your own mind at the suspiciously exact same moment.

You forgot the part where I said:


Or did you simply ignore it so that you might have something to blab about.

As for prioritizing Trump...

Trump is the best chance we have for world peace. Don't tell me you like the Biden Team warmongers who caused the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands if not millions. I know, I know. Being labeled as a warmonger, yourself, might not allow you to be popular in some arenas. You aren't the only one, of course. You simply side with them.


19 Retired Generals, Admirals File Supreme Court Brief Against Trump Immunity Bid

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https://www.zerohedge.com/political/19-retired-generals-admirals-file-supreme-court-brief-against-trump-immunity-bid
It comes as the U.S. Supreme Court is set to hear arguments on the former president's assertions that he should enjoy immunity from prosecution for activity that he carried out while he was president. The former president invoked that argument after he was accused by federal prosecutors of attempting to illegally overturn the 2020 election results.

The amicus brief's signatories include former CIA Director Michael Hayden, retired Admiral Thad Allen, retired Gen. George Casey, retired Gen. Charles Krulak, and more.

They claimed that granting President Trump immunity against criminal claims could lead to activity that put U.S. national security at risk.

"The notion of such immunity, both as a general matter, and also specifically in the context of the potential negation of election results, threatens to jeopardize our nation's security and international leadership," their brief stated. "Particularly in times like the present, when anti-democratic, authoritarian regimes are on the rise worldwide, such a threat is intolerable and dangerous."

The arguments submitted by President Trump will "risk jeopardizing America's standing as a guardian of democracy in the world and further feeding the spread of authoritarianism, thereby threatening the national security of the United States and democracies around the world," the group added.

The former secretary of Defense under President Trump, Mark Esper, was critical of their submission to the Supreme Court, arguing during a CNN interview that he "would prefer to see retired admirals and generals not get involved."

But President Trump's lawyers have contended that the president's office cannot function without immunity from the threat of prosecution because it could "incapacitate every future president with de facto blackmail and extortion while in office and condemn him to years of post-office trauma at the hands of political opponents," arguing that such a phenomenon is playing out right now after the former president was indicted multiple times last year.
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If you did a little research, you might be able to answer your own questions... maybe... of course, maybe not.

That is what I love about little dumBAss, he is probably the best marketing that democrats could have in every post that he makes. This utter confusion about nearly all aspects of life, diplomacy and science combined with a flat ignorance of facts that are freely substituted with 5 cent philosophy as required by his deranged mind. It is the perfect case study of Trump voter.

This is the type of people who are going to govern women's uterus in the name of they self-assigned moral superiority and light from a "superior being". This is the moment in which religious extremists are revealed for what they are: parasites of the democracy in which they do not really believe - why would they when they can just listen to their local sect evangelist leader instead of thinking?


The government... nah, the extremist churchgoers which are not a majority but are certainly needed by Trump. So women will be Trumped have no doubt - from the famous "grab them by the pussy", he has gone deeper to grab them by the uterus. Could anything else be expected from someone for whom women are like Kleenex?

If a blob of goo in a womans (or girls) vagina is controlled by the government how long will it take before the blob of goo in your skull is controlled by the government?

How is it a politicians job to decide what happens to a blob of goo in a teenagers vagina who was just raped by her uncle or the brain dead fetus with no chance of survival of a woman who wants to have children but may not be able to after being forced to give birth to a dead baby?

And why do the same politicians keep bringing up abortion at 9 months or "post birth" when that literally isn't a thing and even if it were, could be solved with a 8 month ban?

You know quite well that the US is not going to cancel Social Security, Medicare, income taxes, and basically the entire US government as it is today. You know quite well that Trump surely would never do that, and he will in fact expand the federal government's powers in ways that other presidents haven't, as he already did while he was in office before.

And yet you are effectively saying that abortion--the thing you keep calling "murder"--should be illegal (presumably, punishable as murder)--in all 50 states.

What this tells me is that what you really want is for Trump to win the election, and you are willing to say anything, on any given day, in order for that to happen.

In other words, once again, you seem willing to forgo everything you purport to believe in exchange for Trump being elected, which seems to be an end in itself for you.

So I'll ask this question of you once again, as I have several times here with no answer so far: what could Trump actually do in order for him not to get your vote in November? Is there any line he cannot cross?

That you can't answer this tells us the whole story: there is no answer. You prioritize Trump over all other values.

But you don't seem to understand what my exact views are. Part of my views are freedom, but stop the murder. If the people of a State want more murder in their State, it will be their choice, and that is good. Here's why:

Amendment X to the US Constitution:
There are only a few - really only two - things that the Federal Government has been authorized to do with the States, according to the Constitution. They lie in the realms of border control, and money and banking. Anything else is arbitrary, and falls under the Contract Clause... how the States contract with the Federal. But such contracting does not in any way affect the individual people, except when the individual people individually agree to it.

The point is that the States should rule in everything except what is strictly allowed in the Constitution. Making this to happen would take a lot of power away from the Deep State. So, Trump is right on when he talks about leaving it up to the States themselves.

You are making my point for me. If Trump wins in November, people with your exact views will be running the country. That's why it's likely abortion will be made illegal--or effectively so--in all 50 states if Trump wins.

If abortion murder is not outlawed effectively, how long will it take before ANY murder is legal? In Canada, they have legalized assisted suicide... euthanasia. But who follows all the assisted suicides to see when they are assisted in the right way... with full understanding of the person who is murdering himself? and who they are assisting to do their own murder?

The point is that people are executed by government right now, and government people get away with it. Do a simple search on "police brutality" to find thousands of sites that show how cops often kill people and get away with it, when they easily could have handled the situation some other way.

The reason why abortion is legal here and there is because it is a rather easy 'foot in the door' for government to murder anybody and get away with it. If someone wants to murder through abortion, forget the abortion part, suicide themselves, and go to the grave right along with the fetus they murdered at the same time.

The way I explain it to people is that if Trump is elected, there will be a 50/50 chance that abortion will be outlawed in all 50 states in 2025.

If you want to be sure abortion is legal in 2025, your only choice is voting Democrat.

As long as a state doesn't try and make AK47s illegal.

Point is moot though.  Trump doesn't give a shit if abortion is illegal or not.  His political instincts are correct that the more the election becomes about abortion, the worse republicans will do in november.  If he is elected though, then it's a totally different story.  He doesn't need people to vote for him anymore and it's a near certainty that Republicans will control the House and the Senate, so when the federal abortion ban hits his desk he will no longer need to convince pro choice republicans and women with husbands that have joined his cult to vote for him.  He can either risk having the crazy  vagina-goo obsessed evangelicals turn on him or pwn the libs....hmm what a tough choice for him.

"States decision" is a fallacy, they know the laws are likely to end in the supreme court, where Trump has made sure there is a conservative majority. Regarding the pills, the problem is that these will now be sold illegally, with all the trouble that it carries about getting false remedies, overpayment,... Some states are now moving to make it illegal to get the pill by mail or the like, so it will effectively create new "pill mafias".