Topic: [....] ART issue - The Mug #004 included - crowdfunding the project... - page 3. (Read 7106 times)

Except, of course, just simply telling us how do we know you're not trying to scam us?

Naw, that would be too easy right? You'd rather try (and fail) to make this about me.


No it's ok, I'll answer. You started the first one, in retaliation for a scam accusation I made against YOU, because you broke a contract you agreed to seven times. There were multiple witnesses, some of which posted on the thread. Unfortunately Maged felt you didn't deserve a scammer tag. But in retaliation, yes, you did post the first one. The others were all posted by trolls like puppet and nimda who had a history of trolling (and, in my threads specifically). Look around EskimoBob -- despite all those scam threads on me you and your friends started, I still don't have a scammer tag. Why is that, I wonder?

Now, how about you -- are you trying to scam us here? Just answer the question and stop being a dick, EskimoBob.


No, that's not a local rule, and the world deserves to know what kind of person you are. Consider it Karma.


Prove it. Introduce us to your friends. Show us some of their art. Do anything but try to insult me.

Or are you a fraud?


How about you tell people, quite simply, how they can believe you're not trying to scam them after all this crap you've written about other people?

Everyone go read the scam thread against EskimoBob and decide for yourselves, and consider deeply how EskimoBob has lied and obfuscated, and avoided answering a rather simple question whether or not he has any proof what he is doing is real.

I think I know what your decision will be.

EskimoBob, I'd just like to go on the record as saying that I do think that the Art studio is a fine idea, and quite possibly a fine investment. I've been part of a large warehouse art cooperative myself. (Depending on exactly what's produced, and ability to market production, such a business could be quite lucrative. We sold paintings & sculpture regularly, in the $5000-$30000 range)

I think you should take a look at a prospectus (for a real company trying to raise money legally) or two, and try to put forth one like that yourself. (Then, frankly, I wouldn't care so much if you're selling SEC-blessed securities, or w/e, I'd be interested to invest)

The suggestion above, of producing a Real Good to Sell To Investors (an Art ) while also providing them a membership in the Studio which entitles them to a share of the profits, you might have a more legally kosher plan than you do so far.

As I'm thinking about this, I'm considering businesses like the local health food cooperative. Those members share in the profits of the business. A cooperative art studio is a pretty common model, certainly here in California, and a cooperation would avoid securities laws AFAICT.

Finally, please, seek legal advice before you offer an investment to the public, considering everything that's happened recently. Regardless of what you think, or what I think, the law is the law, and is normally best interpreted by an expert. To do anything less is to do a potentially grave disservice to your investors.

I have nothing to add but that this is entertaining, carry on!

Usagi, I guess you leave me no other option.
For everyone else, I am sorry you have to read this unrelated post.

 ---  The last "fuck off" letter to the loser and a the troll also known as girl-man Usagi ----
Usagi, you funny little man... you are begging me to make this post about you and your fuck ups? Why? You got your own ass handed to you in your bull shit ridden forum threads countless times. Why are you begging for more and doing this here, in this thread, that has NOTHING to do with you or your long line of fuckup's.
 
For start, there are multiple threads demanding you get a scammer tag. LOL! I mean, wtf have you done to deserve this? (do not answer, we all know)
Is it your inability and utter incompetence in managing others peoples coin? Is it because your stupidity has caused massive losses to most of your "investors"?
So far, what have you actually achieved? What can you show us/me/yourself? Have you built anything useful? No, you have not built anything.  

Lets see now.
You managed to sink how many investment portfolios? How many imaginary companies have you managed to run in to the ground? Let me guess: All of them? WOW!
Wile making one stupid decision after another, screaming at your concerned investors in forum threads, you have managed to piss away over 7000 BTC? Or was it more than that? (the exact number is in one of your forum thread, it's embarrassingly large number in BTC and even bigger in USD )
What is left of your imaginary, make believe companies? One big NOTHING (OK, almost nothing)! (the exact number is in one of your forum thread)
 
On top of that usagi, you troll your own threads as and you keep making yourself look like a ass practically every time you type something. Close to every post you have made in the past weeks or so is some nonsense or you screaming at someone who point out you yet another mistake or lie. This is pathetic. No, its way beyond that.
 
On top of everything, you still accuse everyone else for your own stupid decisions.
Now you are whining here, trolling and whining and begging for attention. Sad sight indeed.

I recommend you take some time off. Figure out how to return your investors coin (btw, mine too) and then show up here with a fkn plan.
Until then, please usagi, STFU and go get your act together.

BTW usagi, you are not welcome here, in this thread. Consider this as a local rule (you invented it btw) and please, just go away.

Yes, I am trying to build something that can last for years to come and make lots of people happy and give them opportunity to learn something new. I can see how this angers you and makes you foam like a mad dog.
What did you build, you miserable little turd? Let me tell you what you have achieved: NOTHING! All you have done, is cause lot of misery and pointless forum posts.  

PS! Usagi, do not answer to any of my questions in this letter. Use some other thread for that.
Thank you and honestly, my neurotic troll, fuck off for good  

---  The End ----

For everyone else, I am sorry if you decided to read this.  

Lets get back to the real topic at hand and figure out, how we can make this work.

The fact is... based on the above you are lying about the nature of what you are doing, for the purpose of financial gain.

You sir, are a fraud.

I guess I am as stupid (idiot?) as every "issuer" in this forum including troll Usagi. Only difference is that all those nice issuers are advertising their stuff as a security. What makes this whining here even more absurd, is that has never bothered any of you
This is strange, or what?
 
Guruvan, if you think this art studio is a banana and this banana is a security, then have fun and believe what you want. I can not stop you
 
Guruvan, risk are written in few first posts.

Cheers

Or an idiot

For once, I agree with you usagi   EskimoBob, either you're just a fool, or you really don't get it. Assets-OTC isn't the one

1. Soliciting Investment for a business (you are)
2. Selling an unregistered security (are you really to stupid to figure this out?)
3. Lying about the nature of the security (you're lying when you say it's not a security!)
4. Failing to disclose any of the risks associated with the investment (You didn't disclose ANY risk!)
5. Failing to disclose the true nature of the art studio's business & sources of income (seriously)

EskimoBob, either you're trying to take advantage of investors, or you're just being fucking stupid if you fail to realize that, according to the SEC's definition of "security" you're selling securities in this art studio.

You either adamantly refuse to learn, or you understand and are lying and scamming.

I'm not necessarily against unregistered, or even illegally sold, securities, but I sure hope that the people selling them KNOW what the fuck they're doing, rather than what you're doing which is refusing to recognize the truth and failing to inform investors of the risks associated with your issue, especially the risks associated with selling securities illegally.

Red flag #4. EskimoBob has demonstrated his hypocrisy in this response quite well. Why doesn't he just address the issue that he said himself what he is doing is illegal? Does the OP even make sense considering what EskimoBob said in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118208.0?

Red flag #3. EskimoBob avoids talking about whether what he is doing is legal or not *(it's illegal) and instead tries to obfuscate the situation by attacking me for using the GLBSE. What I did or did not do is irrelevant (I stopped what I was doing because of my beliefs on the subject); the question here is if what EskimoBob is doing is illegal. And, it is. Why doesn't he just address the question? Or is he really doing this in full knowledge that he is breaking the law -- by his own words?
[/quote]

Red flag #2. Instead of simply answering my question, EskimoBob attacks me and tries to change the topic. I didn't accuse him of lying, I simply said he is a well-known liar (which is true). If EskimoBob had nothing to hide, he would answer my simple question: How do we know he's not just trying to scam us?

CharlesPonzi (LOL) Good point and this is what some growdfunding platforms use -  you buy good like a frame from a film. We are selling you a virtual token as a frame of film or as a frying pan
The problem is, how to handle the possible profit sharing. Easiest way is to say that there will be none...

So, lets not blow this thing out of proportions
I'll like to keep it as simple as possible. We are not selling you a security but a tokens. Those tokens show your support for this project.
I am not going to prance around here and call myself a CEO of blaa blaa balaa and tell you fairy tales about board members, deals crossing on my desk or even call it a company... like some of the angry pole here have done for long time

This is a simple project that needs your help to get off the ground. We can make it grow to something really nice.
If this is OK by you, please let me know via PM or IRC and I'll help you get few tokens.

Cheers and thank you for you support.

If really feel like you have to wast your and other forum members time with spewing bile, use PM.
   

If there is any sort of profit sharing it is a security.

Its not a security if people get ARTWORK

The question is if you get a piece of ART sent to you in return for supporting artists is that considered profit sharing ?

Hello usagi. Is that your retaliation for exposing you as one of the most incompetent managers? Sorry, truth hurts.

I am going to preserve this is because it's just too absurd to let him delete it. 
After, I read trough usagis incoherent rant and manage to find a question,  I'll try to answer as best as I can.


How many times do I need to ask you for the link to a article where I have lied. (Please post it to your made up scam thread)


How is "we" you are speaking for? Please read my previous answer.


Really usagi? I am informing project supporters that those are NOT securities. Tell me (not here, because your own invention, the local rule, applies to you) how did you present CPA, NYAN, BMF etc? LOL. 
 


For a English teacher your ability to read is amazingly weak. 

---

LOL. Trolling?
Usagi, pleas, get your facts straight and then try again.
You have completely failed to understand what was GLBSE's role. Again, this is a wrong thread for this. Lets talk about it somewhere else. Remember, "Local rule"

Didn't you just say you would have listed on the GLBSE had it not gone down?

So let me get this straight. You want us to believe that your business is legal simply because it's not listed on the GLBSE?

Be careful people. Moderators do not remove likely scams (see the warning above). And this meets all the requirements of a likely scam.

Think about it. EskimoBob is collecting money for a friend to use setting up an art studio. And he's promising to pay 3% a month?

I have a bridge in brooklyn I'd LOVE to sell you. This has scam written ALL over it.

Everyone read what EskimoBob just wrote: "This is simply a fraud".

When will people learn?

You're trying to sell securities, and what you are doing is illegal, by your own words. Just because you don't call it a "bond" or a "share" means nothing in the eyes of the law -- according to you.

This smells like a scam.

How do we know you're not just trying to scam us? You are well-known for lying and trolling on these forums, why should anyone help you?

I think here you got it wrong. I do not run assets-otc and business I run is not illegal. My business in NOT selling the tokens. 
BTW, GLBSE was a only a market. All the stuff sold there was not legal in USA - basically everything offered in this forum.     
Please, lets not bring GLBSE drama to this thread. Thank you.
I think we need to remove the promise to share profits and this will fix the problem. BTW, this "problem" will be eliminated soon by Jumpstart Our Business Startups Act

Um. Yeah. All you've done is replace the word security with some other word, and go on thinking that it's not a security. 

A judge isn't going to be fooled because you've changed a word.

You're selling a "token" that represents an interest in potential future profits derived from the efforts of others, and the investor is paying value for that token.

What I do with the virtual token is up to me? I use it to show you you owe me a share of the profits, as stated in your "contract"

Maybe now is a good time to find an attorney - or are you still in the "build an illegal business first, and get lawyers later" camp like our good buddy over @ GLBSE?

So, in essence what you've done is taken the existing (illegal under US securities law) model, scribble out the word "share" and write "token"?
I really don't think this would stand up in court. At all.
Best of luck.