ASIC miners - frustrating? | Bitcointalksearch.org

MrMochi

newbie

Activity: 49

Merit: 0

Quote from: cooler-persistence on June 04, 2013, 12:23:38 AM

Quote from: tinus42 on June 03, 2013, 06:02:19 PM

ASICminer shares are the way to go right now. You can buy 1/100th TAT.ASICMINER microshares right now for about $3.

See the Securities subforum: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0

Maybe buying your own miner will become profitable once more in the future but right now the prices are a bit steep.

If you want to buy a GPU miner I suggest mining altcoins such as Litecoin and GLDcoin. They can't be mined with ASICs.

How long does it take to get that all done for registration and purchasing?

Purchasing shares is very easy.
There's Bitfunder, Btct.co and Havelock investments.
Personally I use Bitfunder but it requires an extra account at WeExchange.
Take your time to choose.

bjwimer

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

I agree that it would be better for ROI to use the funds to purchase whatever coin tickles your fancy and hold on to it for a year instead of preordering a unit that may/maynot ever come. If the current individuals would have bought $1k worth of bitcoins last june instead of ordering the item they are just now shipping, their bitcoins would be worth over $5k now.

darkfriend77

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 265

i would be interested too in such shares ...

cooler-persistence

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: tinus42 on June 03, 2013, 06:02:19 PM

ASICminer shares are the way to go right now. You can buy 1/100th TAT.ASICMINER microshares right now for about $3.

See the Securities subforum: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0

Maybe buying your own miner will become profitable once more in the future but right now the prices are a bit steep.

If you want to buy a GPU miner I suggest mining altcoins such as Litecoin and GLDcoin. They can't be mined with ASICs.

How long does it take to get that all done for registration and purchasing?

Taihen

newbie

Activity: 8

Merit: 0

so is there a general consensus that current ASIC hardware cant possibly get ROI with the upcoming wave or ASIC machines to the masses?

ive known about bitcoin for a while but up until lately treated it as a hobby on the backburner running cpu mining on a old pc
ive just recently heard about ASICs and have more money than sense for now if i could get in on it ASAP(not on pre order)

what hardware can i get in hand now and if im willing to put in $5000-$10000 USD into it (that said, if 15000 made the a significant difference i might be convinced to go that high)
or have i completely missed the boat and even a high buy in wont help

J35st3r

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: webjoe on June 03, 2013, 08:11:01 PM

This is the state of Moore's law and high tech in general. In fact, just follow the trajectory of CPUs, they are still competing! It's just right now, ASICs are giant leaps in progression. I remember when upgrading from a 386 to a 486 to a Pentium was a big deal. These days, going from one Intel chip to another, the improvements aren't that obvious and only in certain extreme conditions (games, heavy CPU intensive processes, etc).

In short time, I'm sure Bitcoin Asics will follow the same asymptote as time progress.

Its more of a sigmoid, but to Moore's credit it looks like an exponential when its most noticable.

Moore's law is over, just a couple more doubling's and its done. But progress continues. Other "laws" come in to play, though eventually it must come to a steady state.

But bitcoin is psycology, not physics, and that's a far bigger game.

I'm getting all polemic. shows its well past my bedtime.

webjoe

member

Activity: 82

Merit: 10

Quote from: ?? on ??

The arms race will continue for a very long time.

This is the state of Moore's law and high tech in general. In fact, just follow the trajectory of CPUs, they are still competing! It's just right now, ASICs are giant leaps in progression. I remember when upgrading from a 386 to a 486 to a Pentium was a big deal. These days, going from one Intel chip to another, the improvements aren't that obvious and only in certain extreme conditions (games, heavy CPU intensive processes, etc).

In short time, I'm sure Bitcoin Asics will follow the same asymptote as time progress.

teek

hero member

Activity: 667

Merit: 500

we have asics that you can buy _right now_ at wtcr.ca. blades are in stock, usb's just sold out but will be back in stock within 1 week.

teek

ralphte

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

ASIC or bitcoin mining in general is more about how much bitcoins with be. Not how much they are now.

J35st3r

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: AsicBite on June 03, 2013, 07:03:44 PM

@J35st3r

Whats your opinion on investing eg $10K on ASIC when they are publicly available or buy BTC now for same amount?

Its pretty much the same deal. ROI on ASIC (bought with USD) will only profit if BTC appreciates sharply. There is certainly no return on ASIC bought with BTC. So either way you gamble on BTC futures.

But IMHO mining is sexier, so you'll want to buck the herd mentality and go for BTC purchase directly.

But what do I know, I'm just a newbie (or I was just 12 hours ago, at this rate I'll be a Full Member by Wednesday and a Hero by the end of the month). So do you trust me, (punk) ... Clint Eastwood for all you youngsters.

Anyway, bedtime. CUL8R!

AsicBite

newbie

Activity: 25

Merit: 0

@J35st3r

Whats your opinion on investing eg $10K on ASIC when they are publicly available or buy BTC now for same amount?

J35st3r

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: td services on June 03, 2013, 06:23:06 PM

My guess is that the ASIC chip manufacturers stalled the delivery while mining themselves up to the end of the bubble in mid April. It's pretty coincidental that deliveries started trickling started shortly after. It could be the ASIC sellers were doing this but more likely, the suppliers to the sellers.

The suppliers to to sellers are the silicon foundries, and given their long lead times (and debugging the chips, as BFL found to their cost), this is the bottleneck. Avalon/ASICMINER/BFL have to order chips months in advance so no wonder there is just a trickle of supply so far (and this also explains the need for pre-orders, you need the money in advance to pay for the masks and the foundries' production). But the pipeline is loaded and deliveries will ramp up as soon as the chips start to flow out. And the bare chip supply operates on a completely different model (cutting out the middle man), hence the predictions for difficulty of 100M or more by year's end.

Interesting times.

J35st3r

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: steelcutoatmeal on June 03, 2013, 06:13:02 PM

Major problem with solving such a situation. If all the manufacturers were to suddenly flood the market with their miners the difficulty would go crazy and the market would just implode from confusion. I respect BFL's method of sending off their early mining rigs to a variety of patrons. Also, once they do pick up production it would be good to steadily ship products rather than all at once to avoid market disintegration.

BFL are not in the driving seat here. Yes they are pulling in the orders (the fruit of aggressive marketing), but they just have not delivered. And look at their most recent ploy of selling their chips directly (at a tiny discount to Avalon's chips).

No, ASICMINER (and to a lesser extent Avalon) are the ones in charge here, and they do have that dilemma of flooding the market. But they are all slaves to the silicon foundries lead times (typically around 3 months, as evidenced by the chip order timescale). Plus the need to buy expensive mask sets (they limit the rate of production, and they do wear out, though that is probably not of any great concern here).

td services

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

black swan hunter

My guess is that the ASIC chip manufacturers stalled the delivery while mining themselves up to the end of the bubble in mid April. It's pretty coincidental that deliveries started trickling started shortly after. It could be the ASIC sellers were doing this but more likely, the suppliers to the sellers.

steelcutoatmeal

newbie

Activity: 16

Merit: 0

Major problem with solving such a situation. If all the manufacturers were to suddenly flood the market with their miners the difficulty would go crazy and the market would just implode from confusion. I respect BFL's method of sending off their early mining rigs to a variety of patrons. Also, once they do pick up production it would be good to steadily ship products rather than all at once to avoid market disintegration.

cp1

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Stop using branwallets

Just take that $5000 or whatever you were going to spend on an ASIC and buy coins.

tinus42

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

ASICminer shares are the way to go right now. You can buy 1/100th TAT.ASICMINER microshares right now for about $3.

See the Securities subforum: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0

Maybe buying your own miner will become profitable once more in the future but right now the prices are a bit steep.

If you want to buy a GPU miner I suggest mining altcoins such as Litecoin and GLDcoin. They can't be mined with ASICs.

J35st3r

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: kinger1331 on June 03, 2013, 05:36:28 PM

Do the USB miners from ASICMiner appeal to you? I am looking into those, small USB powered miners. 300MH on a USB? not bad, its worth it just on the basis of saving electricity costs, if you have to pay for that

Do the math on the ROI. Cost 2BTC, 300MH/s currently earns 0.01BTC/day, 200 days payback. BUT difficulty is increasing at 20% per two weeks. So your return halves every six weeks (42 days). So in the rest of eternity you will only mine the same amount as you mine in the first six weeks. It never pays for itself. (Figures approximated, do your own math with your own projection of difficulty).

Of course a positive ROI is not the only reason for mining, but I'll leave that for another post (silk road anyone?)

Thalum

newbie

Activity: 49

Merit: 0

I think that it's a bit crazy how far pre-orders had to be made and quite a lot is being asked by purchasers to front up the money before anything concrete has come out. That certainly seems to be a common thread in bitcoinlandia.

kinger1331

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

Do the USB miners from ASICMiner appeal to you? I am looking into those, small USB powered miners. 300MH on a USB? not bad, its worth it just on the basis of saving electricity costs, if you have to pay for that

Topic: ASIC miners - frustrating? (Read 1034 times)