Topic: "ASIC- Proof" - page 3. (Read 3244 times)

Wait, are we in the same thread?

Anyways, no you would have a chip-specific algorithm, this wouldn't magically make the i7 (a general computing device) suddenly become an ASIC.

This would possibly be a way to build social/economic ASIC-resistance into a coin, because it would be illegal to make it, and nearly impossible to compete with Intel on price.

Either way, I'm not exactly sure what you were reading when you wrote that. If you're not a native english speaker I apologize for possibly confusing grammar.

Strongly disagree. It is, at least in principle, possible to make an algorithm that an intel core i7 is the ideal chip for (that is, an intel core i7 IS the asic for this algorithm). You'd have to write the algorithm specifically for that task, but it is possible.

....."and say it's going to cost 5-7m (USD) to get your ASICs out of the FAB" .... Not true if the DEV was done in China.

That black box is not an ASIC, it's an ASIC Miner.

That means a miner filled with ASICS.

BOOM.

/thead.

According to this randomly googled website the market cap of Litecoin is currently approximately $50,475,892.

I haven't spoken to a Fabricator however let's just go with some numbers bantied around the forum and say it's going to cost 5-7m (USD) to get your ASICs out of the FAB.  This ignores the cost (a couple more million) of integrating them into a special purpose computing device to support the interfaces and off-chip requirements of the ASIC.

So let's just guesstimate that we're about 8m out of pocket and have a litecoin ASIC in our hands.

If anyone, I mean anyone finds out that it exists, miners and traders are going to dump Litecoin like a dead tree dropping leaves.

So now you're 8m out of pocket and practically the only person around to secure a dead block chain.  Meantime people are fleeing every alt that uses any variation of Scrypt as fast as they can.  Because let's face it, no one is going to do a scrypt ASIC at this point and then mount it in a device that can't handle variable n.

It would be self-destructive to create that machine right now.  Your only hope would be to mass produce and sell the first round cheap enough to attract the current large litecoin holders. And you'ld probably have to let them pay in Litecoin, while the majority of holders were in the middle of a massive dump.

If you got a few people to buy, you could all sit around and transfer coins between yourselves. If you got enough, you might be able to start a process of recovery,  But it wouldn't be the same, and you would get all the same "elitist" complaints and exodus of miners that bitcoin is  getting.

So, there's a description of "social" or "economic" ASIC-Resistance for you.  Absolutely nothing at all to do with the algorithm in use for the coin.

EDIT: totally unsubstantiated, but I guess if litecoin breaks ~200M - 250M USD market cap, we will see scrypt ASIC within months. For the same reason we have Litecoin - people sorry they missed the train the first time around.

Yes, it is.  the flower is a great touch.  A sign of someone taking pleasure in their work.

+1


Care any less to actually define your "real condition" notion of ASIC Resistance? I get that it's an economic situation, and fluid, though 

Not really.  Naked, actual, unlidded ASICs look like this.  Beautiful, no?

Thank you for missing the point completely, and making a completely irrelevant response.  It doesn't even qualify as reductio ad absurdum.  Here's your hat.

Maybe the pictures weren't enough.

Thank you for the lengthy dissertation of why, mathematically, the number of computations and memory transactions performed doing one sCrypt hash and one SHA256 hash are exactly the same and have comparably easy implementations on application specific integrated circuits.

Yeah I've pointed a couple of people at emunie. It looks like good stuff. And it looks like it can go a lot further, a lot more effectively than bitcoin.

I think there are many people here who haven't realized that it isn't just another satoshi-clone.

I"m just happy that the current generation of cryptos are abacus resistant.  Otherwise we would be doomed.

The only ASIC resistant crypto is one that doesn't use "mining" or hashing algorithms as a POW and minting.....which is currently only ours (or Ripple of course).

That said, you are indeed correct in your statement that any crypto that uses a hashcash based POW algo can and will indeed be ASIC broken when the return on investment is good enough.

I'm having this problem:



I just want to point out that there is no such thing as an "ASIC Proof" algorithm.

I also want to point out that there's no such thing as an "ASIC-Resistant" algorithm.

While I'm at it I'm going to go ahead and point out that THIS:



Is NOT an asic.

Now for those of you that are crapping yourselves right now and about to flip out and call me crazy, I'll clarify.

That black box is a special purpose computing device, that uses 1 or more ASICs to achieve it's goal.

These:


are ASICs.

Now anybody that wants to argue that there can be an ASIC-Proof algorithm that a general purpose processor such as an i7 can compute just needs to put on an idiot hat and go sit in the corner.  Yes, I know that's rude as hell but, c'mon.

ASIC Resistance is a real condition, but it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the encryption algorithm in use.

It's simply an economic situation, and it's fluid.

Litecoin (and other coins) are not ASIC-Resistant in any inherent fashion, and they're certainly not using "ASIC-Resistant Alogrithms".  They're just not currently worth the bother.

If you are backing a coin because you think it is "ASIC Resistant" you're going to learn that this is a self-defeating goal when that coin actually achieves any significant real world use.

I just wanted to make a separate thread for this because there are SO MANY THREADS that I want to post it in. I hope that someone out there feels helped by this explanation.

Whew, all right fit over - Carry on.