ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1145.

John (John K.)

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Quote from: Rodyland on May 02, 2013, 12:37:24 AM

Quote from: John (John K.) on May 02, 2013, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: Rodyland on May 02, 2013, 12:27:55 AM

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder. The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread. The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments. Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Sorry, wouldn't work. You overestimate the general public's willingness to learn. Also, most buyers I know do not have the coins on hand, and transfer them via Gox or otherwise after the auction.

That's a shame. We have this incredible technology in our hands, and the best we can do to manage the auction is a python script that scrapes the auction page looking for something that looks like a bid, combined with a lot of manual effort by your good self and others.

I would actually prefer your way to weed out problematic bidders, but I'll imagine that I would get more PM's on this. Heck, I had to answer a ton of newbie questions even though the auction is so simplified... Honestly many people would never read before asking. (proved during a group buy I escrowed too)

JaredR26

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Quote from: Rodyland on May 02, 2013, 12:37:24 AM

Quote from: John (John K.) on May 02, 2013, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: Rodyland on May 02, 2013, 12:27:55 AM

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder. The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread. The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments. Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Sorry, wouldn't work. You overestimate the general public's willingness to learn. Also, most buyers I know do not have the coins on hand, and transfer them via Gox or otherwise after the auction.

That's a shame. We have this incredible technology in our hands, and the best we can do to manage the auction is a python script that scrapes the auction page looking for something that looks like a bid, combined with a lot of manual effort by your good self and others.

Welcome to the wild west days again, when people in civilized areas had cars and electricity, and people in the wild west had semi-functional guns and a wagon. (Before the railroads were completed)

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: John (John K.) on May 02, 2013, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: Rodyland on May 02, 2013, 12:27:55 AM

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder. The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread. The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments. Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Sorry, wouldn't work. You overestimate the general public's willingness to learn. Also, most buyers I know do not have the coins on hand, and transfer them via Gox or otherwise after the auction.

That's a shame. We have this incredible technology in our hands, and the best we can do to manage the auction is a python script that scrapes the auction page looking for something that looks like a bid, combined with a lot of manual effort by your good self and others.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: louong on May 02, 2013, 12:33:05 AM

Quote from: Rodyland on May 02, 2013, 12:27:55 AM

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder. The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread. The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments. Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

I like this - basically a "cash up front" auction to weed out non-serious people.

Yes, cash up front. Plus, the slow nature of 'get escrow -> make payment -> post in thread' means last minute sniping is hard to do. Plus given that the auctioneers are involved in the placing of every bid, they can extend the auction by a couple of minutes for each escrow request?

John (John K.)

legendary

Activity: 1288

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Away on an extended break

Quote from: Rodyland on May 02, 2013, 12:27:55 AM

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder. The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread. The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments. Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Sorry, wouldn't work. You overestimate the general public's willingness to learn. Also, most buyers I know do not have the coins on hand, and transfer them via Gox or otherwise after the auction.

louong

member

Activity: 87

Merit: 10

Quote from: Rodyland on May 02, 2013, 12:27:55 AM

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder. The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread. The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments. Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

I like this - basically a "cash up front" auction to weed out non-serious people.

louong

member

Activity: 87

Merit: 10

Quote from: arklan on May 02, 2013, 12:19:07 AM

Quote from: John (John K.) on May 02, 2013, 12:12:03 AM

Quote from: louong on May 02, 2013, 12:07:39 AM

Not sure how realistic it is to auction all the USB sticks, maybe batches of 100 max each? You could make it a reverse auction, where ASICMINER will set an initial price (presumably high), and everyone who wants in on that price bids x# of units.

If all 100 are spoken for at that price, then an auction will start, with the bidding to start at the initial price, with a specified end date. This should weed out the period of initial low bids (see last ASICMINER auction where a lot of time and thread space was wasted for the bids between 9 to 30 BTC when the 30-50 BTC was what really mattered). At the end date and time, additional bids extend the auction by 5 minutes.

If all 100 are not sold at that initial price, then every hour/pre-determined time period, the price will drop by 0.5BTC, until there are enough unit bids to reach 100, at which point the auction ends, and the first 100 bids will pay the same price.

Seems feasible and a lot more easy. Grin

the concern then, for me anyway, is the whole "lots of 100" part. i am absolutely looking to get my hands on some of these usb miners, but there's no way i can afford ten, let alone 100. would we see those who win the 100 then reselling them for a higher price, and that would be the only way for small fries like me to get one?

Sorry, meant an auction of 100 USB miners where bidders can bid on any amount of them (as opposed to say 300 or however many total that ASICMINER have ready). Each auction can happen once a week or something to prevent oversaturation.

I don't think resale should be an issue if we set a high initial price and then either sell all 100 by going down in price until there is enough demand to sell all 100. Or if for some reason there is enough demand from bidders to take all 100 units at the initial price, start the auction from that price so it saves time and work for John K. (or whoever is handling the auction).

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Surely there has to be a way to use bitcoin itself, or the blockchain, to bid and avoid dummy bids?

http://www.bitescrow.org/

How about if to bid you need to get the auctioneer (one of several maybe) to set up an escrow transaction and send out a payment invite to the bidder. The bidder pays bitcoin to the escrow account, and then publishes the address and amount to the thread. The bid is deemed valid when the address hits the thread, and the bid amount can be verified by anyone.

If someone is outbid, the auctioneer sends them the other half of the escrow key.

For the winning bids, the escrow keys are sent to friedcat instead.

No dummy bids, no welching on payments. Anyone buying to flip needs to front the bitcoin first.

Newar

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Merit: 1001

https://gliph.me/hUF

Quote from: Franktank on May 01, 2013, 11:13:19 PM

Looking like 0.00735415/share this week

Confirmed 0.00735415

Newar

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https://gliph.me/hUF

Quote from: arklan on May 02, 2013, 12:19:07 AM

the concern then, for me anyway, is the whole "lots of 100" part. i am absolutely looking to get my hands on some of these usb miners, but there's no way i can afford ten, let alone 100. would we see those who win the 100 then reselling them for a higher price, and that would be the only way for small fries like me to get one?

I think they meant one auction per 100. Instead of one auction for 1000. Easier to keep track.

arklan

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Quote from: John (John K.) on May 02, 2013, 12:12:03 AM

Quote from: louong on May 02, 2013, 12:07:39 AM

Quote from: gmouse on May 01, 2013, 11:35:54 PM

The usb sticks are going to be a huge success, but we desperately need something better than bidding in the auction forum here to sell them; the last couple minutes of the last auction were a bit crazy, and many bidders got blocked out with the last second frenzy by the anti-spam settings for the forum.

Problem is, how to set this all up on a solid auction forum? We can at least have some vetting on the bidders to some extent when they take place on this forum, but as the volume of the auctions ramps up, I fear this will become an unmanageable mess.

Probably most bidders should know by now to turn off those settings when they want to bid. Or in the OP for the auction it should be stated as a suggestion.

Not sure how realistic it is to auction all the USB sticks, maybe batches of 100 max each? You could make it a reverse auction, where ASICMINER will set an initial price (presumably high), and everyone who wants in on that price bids x# of units.

If all 100 are spoken for at that price, then an auction will start, with the bidding to start at the initial price, with a specified end date. This should weed out the period of initial low bids (see last ASICMINER auction where a lot of time and thread space was wasted for the bids between 9 to 30 BTC when the 30-50 BTC was what really mattered). At the end date and time, additional bids extend the auction by 5 minutes.

If all 100 are not sold at that initial price, then every hour/pre-determined time period, the price will drop by 0.5BTC, until there are enough unit bids to reach 100, at which point the auction ends, and the first 100 bids will pay the same price.

Seems feasible and a lot more easy. Grin

the concern then, for me anyway, is the whole "lots of 100" part. i am absolutely looking to get my hands on some of these usb miners, but there's no way i can afford ten, let alone 100. would we see those who win the 100 then reselling them for a higher price, and that would be the only way for small fries like me to get one?

John (John K.)

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1227

Away on an extended break

Quote from: louong on May 02, 2013, 12:07:39 AM

Quote from: gmouse on May 01, 2013, 11:35:54 PM

The usb sticks are going to be a huge success, but we desperately need something better than bidding in the auction forum here to sell them; the last couple minutes of the last auction were a bit crazy, and many bidders got blocked out with the last second frenzy by the anti-spam settings for the forum.

Problem is, how to set this all up on a solid auction forum? We can at least have some vetting on the bidders to some extent when they take place on this forum, but as the volume of the auctions ramps up, I fear this will become an unmanageable mess.

Probably most bidders should know by now to turn off those settings when they want to bid. Or in the OP for the auction it should be stated as a suggestion.

Not sure how realistic it is to auction all the USB sticks, maybe batches of 100 max each? You could make it a reverse auction, where ASICMINER will set an initial price (presumably high), and everyone who wants in on that price bids x# of units.

If all 100 are spoken for at that price, then an auction will start, with the bidding to start at the initial price, with a specified end date. This should weed out the period of initial low bids (see last ASICMINER auction where a lot of time and thread space was wasted for the bids between 9 to 30 BTC when the 30-50 BTC was what really mattered). At the end date and time, additional bids extend the auction by 5 minutes.

If all 100 are not sold at that initial price, then every hour/pre-determined time period, the price will drop by 0.5BTC, until there are enough unit bids to reach 100, at which point the auction ends, and the first 100 bids will pay the same price.

Seems feasible and a lot more easy. Grin

John (John K.)

legendary

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Away on an extended break

Quote from: Luke-Jr on May 02, 2013, 12:06:31 AM

Quote from: gmouse on May 01, 2013, 11:35:54 PM

The usb sticks are going to be a huge success, but we desperately need something better than bidding in the auction forum here to sell them; the last couple minutes of the last auction were a bit crazy, and many bidders got blocked out with the last second frenzy by the anti-spam settings for the forum.

Problem is, how to set this all up on a solid auction forum? We can at least have some vetting on the bidders to some extent when they take place on this forum, but as the volume of the auctions ramps up, I fear this will become an unmanageable mess.

Aren't there already dedicated bitcoin auction sites?
Why not give each of them some quantity to auction off?
And for the next rounds, prefer the one(s) that sell at the highest prices...

How would you prevent shill/joy bidding then? I've seen auctions in bitmit destroyed by shill bids as it's easy to make an account to bid. In this forum, we have newbie restrictions. Undecided

gmouse

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Quote from: friedcat on May 01, 2013, 11:14:43 PM

Quote from: friedcat on May 01, 2013, 11:13:00 PM

2,000 Bitcoins have been reserved for the re-investment:

1. Deposits for the long-term pre-order of hard-to-get ICs.
2. Costs of mass production of Block Erupter USB sticks.

The projected rising to 15TH/s by tomorrow night is still on track.
The samples of the USB sticks are being tested.

That is approximately the amount of $USD as the IPO raised? So, this appears to be a substantial re-investment in the company. Dunno what those ICs might be, but let me know, and I will look under my bed to see if I have a few laying around!

John (John K.)

legendary

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Away on an extended break

Hmm... I'm not sure of how a Dutch auction for multiple goods would work. It would confuse some bidders too (heck, I've been getting PM's on how basic auctions work) Undecided

louong

member

Activity: 87

Merit: 10

Quote from: gmouse on May 01, 2013, 11:35:54 PM

The usb sticks are going to be a huge success, but we desperately need something better than bidding in the auction forum here to sell them; the last couple minutes of the last auction were a bit crazy, and many bidders got blocked out with the last second frenzy by the anti-spam settings for the forum.

Problem is, how to set this all up on a solid auction forum? We can at least have some vetting on the bidders to some extent when they take place on this forum, but as the volume of the auctions ramps up, I fear this will become an unmanageable mess.

Probably most bidders should know by now to turn off those settings when they want to bid. Or in the OP for the auction it should be stated as a suggestion.

Not sure how realistic it is to auction all the USB sticks, maybe batches of 100 max each? You could make it a reverse auction, where ASICMINER will set an initial price (presumably high), and everyone who wants in on that price bids x# of units.

If all 100 are spoken for at that price, then an auction will start, with the bidding to start at the initial price, with a specified end date. This should weed out the period of initial low bids (see last ASICMINER auction where a lot of time and thread space was wasted for the bids between 9 to 30 BTC when the 30-50 BTC was what really mattered). At the end date and time, additional bids extend the auction by 5 minutes.

If all 100 are not sold at that initial price, then every hour/pre-determined time period, the price will drop by 0.5BTC, until there are enough unit bids to reach 100, at which point the auction ends, and the first 100 bids will pay the same price.

Luke-Jr

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Activity: 2576

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Quote from: gmouse on May 01, 2013, 11:35:54 PM

The usb sticks are going to be a huge success, but we desperately need something better than bidding in the auction forum here to sell them; the last couple minutes of the last auction were a bit crazy, and many bidders got blocked out with the last second frenzy by the anti-spam settings for the forum.

Problem is, how to set this all up on a solid auction forum? We can at least have some vetting on the bidders to some extent when they take place on this forum, but as the volume of the auctions ramps up, I fear this will become an unmanageable mess.

Aren't there already dedicated bitcoin auction sites?
Why not give each of them some quantity to auction off?
And for the next rounds, prefer the one(s) that sell at the highest prices...

organofcorti

donator

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Poor impulse control.

Quote from: John (John K.) on May 01, 2013, 11:56:41 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 01, 2013, 11:53:34 PM

Quote from: John (John K.) on May 01, 2013, 11:51:02 PM

5 might be too long Wink

I think youre right. Otherwise everyone would wait 5 mins with the "last" bid and it would grow indefinitely. But 1 min might help. Though i dont know if its enough time to get around the trouble of not being allowed to post?

Hmm... There should be a guide at the OP to disable the warning where if someone posted first. 1 minute should be enough for those who has not done so anyway as the auction is already extended by 1 minutes.

Yeah, the secret ballot style auction might work too as I said above, but I sell prefer the auction extension style.More transparent.

If you don't want a sealed bid auction, how about a Dutch auction? Start high, and bids are fulfilled until the last item is sold. I reckon a Dutch auction would do well since you already have an indication of how well the ASICs will sell, and people are very keen not to miss out.

SebastianJu

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Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: John (John K.) on May 01, 2013, 11:56:41 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on May 01, 2013, 11:53:34 PM

Quote from: John (John K.) on May 01, 2013, 11:51:02 PM

5 might be too long Wink

I think youre right. Otherwise everyone would wait 5 mins with the "last" bid and it would grow indefinitely. But 1 min might help. Though i dont know if its enough time to get around the trouble of not being allowed to post?

Hmm... There should be a guide at the OP to disable the warning where if someone posted first. 1 minute should be enough for those who has not done so anyway as the auction is already extended by 1 minutes.

It was only this problem? I thought that shouldnt be a problem if there is a 1min window after a bid. I mean a poster isnt forced to read the new posts before he posts. So when a red line appears one could simply click on send again and most probably it will work.
I guess it only was a problem because everyone wanted to snipe at the last second and couldnt do it because the auction had a strict ending time, no floating one. I wonder how many btc were lost this way.

ineededausername

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bitcoin hundred-aire

Wow, you'd have to be an idiot to sell now Shocked

15 TH/s tomorrow... huge (>double!) dividends next week... and it's only going to get better!

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1145. (Read 3917568 times)