ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1246.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: wachtwoord on March 03, 2013, 10:19:36 AM

Trust me. there is a vast amount of better investments than 0.1 % short term bonds AAPL is holding. If this is truly what AAPL believes they are ignorant and shareholder unfriendly.

Thats the first step to not investing in Apple. Be proud of yourself, support your local startups.

wachtwoord

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Trust me. there is a vast amount of better investments than 0.1 % short term bonds AAPL is holding. If this is truly what AAPL believes they are ignorant and shareholder unfriendly.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: wachtwoord on March 03, 2013, 10:07:38 AM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 10:00:48 AM

Quote from: wachtwoord on March 03, 2013, 09:59:38 AM

If AAPL kan invest the money better, what the hell is it doing with 130 billion $ in cash and short term investments?

I think you didn't read what I wrote. Apple doesn't believe there is a good investment out there, thus is sitting on the cash instead. Its better to sit on it than burn it doing dumb shit.

I think you didn't read what I wrote. AAPL is sitting on the cash because they don't see other good investments and should start returning the cash to shareholders because they will be able to earn a better return on it than under AAPL's mattress. And alas AAPL has started a dividend last year. I'm not sure what portion of the cash is in non-us subsidiaries and therefore liable tax) but if I were a shareholder I'd prefer a large special dividend.

Except you're implying shareholders can find better investments. I think Apple might be actually correct in this, there aren't any better investments.

And yes, now that Steve Jobs is dead, Apple is slowly turning into yet another dying pointless tech company and has begun issuing dividends; although, arguably, Apple died the day people like Woz left Apple.

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Quote from: friedcat on March 01, 2013, 08:03:10 AM

Inhouse by us and our partners/employees/temps:
Cabling for the power supply (double to triple digit kW needs special modification of the cable system), Wiring solution, Heat dissipation solution, Subrack and rack assembly, Network and firmware/software solution, System managing.

So these are the points that takes some time. The hashrate is going up and down so probably you are taking one of the pcbs with asics out of the rack or take it away from mining often. What i wonder is why that is done. I mean they seem to mine already. So do you take it out to make them hash some percent more only? If thats the case wouldnt it be better to make a quick and maybe not perfect work to put all the pcbs into the rack first, let them mine altogether at a not perfect hashrate and THEN try to optimize it?

I mean when i think about you have all the asics, pcbs and so on and all the manpower... it looks to me like you only have to put the asics on the pcb, put it in the rack, start this pcb to mine and all goes well. That doesnt sound as so much work like you seem to do. Especially with the manpower you have. So what exactly is the workstep that is slowing down everything? That all depends on?

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 10:00:48 AM

Quote from: wachtwoord on March 03, 2013, 09:59:38 AM

If AAPL kan invest the money better, what the hell is it doing with 130 billion $ in cash and short term investments?

I think you didn't read what I wrote. Apple doesn't believe there is a good investment out there, thus is sitting on the cash instead. Its better to sit on it than burn it doing dumb shit.

Oh the irony...

wachtwoord

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 10:00:48 AM

Quote from: wachtwoord on March 03, 2013, 09:59:38 AM

If AAPL kan invest the money better, what the hell is it doing with 130 billion $ in cash and short term investments?

I think you didn't read what I wrote. Apple doesn't believe there is a good investment out there, thus is sitting on the cash instead. Its better to sit on it than burn it doing dumb shit.

I think you didn't read what I wrote. AAPL is sitting on the cash because they don't see other good investments and should start returning the cash to shareholders because they will be able to earn a better return on it than under AAPL's mattress. And alas AAPL has started a dividend last year. I'm not sure what portion of the cash is in non-us subsidiaries and therefore liable tax) but if I were a shareholder I'd prefer a large special dividend.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: wachtwoord on March 03, 2013, 09:59:38 AM

If AAPL kan invest the money better, what the hell is it doing with 130 billion $ in cash and short term investments?

I think you didn't read what I wrote. Apple doesn't believe there is a good investment out there, thus is sitting on the cash instead. Its better to sit on it than burn it doing dumb shit.

wachtwoord

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If AAPL kan invest the money better, what the hell is it doing with 130 billion $ in cash and short term investments?

DiabloD3

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Quote from: wachtwoord on March 03, 2013, 08:29:01 AM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 07:51:29 AM

Quote from: poly on March 03, 2013, 06:02:07 AM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 06:00:32 AM

Quote from: Monster Tent on March 03, 2013, 02:07:19 AM

Even though you get less dividends you still have a share of the company so any retained earnings invested in expansion adds value for shareholders.

Dividends arent the main game.

I agree with this. This is the first company in Bitcoin history where it could have never issued dividends, and we'd be buying it based on earnings reports and asset valuations. This is a pretty big deal, imo.

Yep, dividends are certainly nice but ASICMINER is a great investment even without it. Kinda like how Apple didn't initially issue dividends?

Steve Jobs never believed in dividends and thought investors who chased those were idiots, and didn't want idiots investing in his company. Most of the best businessmen in history believe(d) only idiots chased dividends as well, including Warren Buffet, although its uniquely Steve Jobs that only wanted smart people investing in his company.

Buffet likes stockholder friendly companies that use excessive cash flow to pay a dividend. If the company can invest it better than the shareholder (many companies think that, most just destroy value) they shouldn't pay dividends but instead invest the money, because this would bring maximum return for the shareholder. This is why BRK does not pay a dividend. Buffet think he can invest the money better than his shareholders (BRK is an (re)insurer/investment-firm conglomerate for crying out loud, although imo they should probably let others lead the reinsurance business).

TLDR: Dividends are generally nice.

It depends on the company. I think Apple CAN reinvest the money better, for example. Case in point, they have a lot of cash sitting around earning very little because there are no good investments, everything out there would just be a waste of capital.

luffy

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is there a list about shareholders? i mean the addresses that holds x amount of shares.
since GLBSE is closed how this is managed?

wachtwoord

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 07:51:29 AM

Quote from: poly on March 03, 2013, 06:02:07 AM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 06:00:32 AM

Quote from: Monster Tent on March 03, 2013, 02:07:19 AM

Even though you get less dividends you still have a share of the company so any retained earnings invested in expansion adds value for shareholders.

Dividends arent the main game.

I agree with this. This is the first company in Bitcoin history where it could have never issued dividends, and we'd be buying it based on earnings reports and asset valuations. This is a pretty big deal, imo.

Yep, dividends are certainly nice but ASICMINER is a great investment even without it. Kinda like how Apple didn't initially issue dividends?

Steve Jobs never believed in dividends and thought investors who chased those were idiots, and didn't want idiots investing in his company. Most of the best businessmen in history believe(d) only idiots chased dividends as well, including Warren Buffet, although its uniquely Steve Jobs that only wanted smart people investing in his company.

Buffet likes stockholder friendly companies that use excessive cash flow to pay a dividend. If the company can invest it better than the shareholder (many companies think that, most just destroy value) they shouldn't pay dividends but instead invest the money, because this would bring maximum return for the shareholder. This is why BRK does not pay a dividend. Buffet think he can invest the money better than his shareholders (BRK is an (re)insurer/investment-firm conglomerate for crying out loud, although imo they should probably let others lead the reinsurance business).

TLDR: Dividends are generally nice.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: poly on March 03, 2013, 06:02:07 AM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 06:00:32 AM

Quote from: Monster Tent on March 03, 2013, 02:07:19 AM

Even though you get less dividends you still have a share of the company so any retained earnings invested in expansion adds value for shareholders.

Dividends arent the main game.

I agree with this. This is the first company in Bitcoin history where it could have never issued dividends, and we'd be buying it based on earnings reports and asset valuations. This is a pretty big deal, imo.

Yep, dividends are certainly nice but ASICMINER is a great investment even without it. Kinda like how Apple didn't initially issue dividends?

Steve Jobs never believed in dividends and thought investors who chased those were idiots, and didn't want idiots investing in his company. Most of the best businessmen in history believe(d) only idiots chased dividends as well, including Warren Buffet, although its uniquely Steve Jobs that only wanted smart people investing in his company.

Gabit

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Quote from: poly on March 03, 2013, 06:02:07 AM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 06:00:32 AM

Quote from: Monster Tent on March 03, 2013, 02:07:19 AM

Even though you get less dividends you still have a share of the company so any retained earnings invested in expansion adds value for shareholders.

Dividends arent the main game.

I agree with this. This is the first company in Bitcoin history where it could have never issued dividends, and we'd be buying it based on earnings reports and asset valuations. This is a pretty big deal, imo.

Yep, dividends are certainly nice but ASICMINER is a great investment even without it. Kinda like how Apple didn't initially issue dividends?

Oh, they sure are niiice. Best companies in the world gives heavily under 10% dividend yield / year. Asicminer just made 25% in a week, in BTC. I know this wont last forever, but prospects are quite awesome. If BTC price keeps climbing, the expenses / dev costs drop dramatically. Then to the shovel selling business. If all this translates into a well established company, that dividend yield difference will translate to a higher stock price by the markets, then... wowza.

poly

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on March 03, 2013, 06:00:32 AM

Quote from: Monster Tent on March 03, 2013, 02:07:19 AM

Even though you get less dividends you still have a share of the company so any retained earnings invested in expansion adds value for shareholders.

Dividends arent the main game.

I agree with this. This is the first company in Bitcoin history where it could have never issued dividends, and we'd be buying it based on earnings reports and asset valuations. This is a pretty big deal, imo.

Yep, dividends are certainly nice but ASICMINER is a great investment even without it. Kinda like how Apple didn't initially issue dividends?

DiabloD3

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Quote from: Monster Tent on March 03, 2013, 02:07:19 AM

Even though you get less dividends you still have a share of the company so any retained earnings invested in expansion adds value for shareholders.

Dividends arent the main game.

I agree with this. This is the first company in Bitcoin history where it could have never issued dividends, and we'd be buying it based on earnings reports and asset valuations. This is a pretty big deal, imo.

Monster Tent

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Even though you get less dividends you still have a share of the company so any retained earnings invested in expansion adds value for shareholders.

Dividends arent the main game.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on March 02, 2013, 09:53:39 PM

The dividends may not half if ASICMINER deploys more machines , but at the current hashpower + difficulty yes the dividends will hash. The question is more of, in the future what will the ASIC market be?

Anyway, if you have ASICMINER shares, exchange them for BTCINVEST bonds! Your ASICMINER shares will be added to the btcinvest fund, and the dividends will of course be paid to shareholders (including you), while you benefit from diversification.

I will offer (not binding) 5 BTCINVEST bonds per ASICMINER share. PM if interested.

The future market of asicminer is already planned. Its selling asics. Once mining alone isnt a so big cash cow...

Sorry, i wont give my shares away that give me fine dividends. I dont see a reason to risk this.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

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The dividends may not half if ASICMINER deploys more machines , but at the current hashpower + difficulty yes the dividends will hash. The question is more of, in the future what will the ASIC market be?

Anyway, if you have ASICMINER shares, exchange them for BTCINVEST bonds! Your ASICMINER shares will be added to the btcinvest fund, and the dividends will of course be paid to shareholders (including you), while you benefit from diversification.

I will offer (not binding) 5 BTCINVEST bonds per ASICMINER share. PM if interested.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: samson on March 02, 2013, 03:16:53 AM

It won't go on for 52 weeks of the year, not at this rate anyway.

According to the initial terms of the IPO posted on page 1 of this thread the dividends will only be this high until the original 0.1 BTC (the principal) has been repaid.

After that it will all change as the company will need to fund future operations and further invest in itself in order to grow.

So don't expect this every week, not after the first 0.1 BTC per share has been paid out in dividends.

I believe this is partially why some people are starting to sell off their shares en masse. Coupled with the lack of a trading platform this is going to cause problems for some investors. People are paying around 0.5 BTC per share right now but once the dividend drops I suspect the price of these shares will normalise.

I still believe an alternate trading patform like BTCT would have (and could still be) good enough for the interim. These shares could have been trading for months prior to the migration to the proprietary platform.

Youre right with the principal. I forgot about this. But even then the dividends only should halve isnt it? The money needed to buy more asics probably too less to make a big difference so only the shares owned by the company will start earning dividends too. (Or did they already?)

Anyway... the principal is an effect to lower it, another might be upcoming competition. But against these factors there is, like matauc said, that we now only mine with 5TH/s and got these dividends with it. But there are asics for 57TH/s available (now or in some days). That means nearly 11 times the income. So as long as competition doesnt hit hard... you would need to beat me really hard to get me to sell my shares... Wink

In fact the prices nowadays are way way to undervalued in my opinion.

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Quote from: alpet on March 02, 2013, 08:24:28 AM

Quote from: friedcat on March 01, 2013, 08:03:10 AM

Power consumption
On our final products our chip consumes 6-8 watts/G on rated depending on temperature and voltage. After reviewing and comparison it turns out that our result is already very good with standard cell based design and 130nm tech.

Wow, it is perfect! These chips can be overclock significantly, if put them in refrigerator? Frequency doubling makes profitable use of the refrigerator IMHO )

Your "IMHO" here implied you made the proper calculations which you did not. Also, you don't use a refrigerator, that is extremely inefficient. You would use something called Phase change cooling. Which is also probably useless for this application. In fact, if they use A/C unit to cool the room, the optimal temp might not even be the usual room temps you are used to. Even 28nm chips wouldn't even remotely benefit from such cooling solutions and cooling has a greater effect on overclockability. And last, I believe overclocking isn't gonna get much attention for now or at all since time focused on deployment seems to be of importance because they will be running late vs the factories which used to be the bottlenecks, reversing that situation is primordial.

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