ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 852.

binaryFate

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1012

Still wild and free

Quote from: runeks on July 15, 2013, 11:59:14 AM

Quote from: binaryFate on July 15, 2013, 08:45:56 AM

It's true that latency can have a small effect on block mining rewards (higher probability of orphaned), but should not impact the number of transactions that are known to the mining node (except for those that arrive in the last moment before a block is found), so it cannot explain these low numbers.

I agree. We're seeing a 40% difference in the number of transactions included per block. Unless the Great Firewall is picking out transactions, I don't see how this is possible. One explanation is that ASICMiner has a custom filter to decide which transactions to include.

The custom filter is a good explanation. It's the only one I can think of actually. Great firewall appart...

Anybody has feelings, or even better, statistics on the type of transactions included in their blocks, in particular on their category (free or not), and the fee per KB (for the non-free), and their priority?
I think I saw something along that lines recently, don't remember if it was here or the speculation thread, or about AM at all.

EDIT: That would make a good official question for friedcat! I'm really curious about these filter policies and their motivations, if they do exist.

runeks

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1008

Quote from: binaryFate on July 15, 2013, 08:45:56 AM

It's true that latency can have a small effect on block mining rewards (higher probability of orphaned), but should not impact the number of transactions that are known to the mining node (except for those that arrive in the last moment before a block is found), so it cannot explain these low numbers.

I agree. We're seeing a 40% difference in the number of transactions included per block. Unless the Great Firewall is picking out transactions, I don't see how this is possible. One explanation is that ASICMiner has a custom filter to decide which transactions to include.

binaryFate

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1012

Still wild and free

It's true that latency can have a small effect on block mining rewards (higher probability of orphaned), but should not impact the number of transactions that are known to the mining node (except for those that arrive in the last moment before a block is found), so it cannot explain these low numbers.

tinus42

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

Quote from: canth on July 15, 2013, 08:23:45 AM

Quote from: tinus42 on July 15, 2013, 08:04:27 AM

Quote from: Jimmy2011 on July 15, 2013, 06:40:37 AM

I think it will be solved very soon, for example, offshore miner farm in HK with better internet connection environment may be considered and built.

Shenzen (where they are located) is only 10 miles away from Hong Kong, so that would make sense.

Quality of network latency and reliability between China and outside of China is not necessarily related to geographic distance. HK uses different ISPs and is outside the great firewall. Moving to HK for example, would be much better in terms of networking speed but I'm not sure that the regulatory concerns would be completely solved by that.

Wasn't thinking about network latency. Just simple logistics, build blades in Shenzen and have them up and running a few hours later in Hong Kong without much delay. Don't know anything about the internet in China and Hong Kong nor about the regulatory environments there.

canth

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1001

Quote from: tinus42 on July 15, 2013, 08:04:27 AM

Quote from: Jimmy2011 on July 15, 2013, 06:40:37 AM

I think it will be solved very soon, for example, offshore miner farm in HK with better internet connection environment may be considered and built.

Shenzen (where they are located) is only 10 miles away from Hong Kong, so that would make sense.

Quality of network latency and reliability between China and outside of China is not necessarily related to geographic distance. HK uses different ISPs and is outside the great firewall. Moving to HK for example, would be much better in terms of networking speed but I'm not sure that the regulatory concerns would be completely solved by that.

tinus42

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 501

Quote from: Jimmy2011 on July 15, 2013, 06:40:37 AM

I think it will be solved very soon, for example, offshore miner farm in HK with better internet connection environment may be considered and built.

Shenzen (where they are located) is only 10 miles away from Hong Kong, so that would make sense.

runeks

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1008

Quote from: Jimmy2011 on July 15, 2013, 06:40:37 AM

Quote from: canth on July 15, 2013, 06:08:43 AM

Quote from: twentyseventy on July 14, 2013, 10:28:13 PM

Quote from: msm595 on July 14, 2013, 10:19:53 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on July 14, 2013, 08:24:44 PM

I'm not dying to know the answer right now... but someday I'd like to know why ASICMiner doesn't include more transactions in its blocks. If you look at this block:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/398726/000000000000004a96eb5e666d882b238ab2bf5c51f6b3c0cc3eb420517b64a1

You'll notice that it was found a full hour after the previous block... so, 60 minutes worth of transactions were being collected in that time... and yet ASICMiner's block has only 8 transactions. Seems like a lot of missed transaction fees, no? Am I missing something?

I feel like friedcat should check that his node is well connected and receiving transactions. It makes a bad public image, considering the recent blockchain spam and congestion.

Yes, unfortunately the node isn't well connected; it never includes many transactions per block. While I'm a glad investor, it would be nice to see them supporting the blockchain a bit more.

China's network infrastructure isn't really comparable to the rest of the world.

1) It's a large country - roughly the size of the US and divided into 22 provinces.
2) There are multiple ISPs - bringing 100s of millions of nodes into existence over the course of a decade or so is not without some growing pains.
3) China is peered somewhat haphazardly with itself and other regions around the world. Latency from Tokyo to Beijing can sometimes be faster than Beijing to Beijing between 2 separate ISPs. Latency to New York might be better than latency to Sydney - depends upon the ISPs and what is going on with #4. Your mileage may vary.
4) The great firewall of China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Shield_Project ISPs practice self censorship. The government censors everything it feels like. Blocking or slowing down connections and then asking questions later, if at all is the standard practice.

Perhaps as Friedcat adds offshore operations, the AM node will end up being better connected.

1) Not 22 provinces, but 34.
2) optical fiber connection is necessary for the miner farm
3) it depends
4) GFW is indeed a burden for the usual users, but it has limited effect on bitcoin, and actually no obvious block of bitcoin by the government

I think it will be solved very soon, for example, offshore miner farm in HK with better internet connection environment may be considered and built.

Yeah, that average traffic rate of 3 KB/s really needs a dedicated fiber line.

TsuyokuNaritai

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: Jimmy2011 on July 15, 2013, 06:40:37 AM

I think it will be solved very soon, for example, offshore miner farm in HK with better internet connection environment may be considered and built.

The sooner the better. With better connectivity we not only get more fees, we should get more blocks for the same hashing power. Right now, if another pool is much better connected to the network, an AM found block could be orphaned even if it found first.

Jimmy2011

hero member

Activity: 589

Merit: 500

Quote from: canth on July 15, 2013, 06:08:43 AM

Quote from: twentyseventy on July 14, 2013, 10:28:13 PM

Quote from: msm595 on July 14, 2013, 10:19:53 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on July 14, 2013, 08:24:44 PM

I'm not dying to know the answer right now... but someday I'd like to know why ASICMiner doesn't include more transactions in its blocks. If you look at this block:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/398726/000000000000004a96eb5e666d882b238ab2bf5c51f6b3c0cc3eb420517b64a1

You'll notice that it was found a full hour after the previous block... so, 60 minutes worth of transactions were being collected in that time... and yet ASICMiner's block has only 8 transactions. Seems like a lot of missed transaction fees, no? Am I missing something?

I feel like friedcat should check that his node is well connected and receiving transactions. It makes a bad public image, considering the recent blockchain spam and congestion.

Yes, unfortunately the node isn't well connected; it never includes many transactions per block. While I'm a glad investor, it would be nice to see them supporting the blockchain a bit more.

China's network infrastructure isn't really comparable to the rest of the world.

1) It's a large country - roughly the size of the US and divided into 22 provinces.
2) There are multiple ISPs - bringing 100s of millions of nodes into existence over the course of a decade or so is not without some growing pains.
3) China is peered somewhat haphazardly with itself and other regions around the world. Latency from Tokyo to Beijing can sometimes be faster than Beijing to Beijing between 2 separate ISPs. Latency to New York might be better than latency to Sydney - depends upon the ISPs and what is going on with #4. Your mileage may vary.
4) The great firewall of China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Shield_Project ISPs practice self censorship. The government censors everything it feels like. Blocking or slowing down connections and then asking questions later, if at all is the standard practice.

Perhaps as Friedcat adds offshore operations, the AM node will end up being better connected.

1) Not 22 provinces, but 34.
2) optical fiber connection is necessary for the miner farm
3) it depends
4) GFW is indeed a burden for the usual users, but it has limited effect on bitcoin, and actually no obvious block of bitcoin by the government

I think it will be solved very soon, for example, offshore miner farm in HK with better internet connection environment may be considered and built.

binaryFate

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1012

Still wild and free

Quote from: canth on July 15, 2013, 06:08:43 AM

Quote from: twentyseventy on July 14, 2013, 10:28:13 PM

Quote from: msm595 on July 14, 2013, 10:19:53 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on July 14, 2013, 08:24:44 PM

I'm not dying to know the answer right now... but someday I'd like to know why ASICMiner doesn't include more transactions in its blocks. If you look at this block:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/398726/000000000000004a96eb5e666d882b238ab2bf5c51f6b3c0cc3eb420517b64a1

You'll notice that it was found a full hour after the previous block... so, 60 minutes worth of transactions were being collected in that time... and yet ASICMiner's block has only 8 transactions. Seems like a lot of missed transaction fees, no? Am I missing something?

I feel like friedcat should check that his node is well connected and receiving transactions. It makes a bad public image, considering the recent blockchain spam and congestion.

Yes, unfortunately the node isn't well connected; it never includes many transactions per block. While I'm a glad investor, it would be nice to see them supporting the blockchain a bit more.

China's network infrastructure isn't really comparable to the rest of the world.

1) It's a large country - roughly the size of the US and divided into 22 provinces.
2) There are multiple ISPs - bringing 100s of millions of nodes into existence over the course of a decade or so is not without some growing pains.
3) China is peered somewhat haphazardly with itself and other regions around the world. Latency from Tokyo to Beijing can sometimes be faster than Beijing to Beijing between 2 separate ISPs. Latency to New York might be better than latency to Sydney - depends upon the ISPs and what is going on with #4. Your mileage may vary.
4) The great firewall of China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Shield_Project ISPs practice self censorship. The government censors everything it feels like. Blocking or slowing down connections and then asking questions later, if at all is the standard practice.

Perhaps as Friedcat adds offshore operations, the AM node will end up being better connected.

Given the ratio of the network hashrate of AM, that seems a crucial point to me, not as an AM shareholder but for the overall bitcoin network health.
Additionally, as an AM shareholders, does not look very good for AM reputation.
Hope things will get better soon.

canth

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1001

Quote from: twentyseventy on July 14, 2013, 10:28:13 PM

Quote from: msm595 on July 14, 2013, 10:19:53 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on July 14, 2013, 08:24:44 PM

I'm not dying to know the answer right now... but someday I'd like to know why ASICMiner doesn't include more transactions in its blocks. If you look at this block:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/398726/000000000000004a96eb5e666d882b238ab2bf5c51f6b3c0cc3eb420517b64a1

You'll notice that it was found a full hour after the previous block... so, 60 minutes worth of transactions were being collected in that time... and yet ASICMiner's block has only 8 transactions. Seems like a lot of missed transaction fees, no? Am I missing something?

I feel like friedcat should check that his node is well connected and receiving transactions. It makes a bad public image, considering the recent blockchain spam and congestion.

Yes, unfortunately the node isn't well connected; it never includes many transactions per block. While I'm a glad investor, it would be nice to see them supporting the blockchain a bit more.

China's network infrastructure isn't really comparable to the rest of the world.

1) It's a large country - roughly the size of the US and divided into 22 provinces.
2) There are multiple ISPs - bringing 100s of millions of nodes into existence over the course of a decade or so is not without some growing pains.
3) China is peered somewhat haphazardly with itself and other regions around the world. Latency from Tokyo to Beijing can sometimes be faster than Beijing to Beijing between 2 separate ISPs. Latency to New York might be better than latency to Sydney - depends upon the ISPs and what is going on with #4. Your mileage may vary.
4) The great firewall of China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Shield_Project ISPs practice self censorship. The government censors everything it feels like. Blocking or slowing down connections and then asking questions later, if at all is the standard practice.

Perhaps as Friedcat adds offshore operations, the AM node will end up being better connected.

yuchuanzhen

full member

Activity: 234

Merit: 100

Quote from: Lohoris on July 15, 2013, 03:43:59 AM

Quote from: vlaoou321 on July 14, 2013, 07:19:01 PM

Quote from: tinus42 on July 14, 2013, 05:02:15 PM

I'm curious. Are you a PLA officer? As your avatar implies?

yes, a was

I don't understand: why did you answer for him, and why did your answer differ from his?

Maybe he knows something about me,whatever.
And I think this is off-topic.So..

runeks

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1008

Quote from: chriswilmer on July 14, 2013, 08:24:44 PM

I'm not dying to know the answer right now... but someday I'd like to know why ASICMiner doesn't include more transactions in its blocks. If you look at this block:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/398726/000000000000004a96eb5e666d882b238ab2bf5c51f6b3c0cc3eb420517b64a1

You'll notice that it was found a full hour after the previous block... so, 60 minutes worth of transactions were being collected in that time... and yet ASICMiner's block has only 8 transactions. Seems like a lot of missed transaction fees, no? Am I missing something?

I actually did an analysis of all ASICMiner mined blocks, and they only get around 60% of the amount of fees that all other blocks get on average. And they only include 65% the number of transactions that other nodes include.

Code:

Analyzed 7,141 blocks containing 2,023,595 transactions.
-----Stats-----:

ASICMiner stats (1190 blocks, 232,779 transaction):
	Average transaction count per block: 195.6
	Maximum number of transactions in a block: 1323
	Minimum fee: -0.00000000
	Average fee: 0.00084612
	Average fees per block: 0.1655
Other blocks stats (5951 blocks, 1,790,816 transaction):
	Average transaction count per block: 300.9
	Maximum number of transactions in a block: 1333
	Minimum fee: -0.00000000
	Average fee: 0.00089534
	Average fees per block: 0.2694

runeks

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1008

Quote from: Vycid on July 15, 2013, 01:16:29 AM

Quote from: supert on July 14, 2013, 04:19:40 PM

Quote from: runeks on July 14, 2013, 01:08:51 PM

Quote from: canth on July 14, 2013, 12:31:32 PM

Quote from: runeks on July 14, 2013, 12:28:55 PM

So what's the best place to buy ASICMINER put options?

BTC-TC only has TWO contracts available. And they both have huge premiums.

Is there something better anywhere?

Put out how many you're looking for, what strike and premium you're looking for and what your time frame is - you'll get people to put them up. Possibly myself included.

Fair request.

I'm looking to buy 20 American style put options with a strike price of 3.0 BTC and a duration of 90 days for 0.25 BTC per contract.

I'm tempted I must admit. I'm a bit pushed for time at the moment - how many were you thinking of buying?

Offering .28 per contract at 3.0, 90d. I will pay and have purchased many options already.

Alternatively, if you'd like more return on your frozen assets in exchange for more risk, I'll offer 0.3 for 3.2 (this has been a standing offer).

BTCT only.

I want to buy around 20 contracts. But less will do.

I will trump Vycid's bid and pay 0.31 per contract for 90d puts with a strike price of 3.2.

SmiGueL

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 252

Quote from: elefter on July 12, 2013, 03:05:32 PM

Quote from: San1ty on July 12, 2013, 08:42:11 AM

Quote from: velacreations on July 12, 2013, 08:31:04 AM

Quote from: SmiGueL on July 12, 2013, 06:09:48 AM

I created a new temporary page for the dividend prediction:
www.asicminercharts.com/divprediction

Eventually I'll add the meter next to the wallet meter on the live page

Right now it says .01785 Is that right? How does it figure that?

~~It looks at AM's mining wallet and divides by 400K .~~ No, read this

So the mining income is projected into the future but the sales income is what has been sold so far?

Exactly

The mining income is 'pretty' steady, and thus a linear extrapolation seems very reasonable..
But if in the first 24h 2.5kBTC of sticks/blades are ~~sold~~ paid it is VERY unlikely that at the end of the week the final amount will be 18kBTC Tongue

_{(aka: More income on sales than the highest dividend ever..)}

But I'm kind of 'testing' it right now, if this value seems reasonable I'll add it to the live page

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: vlaoou321 on July 14, 2013, 07:19:01 PM

Quote from: tinus42 on July 14, 2013, 05:02:15 PM

Quote from: yuchuanzhen on July 14, 2013, 08:45:49 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on July 14, 2013, 07:36:30 AM

Does anyone here know of a relationship between ASICMiner and DiscusFish?

I see a clear correlation between their hashrates. While correlation != causation, is DiscusFish maybe renting a percent of ASICMiner's hashrate? Are investors being paid a little extra?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1i9ts8/is_asicminer_renting_hashes_to_discusfish_and_if/

As I know,they are both chinese,so am i.
And ,that's all.

I'm curious. Are you a PLA officer? As your avatar implies?

yes, a was

I don't understand: why did you answer for him, and why did your answer differ from his?

Vycid

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Quote from: supert on July 14, 2013, 04:19:40 PM

Quote from: runeks on July 14, 2013, 01:08:51 PM

Quote from: canth on July 14, 2013, 12:31:32 PM

Quote from: runeks on July 14, 2013, 12:28:55 PM

So what's the best place to buy ASICMINER put options?

BTC-TC only has TWO contracts available. And they both have huge premiums.

Is there something better anywhere?

Put out how many you're looking for, what strike and premium you're looking for and what your time frame is - you'll get people to put them up. Possibly myself included.

Fair request.

I'm looking to buy 20 American style put options with a strike price of 3.0 BTC and a duration of 90 days for 0.25 BTC per contract.

Quote from: binaryFate on July 14, 2013, 12:53:25 PM

Quote from: canth on July 14, 2013, 12:31:32 PM

Quote from: runeks on July 14, 2013, 12:28:55 PM

So what's the best place to buy ASICMINER put options?

BTC-TC only has TWO contracts available. And they both have huge premiums.

Is there something better anywhere?

Put out how many you're looking for, what strike and premium you're looking for and what your time frame is - you'll get people to put them up. Possibly myself included.

If anybody has a link that explains how simply as possible how these put options work, please share. I'm a complete layman with this.

An American style put option is a contract that entitles the owner the right, but not the obligation, to sell the specified asset at the specified price (called the strike price) within the specified period.

If it's European style then it's at the expiration date.

I'm tempted I must admit. I'm a bit pushed for time at the moment - how many were you thinking of buying?

Offering .28 per contract at 3.0, 90d. I will pay and have purchased many options already.

Alternatively, if you'd like more return on your frozen assets in exchange for more risk, I'll offer 0.3 for 3.2 (this has been a standing offer).

BTCT only.

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: msm595 on July 14, 2013, 10:19:53 PM

Quote from: chriswilmer on July 14, 2013, 08:24:44 PM

I'm not dying to know the answer right now... but someday I'd like to know why ASICMiner doesn't include more transactions in its blocks. If you look at this block:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/398726/000000000000004a96eb5e666d882b238ab2bf5c51f6b3c0cc3eb420517b64a1

You'll notice that it was found a full hour after the previous block... so, 60 minutes worth of transactions were being collected in that time... and yet ASICMiner's block has only 8 transactions. Seems like a lot of missed transaction fees, no? Am I missing something?

I feel like friedcat should check that his node is well connected and receiving transactions. It makes a bad public image, considering the recent blockchain spam and congestion.

Yes, unfortunately the node isn't well connected; it never includes many transactions per block. While I'm a glad investor, it would be nice to see them supporting the blockchain a bit more.

msm595

full member

Activity: 185

Merit: 100

Quote from: chriswilmer on July 14, 2013, 08:24:44 PM

I'm not dying to know the answer right now... but someday I'd like to know why ASICMiner doesn't include more transactions in its blocks. If you look at this block:

http://blockchain.info/block-index/398726/000000000000004a96eb5e666d882b238ab2bf5c51f6b3c0cc3eb420517b64a1

You'll notice that it was found a full hour after the previous block... so, 60 minutes worth of transactions were being collected in that time... and yet ASICMiner's block has only 8 transactions. Seems like a lot of missed transaction fees, no? Am I missing something?

I feel like friedcat should check that his node is well connected and receiving transactions. It makes a bad public image, considering the recent blockchain spam and congestion.

yuchuanzhen

full member

Activity: 234

Merit: 100

Quote from: tinus42 on July 14, 2013, 05:02:15 PM

Quote from: yuchuanzhen on July 14, 2013, 08:45:49 AM

Quote from: organofcorti on July 14, 2013, 07:36:30 AM

Does anyone here know of a relationship between ASICMiner and DiscusFish?

I see a clear correlation between their hashrates. While correlation != causation, is DiscusFish maybe renting a percent of ASICMiner's hashrate? Are investors being paid a little extra?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1i9ts8/is_asicminer_renting_hashes_to_discusfish_and_if/

As I know,they are both chinese,so am i.
And ,that's all.

I'm curious. Are you a PLA officer? As your avatar implies?

No,sir.

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 852. (Read 3917468 times)