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Topic: Asics are scam nothing will arrive and it will be the end of bitecoin (Read 16277 times)

newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
they are here yes, but they are a scam, too overpriced

lol at 50 btc for 10Gh or 2 btc for 300MH, this is the definition of legal scam

Pricing will come down when there is more competition, the only reason it is so expensive is because only 1 supplier currently controls the market of readily available ASICs, give it a couple of months and prices should be less than a quarter of their current price.

this is not asics. THIS IS SHIT.

It's economics
donator
Activity: 756
Merit: 500
-Bitcoin & Ripple-
they are here yes, but they are a scam, too overpriced

lol at 50 btc for 10Gh or 2 btc for 300MH, this is the definition of legal scam

Pricing will come down when there is more competition, the only reason it is so expensive is because only 1 supplier currently controls the market of readily available ASICs, give it a couple of months and prices should be less than a quarter of their current price.

this is not asics. THIS IS SHIT.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
they are here yes, but they are a scam, too overpriced

lol at 50 btc for 10Gh or 2 btc for 300MH, this is the definition of legal scam

Pricing will come down when there is more competition, the only reason it is so expensive is because only 1 supplier currently controls the market of readily available ASICs, give it a couple of months and prices should be less than a quarter of their current price.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
they are here yes, but they are a scam, too overpriced

lol at 50 btc for 10Gh or 2 btc for 300MH, this is the definition of legal scam
newbie
Activity: 53
Merit: 0
ASIC devices and chips are slowly making it on to the seen.  They are arriving.  They are not a scam.

If you want to buy an ASIC device.  Buy a few USB ASIC Block Erupters.  Join a buy group.  This buy group needs orders for about 40 more unit.

European Buy Group
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gb-usb-asic-miner-closed-and-completed-195037
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
-> Switch to Litecoins with can't have Asics

Why do people still believe this? If something can be done on a general purpose chip, it can be done on a application specific chip.

Because it will be expensive.

HELLA expensive. You need the fitting RAM on it. If a 7970 at 700kh/s needs around 1.5gb of GDDR5 ram, consider what amount you need to make a 5MH/s Scrypt miner.  (The answer is around 64gb GDDR5 ram)

People believe it because that's how it is. The "general purpose chip" is not doing the bulk of the computing, and requires a ton of RAM. If you think someone will make some sort of super-ram for scrypt mining, maybe you can share your thoughts on that, otherwise it's pretty clear ASICs hold little scrypt potential ATM
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
-> Switch to Litecoins with can't have Asics

Why do people still believe this? If something can be done on a general purpose chip, it can be done on a application specific chip.

Because it will be expensive.

HELLA expensive. You need the fitting RAM on it. If a 7970 at 700kh/s needs around 1.5gb of GDDR5 ram, consider what amount you need to make a 5MH/s Scrypt miner.  (The answer is around 64gb GDDR5 ram)
hero member
Activity: 529
Merit: 501
Let's look at a bit of history.

Bitcoin started out with no vendor support, nothing you could buy with them, and CPU mining.

Then came multi-core cpu support. The sky did not fall.

Then game GPU support. The sky did not fall.

Then came FPGA's, which are still quite viable. The sky did not fall. Bitcoin now has more acceptance and is higher in price than ever before, minus a few weird trading days a few weeks ago.

People are still mining with GPUs, CPUs, FPGAs and whatever else they can get their hands on.

In fact, I just set up my mother-in-law's 10 year old single core Pentium 4 to mine BTC, and its pulling at 11 Mh/s !!! Whoo !!

So, the sky will not fall, and life will go on. BTC's will continue to be generate. If it's not Avalon, or BFL, it will be somebody else coming up with something creative.

I'm optimistic. So, optimistic, in fact, that I just started mining last week, and ordered another case and another motherboard to re-use an old processor I had lying around. I'll probably pick up some Radeon's on e-bay in a week or so, and I might even *gasp*, order a couple of BFL Jalepenos just so I can piss money away. What the hell, it's only money. You can't take it with you.
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
-> Switch to Litecoins with can't have Asics

Why do people still believe this? If something can be done on a general purpose chip, it can be done on a application specific chip.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
I'm saying the truth. Period.

Can't argue with that.

Also, the sky is falling.

I hate it when the sky falls.


Asics Arrive -> BTC Difficulty Increases -> Only mine with Asics now -> people built large Asic rooms to dominate bitcoins.
People with GPU no longer make a profit -> Sell GPU and call quits
                                                         -> Switch to Litecoins with can't have Asics


Asics Don't Arrive -> Avalons already arrived... but another company would just try to get an Asic
                        -> people start being interested in GPU rigs again, and build larger ones.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
it's hashing algorithm is Scrypt which has no currently known way to be parallel computed
This isn't true.  GPUs and even multi-core CPUs parallelize Litecoin mining.

Quote
(ie any asics or fgpas that do eventually come out for it can only have a minimal advantage).
This isn't true either.  Scrypt ASIC and FPGA design is more complex and expensive than SHA-256 hardware design, and the memory requirements would increase costs, but dedicated hardware will always offer significant  efficiency advantages over general purpose hardware for embarrassingly parallelizable tasks.  People used to think that GPU mining Litecoin would not be viable.
donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
it's hashing algorithm is Scrypt which has no currently known way to be parallel computed
This makes it a security hazard. The cryptographic strength has to lie with the key, not the algorithm. Anybody with a slight understanding of cryptology will confirm this.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1001
To be honest, I don't really want the ASIC's to arrive. When they do, gpu miners are gonna lose out big time. And people who can't afford an ASIC aren't gonna have enough hash rate to compete Sad

Miners can just switch to Litecoin. It's more profitable than Bitcoin to mine anyway + it's hashing algorithm is Scrypt which has no currently known way to be parallel computed (ie any asics or fgpas that do eventually come out for it can only have a minimal advantage). Check out btc-e.com to see the exchange rate for Litecoin, or see the profitability on dustcoin.com
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 105
Asics are scam nothing will arrive and it will be the end of bitecoin I'm saying the truth. Period.
member
Activity: 129
Merit: 10
BFL has delayed but NOT DENIED....To  deliver a  perfect MINING ASIC SYSTEM is not a joke. ASIC  is not a Scam......it will BOOST BITCOIN....The strong system of CHEKS & BALANCES by increasing the difficulty rate can stabilise and overcome any GIGANTIC COMPUTATIONAL NODE Undecided
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1010
Ad maiora!
IF BFL is a scam...which they are starting to look A LOT like... not only are quite a few of you OUT significant monies.... BUT bitcoin gets a major BLACK EYE. You will notice there is a little press around BTC... it is a novelty...a curiosity (as far as the mainstream press is concerned) not hugely newsworthy... UNTIL something goes wrong. And I'm not talking about technical bugs that are only understood by geeks, I mean human interest news stories like "Bitcoin Fraudsters bunk users of millions in Fake BTC mining scam" which grabs the interest of many many news readers. Not to mention the schadenfraud (sp?) or sadistic pleasure that non-investors get when they see us early adopters get stung.

If BFL is full of shit, it will hurt BTC's overall credibility and could prevent it from gaining widespread adoption. If they aren't its business as usual, but IF they are scamming... WE, the honest BTC community, should do something about it. Aren't most of you guys knowledgable about hacking? couldn't you "punish" josh and co.? if they prove to be bullshit?

just sayin....
sr. member
Activity: 471
Merit: 256
For a large entity with the agenda of overpowering the network, without ASIC the system is a cheap combination bike lock.
When all asics come on line the hashpower makes overpowering the chain much more challenging.
This will be reflected in bitcoins worth. what is worth more? a 4 barrel combination bike lock or a bank vault?
More hashpower means more security. worth of a storage facility is proportional to its security.

After the first genesis block was laid, when difficulty was 1, had you been privvy to the network you could have overpowered it with trivial computing power. Would you prefer it stay like that, just so you can mine easier?

I disagree. The only reason this has been true in the past is because a relatively large portion of people involved with Bitcoin at the moment are involved in mining or investments in mining. The average user of the future wouldn't know anything about the security of the Bitcoin network. How many people who do online banking know what https or a public and private keypair are?
We are not talking about the worth of a storage facility when we are talking about Bitcoin as it becomes mainstream. We are talking about the worth of a currency.

So you disagree with this?:
Any E-Currency that is easy to crack is doomed to fail.
Mainstream joe public has little to do with anything. They are just consumers who will only shape the interface as producers try to please them.
Large growth will be garnered by large vendors getting on board, granted the CEOs of these companies may not be computer whizzes or know anything about cryptography but they have employees and freelance advisors who are cold and objective and VERY good at math like Spock.
BTC is a fungible asset based on proof of work, ecenomically it is identical to gold; Imagine if somebody worked out a way to quantumly lock onto gold atoms within 1000m and teleport them into the back of their van lab. Word spreads and gold funneling vans are zipping around everywhere. do you not think this softened security would undermine golds value as an asset? I think you'll find it would! Even if all the gold bugs knew nothing about the details of quantum teleportation.
The fundamental worth of any currency is ONLY related to its ease of use (liquidity) and its security.
Of course fiat currency, does not abide by these fair laws, it has its own set of laws that are enforced by its issuers and accepted by its users. So maybe you're still thinking with a fiat mindset? Fiat currency is only as secure as a few people choose it to be, with quantitive easing a handful of big-wigs can inflate the currency at the push of a button as and when they please, that's pretty dodgy when you think about it.

Um, no?
Your examples seem to be arguing against something else other than what I have said.

What I disagree with is the idea that Bitcoin will be valued directly based on its security more because "the hashrate is higher". It has proven to be secure and continues to do so. If it was proven insecure before but then goes on to be proven secure for a year, that would be a different story. I am arguing against the idea that a massive increase in hashpower will directly increase the value of a Bitcoin.
Changing your public/ private keys on your bank's website from 2048 to 8192 is not going to get more customers.

Never, ever did I say if Bitcoin were to lose its prowess in security would it then continue to be successful.

If Bitcoin's security is proven ineffective --> price will drop significantly.
If Bitcoin suffers no security issues        --> price may go up due to other factors
If Bitcoin hashrate increases                 --> price will not go up because of this.

In the second underline, you are forgetting about supply and demand, which is a significant factor in Bitcoin specifically due to the few and growing users and the fixed supply. A simple news article can cause large changes in price that would not be true for USD.
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
I had a personal interest in BFL being the real deal, and personally went through the trouble of vetting them - including verifying arrival of shipments and the identity of lead individuals involved.

They seem to be legitimate.


Exhibit A.
https://i.imgur.com/hD8Ox36.jpg
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
To be honest, I don't really want the ASIC's to arrive. When they do, gpu miners are gonna lose out big time. And people who can't afford an ASIC aren't gonna have enough hash rate to compete Sad


Yes the GPU days will be over, but it doesn't exclude the little guy.  In fact it's a lot easier to grab a $150 Jalapeno (assuming it comes to fruition) and just plug it into a USB port than it is to try to setup CGMiner with all the correct flags and worry about temps (I'm talking for a layman).  For those who have $ and are into running GPU farms there's always the possibility of custom modding he ASIC units in the future.

Don't tell me people are "mining" with their 5450 GPU which costs $50 and don't have $150 for a jalapeno (or whatever low end device any manufacturer may put out).

But apparently there's already 20k preorders on Butterfly Labs, so even with a jalapeno I'm not entirely sure it would be worth it. The difficulty is going to increase so much if the ASIC's arrive, and I honestly believe a single Jalepeno will be enough. But oh well, I guess it's better than nothing Smiley
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