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Topic: At what pricepoint is bitcoin dead? - page 9. (Read 27368 times)

legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1073
October 10, 2011, 02:33:23 PM
#39
Technically there will never be 21 million bitcoins in existence... just slightly below that amount.  By 2033 there should be around 99.2% of all bitcoins that are going to be mined in circulation.
How about we gentlemanly split it in the middle: sometime beteween 2100 and 2104 the number of
mined coins will reach 20,999,999.000,000,00 ? The last coin will never be mined to completion.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1023
Democracy is the original 51% attack
October 10, 2011, 02:17:46 PM
#38
If a small-ish group of people can buy the daily supply with a smallish amount of money, I would say that the system is in it's death throes. 


According to your logic, Bitcoin was dead 2 years ago.

But let's examine something. If the price went back to $1, Bitcoin would be just like it was when it was previously $1, except for the following:
- many new exchanges
- many new merchant solutions
- many new vendors
- stronger hashrate
- stronger brand recognition
- longer lifetime (more reasonable to trust)
- stronger client software
- no displacement by multiple competing chains
- etc.

If Bitcoin was viable when it was previously $1 WITHOUT all those subsequent improvements, it'd be reasonable to think it's viable at $1 WITH all those improvements.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
Keep it real
October 10, 2011, 02:08:30 PM
#37
I will then start selling once all 21 million are mined.
That would be sometime late in year 2140.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply

So more like: My great^N-grand-children will start selling it.


Technically there will never be 21 million bitcoins in existence... just slightly below that amount.  By 2033 there should be around 99.2% of all bitcoins that are going to be mined in circulation.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
October 10, 2011, 01:56:52 PM
#36
If a small-ish group of people can buy the daily supply with a smallish amount of money, I would say that the system is in it's death throes.  1000 people spending $10/day could do so at 7200/day and a price of $1.40-ish.  So, I would say that we are uncomfortably close at this point and that interest would likely drain away.  Judging from the network activity, that seems to be occurring.

But it seems to me that it is also possible that rather than death, we could have some sort of a 'mothball' situation where current value holders put enough effort in to keep the system basically going.  If/when an obvious and significant need for such a solution appears, it could be that the existing Bitcoin solution is more viable than alternate newer solutions or variants of the Bitcoin solution.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1023
Democracy is the original 51% attack
October 10, 2011, 01:44:26 PM
#35
Imagine what you could do if bitcoin did go to $0.0001 ...you could buy all the bitcoins in existence for less than $1000.  You could then peg the price of bitcoin at around $1 ...selling for $1.05 and buying for $0.95.  People would then know the price of bitcoin wouldn't fall below $0.95 (assuming they trust you to maintain the peg).  They also know you will be selling more as the price rises above $1.05.  Bitcoin would be used to facilitate private p2p transactions as it was intended and the coins would slowly return to circulation and you would make a fortune.  This of course is why it would be next to impossible for someone to corner the market on all bitcoins like this.

Brilliant point Steve.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1073
October 10, 2011, 01:06:17 PM
#34
I will then start selling once all 21 million are mined.
That would be sometime late in year 2140.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_Currency_Supply

So more like: My great^N-grand-children will start selling it.
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 2868
Shitcoin Minimalist
October 10, 2011, 12:41:25 PM
#33
$0.00

/thread
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
October 10, 2011, 10:16:28 AM
#32
If bitcoin dies then I will buy as much of it as I can and do all of the mining with my GPU at work for free.

I will then start selling once all 21 million are mined.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
October 10, 2011, 08:57:35 AM
#31
Seems to me bitcoin is dead where its been hanging at for weeks, 4 to 5 bux a bitcoin is not helping anyone.  To expensive to create them with the cards and electricity cost, selling, trading too risky for way to low of profit, the only way bitcoin gets back to where it needs to be seems to be if some company starts accepting them, newegg, amazon something like that or when all the bitcoins have been made, then maybe the value would rise.  It is a toy at this price point, needs to be 10 to 15 a bitcoin to actually pay for itself, pay for anything make it work.  1 buck sucks, 4 bux sucks, kinda dead and stuck for past month, not looking good.

True that !

What the hell dudes? Bitcoin is not here for miners to make money. Miner profits have an indirect effect on network security and stability, that's the extent of its importance. And there enough people who will continue to hash for the sake of the network, so hashing power will never be zero.

Also, Bitcoin is a toy because it doesn't "pay for itself"? It's the other way around, it's a toy as long as you see it as a mining game. Try using it for a change.

Anyway, the pricepoint it is dead is obviously $0. In other words, when a fatal vulnerability is discovered.
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1114
WalletScrutiny.com
October 10, 2011, 08:13:46 AM
#30
I gave some bitcoins for a birth recently. The CD will hopefully not get lost and yes, I have a copy in my backup but the point is if she knows about bitcoin when she turns 18, she will definitely know what to do with it. If not, well then be it. Same with my savings in Bitcoins. I would not sell at 1 what I bought at 9 as I did not put all my savings in like other dudes so I'm not forced to cut my losses.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1008
October 10, 2011, 07:29:00 AM
#29
Imagine what you could do if bitcoin did go to $0.0001 ...you could buy all the bitcoins in existence for less than $1000.  You could then peg the price of bitcoin at around $1 ...selling for $1.05 and buying for $0.95.  People would then know the price of bitcoin wouldn't fall below $0.95 (assuming they trust you to maintain the peg).  They also know you will be selling more as the price rises above $1.05.  Bitcoin would be used to facilitate private p2p transactions as it was intended and the coins would slowly return to circulation and you would make a fortune.  This of course is why it would be next to impossible for someone to corner the market on all bitcoins like this.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
October 10, 2011, 03:30:56 AM
#28
0.0001 then i will abandon bitcoin Tongue

You will abandon it to me. I'll be buying every coin for my collection. How sweet would a full set be?

fine fine, but its never going down there Smiley and even if it does, i may not sell i would only have 0.0036 USD for it, i would just stop caring for it.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1001
Revolutionizing Brokerage of Personal Data
October 10, 2011, 03:29:04 AM
#27
0.0001 then i will abandon bitcoin Tongue

You will abandon it to me. I'll be buying every coin for my collection. How sweet would a full set be?

Not so fast - I'm bidding twice that! Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
October 10, 2011, 03:12:50 AM
#26
0.0001 then i will abandon bitcoin Tongue

You will abandon it to me. I'll be buying every coin for my collection. How sweet would a full set be?
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 502
October 10, 2011, 03:03:39 AM
#25
I also don't like these low prices. Not because of the price itself, but because a small variation in price has a huge impact in someone's wallet. And the price has been moving a lot lately, mostly down...
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
October 10, 2011, 01:55:20 AM
#24
0.0001 then i will abandon bitcoin Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
October 10, 2011, 01:38:23 AM
#23
Seems to me bitcoin is dead where its been hanging at for weeks, 4 to 5 bux a bitcoin is not helping anyone.  To expensive to create them with the cards and electricity cost, selling, trading too risky for way to low of profit, the only way bitcoin gets back to where it needs to be seems to be if some company starts accepting them, newegg, amazon something like that or when all the bitcoins have been made, then maybe the value would rise.  It is a toy at this price point, needs to be 10 to 15 a bitcoin to actually pay for itself, pay for anything make it work.  1 buck sucks, 4 bux sucks, kinda dead and stuck for past month, not looking good.

So are these altruists finding 5 an hour going to stop now?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
October 09, 2011, 10:38:54 PM
#22
Seems to me bitcoin is dead where its been hanging at for weeks, 4 to 5 bux a bitcoin is not helping anyone.  To expensive to create them with the cards and electricity cost, selling, trading too risky for way to low of profit, the only way bitcoin gets back to where it needs to be seems to be if some company starts accepting them, newegg, amazon something like that or when all the bitcoins have been made, then maybe the value would rise.  It is a toy at this price point, needs to be 10 to 15 a bitcoin to actually pay for itself, pay for anything make it work.  1 buck sucks, 4 bux sucks, kinda dead and stuck for past month, not looking good.

True that !
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
October 09, 2011, 10:34:38 PM
#21
Seems to me bitcoin is dead where its been hanging at for weeks, 4 to 5 bux a bitcoin is not helping anyone.  To expensive to create them with the cards and electricity cost, selling, trading too risky for way to low of profit, the only way bitcoin gets back to where it needs to be seems to be if some company starts accepting them, newegg, amazon something like that or when all the bitcoins have been made, then maybe the value would rise.  It is a toy at this price point, needs to be 10 to 15 a bitcoin to actually pay for itself, pay for anything make it work.  1 buck sucks, 4 bux sucks, kinda dead and stuck for past month, not looking good.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
October 09, 2011, 09:27:57 PM
#20
1 BTC = $1 would be nice, at least for people used to dealing in $US.
Similar to how CAD, AUD, NZD plug along at close to par values.
And difficulty about 1/4 what it is now.

What matters is that people see a need to transact in BTC, that it provides something that they can't get with the banking system - the ability to quietly exchange money without being "watched", without needing approval to open an account, to trade without being managed, out from under the thumb of a gangster/bankster mafia.

If the majority would wake up and take hold of their future they could break free of the oppression and terraform a new economic reality. Hooooowl. Is that enough of a rally cry...



How could bitcoin thrive at 1 dollar? That doesn't give 10000 people enough for a small house or everyone in the US enough for one meal. Bitcoin is a little toy at $1.

...What?

You want the price to be like $100/BTC with 10,000 people?  We only have like 50,000 users or something.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting.  Is a dollar at little toy at...$1?  I assume you're suggesting that 21,000,000 coins spread among a population of ~7 billion would be pointless if they are worth $1 each.  

The point is that if 7 billion people are using BTC there won't be a fiat/BTC conversion rate.  If BTC is used by so many people, deflation would have long ago kicked in.  

Or, another way to look at it would be that if BTC was worth a dollar (but still accepted by everyone), the same dollar today would be worth thousands then.

But, I must say you allude to a very interesting point.  That point can be phrased as a question:  How do we build a large economy if people can't buy houses?  The housing example is a good one because there simply cannot be enough coins in existence to support everyone buying their houses, cars, etc. in BTC if it's worth $1.  This isn't even close to being feasible at it's current exchange rate or even $30.  And yet, even on this forum we see things like people selling businesses and gemstones that cost like 20 grand.  Nobody should have that many BTC unless they paid for them with cash.  Too few people with too many BTC.

So, we need to learn from the implications of this.

1.)   Don't start out worrying about whether or you can buy a huge house or a car with BTC.  It needs to start small.  If the current supply-to-value ratio of BTC wouldn't support everyone in the whole world buying the same product as you intend to purchase, then you shouldn't buy it anyway.

2.)  This means that you need interest.  Interest comes from desire.  Peoples' desires include wanting to be safe and connected, so focus on that.  Security and ease of connectivity need to be of primary focus.  Security basically comes down to having your BTC insured so you don't have to worry about your account getting hacked.  

3.)  Ease of connectivity means we need coders who will actually make the Bitcoin client easy to use -- and I said easy as in easy for a kindergartener to understand and use.  Something like "Download?"  And after the download, you now have the client, a miner (preconfigured), an account at a pool, and an account at an exchange.  And maybe like a hotline number to call.  How about a Bitcoin business where it is the job of the employees to simply explain the whole goddamn thing to people?

4.)  If and when interest grows such that deflation truly sets in, you will finally be ready to think about purchasing houses and cars.  By that time, you will also be able to make all the repairs on your house and buy all the tools to do them with BTC.

There is a serious flaw with any currency (or in any economy) in which a very small number of people hold a great % the currency.  This is one reason I hate SC and it's dipshit spokesman.  But right now I suspect a very number of people hold at least 50% of BTC.  There's not nearly enough volume on the exchanges to explain the distribution of all 7 million+ BTC.
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