Yes, anyone from GOX listening?
The bot issue is annoying, but not nearly as annoying when you have standing orders to sell at 14.20 and BTC goes to 14.80,
yet no execution.
And of course, the typical broken English response from GOX, "Our system was down on the week end"
Topic: ATTN: MtGox - page 3. (Read 5994 times)
What does MagicalTux have to say about this?
The "stupid" people are still at " stupid" risk for the "stupid" trades thAt may or maynot get executed
Those "stupid" trades that are executed are mostly at amounts way below 1 btc. Potential losses of a few percent on that kind of money are simply not enough to discourage stupid botting. Seriously, i have nothing against bots (i even share my workspace with Bender!), but these kiddy bots are pretty annoying.
The "stupid" people are still at " stupid" risk for the "stupid" trades thAt may or maynot get executed
Yes, but stupid people doing stupid things cause stupid amounts of market data, making everyone else's systems run slower.
The "stupid" people are still at " stupid" risk for the "stupid" trades thAt may or maynot get executed
What's wrong with bots?
Have you ever aggressively traded the US equity markets?
The NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMX are all run by bots. What would
lead anyone to believe that the BTC markets would reject
automation?
What most inexperienced perceive as "a bot" are cascading reactions.
DKN
Have you ever aggressively traded the US equity markets?
The NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMX are all run by bots. What would
lead anyone to believe that the BTC markets would reject
automation?
What most inexperienced perceive as "a bot" are cascading reactions.
DKN
There may be bots trading US equity markets (and there are), but for the most part these bots have to pay for access. First to be an effective bot you have to pay for colocation. Then you have to pay for connectivity. Then you have to pay for each trade executed.
(You can eliminate/minimise some of these costs but not all).
The problem isn't bots per-se, the problem is bots doing stupid things. And when market access is free, stupid people can do stupid things with impunity.
What's wrong with bots?
Have you ever aggressively traded the US equity markets?
The NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMX are all run by bots. What would
lead anyone to believe that the BTC markets would reject
automation?
What most inexperienced perceive as "a bot" are cascading reactions.
DKN
Have you ever aggressively traded the US equity markets?
The NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMX are all run by bots. What would
lead anyone to believe that the BTC markets would reject
automation?
What most inexperienced perceive as "a bot" are cascading reactions.
DKN
Can you please put a 100/day (or reasonable) trade limit on accounts to stop bots from doing this:
This has been going on for quite some time.
This has been going on for quite some time.
Better yet, he should just impose a cancelation fee for any order that's been on the market for less than 10 minutes. Then the bots can go broke.
For example, an account is allowed 5 free cancelations per day for each filled order. Anything above that will be charged.
Well, IMO, from an enduser's point of view, bots are a good thing in many cases. They provide stability to the market. They keep the buy and sell order prices as close as possible by keeping only the fee value + tiny profit as the spread. However, they eliminate those profit opportunities for others.
As long as those bots are not actually funded with anything but petty cash, they don't provide stability, they only give the false impression of stability. And that is worse than no stability at all.
Well, IMO, from an enduser's point of view, bots are a good thing in many cases. They provide stability to the market. They keep the buy and sell order prices as close as possible by keeping only the fee value + tiny profit as the spread. However, they eliminate those profit opportunities for others.
From an exchange's point of view, it could be a nightmare waiting to happen. All those writes to the database must be costly and probably affect performance somewhat. If something ever goes wrong, you now have to examine and wade through many thousands of transactions. But at least it's a good load test on the system
)
From an exchange's point of view, it could be a nightmare waiting to happen. All those writes to the database must be costly and probably affect performance somewhat. If something ever goes wrong, you now have to examine and wade through many thousands of transactions. But at least it's a good load test on the system
) I am not a trading expert so could someone please outline the negative effects OP's concerns have on users of this market?
Those tiny amounts traded by named bots take up a lot of "screen real estate", so, quite frankly, they are just a pain in the watchacallit.
Also, even after major movements on the market, the bots tend to return the "commonly visible exchange rate" to an unrealistic value. For example, after a larger trade, the bids and asks between 13.3 and 13.7 may be completely wiped out. Actually, no real exchange rate anywhere between those two values is realistic (if at all, it would be on the buy side, so 13.3). The bots may revert to 13.7 easily, leading to the false impression of a higher exchange rate. That would not be an issue for the common trader, but it almost certainly is for the market in general. Volumes on the exchanges are incredibly low and that makes those bots dangerous.
can allow for price manipulation.
I am not a trading expert so could someone please outline the negative effects OP's concerns have on users of this market?
If a cancellation fee isn't appropriate, I would put a throttle in place. Maybe api calls are restricted to once per 5 seconds per api key.
On my system, the fee to place orders is not refunded when you cancel the order. It sounds like a bit of a money grab, but it will ensure that people trade sensibly and place serious orders that they actually expect to get executed.
It's been a while since I've traded on Forex markets, but as I recall, there was always some fee, spread or commission that would get you if you immediately opened then closed an order on any of the exchanges.
Because of this, scalping using bots on Forex is actually rather difficult and most algorithms fail to produce profits. On the other hand, long term traders are also screwed because Forex also closes on the weekends and charges a fee to keep your open orders over the weekend as well.
On my system, the fee to place orders is not refunded when you cancel the order. It sounds like a bit of a money grab, but it will ensure that people trade sensibly and place serious orders that they actually expect to get executed.
It's been a while since I've traded on Forex markets, but as I recall, there was always some fee, spread or commission that would get you if you immediately opened then closed an order on any of the exchanges.
Because of this, scalping using bots on Forex is actually rather difficult and most algorithms fail to produce profits. On the other hand, long term traders are also screwed because Forex also closes on the weekends and charges a fee to keep your open orders over the weekend as well.
BUMP!! KILL THE BOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leave Bender alone!
Since his bot places small bid above the highest bid and small ask below the smallest ask, you can break his bot by placing a mirco-order at .00001 below his ask price.
edit: he fixed to match the highest bid now
edit: he fixed to match the highest bid now
BUMP!! KILL THE BOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think the service should be kept free, because even if they paid for the service, it would not solve the problem posted in the OP
It would, if you had to pay for API calls. Give people an API key, let them do 100 calls per day for free, additional calls prepaid at 0.1 btc / 100 calls.
It wouldn't hurt any real traders with their tools, not even "sensible" bots, but it would most likely stop script-kiddy-gone-wild-bots that usually don't trade larger volumes anyway.
Oh. You didn't say it would be free for the first 100 calls per day
It makes a difference.Your new way lets people keep trading in case there's an emergency. My solution doesn't.
I think I will agree that is a better solution than to jail people within 100 trades.
I think the service should be kept free, because even if they paid for the service, it would not solve the problem posted in the OP
It would, if you had to pay for API calls. Give people an API key, let them do 100 calls per day for free, additional calls prepaid at 0.1 btc / 100 calls.
It wouldn't hurt any real traders with their tools, not even "sensible" bots, but it would most likely stop script-kiddy-gone-wild-bots that usually don't trade larger volumes anyway.
These robots are probably slowing the system down a bit too. Charging just .001 BTC per trading call would fix the problem as well and be simple.
I think the service should be kept free, because even if they paid for the service, it would not solve the problem posted in the OP
It would, if you had to pay for API calls. Give people an API key, let them do 100 calls per day for free, additional calls prepaid at 0.1 btc / 100 calls.
It wouldn't hurt any real traders with their tools, not even "sensible" bots, but it would most likely stop script-kiddy-gone-wild-bots that usually don't trade larger volumes anyway.
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