Topic: Automatic Coin Mixing Idea (Read 9986 times)

Interesting Idea, +1

same here, I will donate 20 BTC for this

Count me in for donations to any serious efforts meeting this spec.

I would like to see this idea implemented.  I am willing to donate BTC to the project if anybody wants to take the bull by the horns and go for it.  I would also rather see it done under the auspices of the Bitcoin Foundation, but that isn't absolutely necessary.

And just so we are clear:


A no fee service.
Hopefully implemented into some bitcoin client.
Is rock solid before rolled out to the bitcoin network.
Is tested on some test network first.




Quantum

all in wallet B after 24 hours??

better that the first person /msg the IRC bot their preferred receiving wallet addresses and gets given address A to deposit to.
the second person /msg the IRC bot their preferred receiving wallet addresses and gets given B
once both wallets are full and have enough confirms, the funds are send to the respective parties..

and also there would be wallet C D for another swap and E F so that it can keep up with demand while people A B are waiting for confirms before receipt.

all the OP of this thread needs to do is make a IRC bot, not mess with the satoshi client

A perfect centralized Tor-compatible web service already exists for hooking up these deals: IRC.

The right client could sit in there and make/accept automated requests to do coin swapping.

It doesn't even need to be part of the Satoshi client.  It could be a standalone program that takes two wallets as input: one full of coins and one virgin wallet, call them wallets A and B.

After spending 24 hours in IRC, all the coins should end up in Wallet B, in nice even granular chunks perfectly sized for swapping.

a far easier thing is to have a server set up with 2 addresses. like an escrow.

address one is displayed. someone inputs 1btc. the address then wont be shown because it contains funds.... instead

address two is displayed. someone inputs 1btc into address 2.  the address now wont be displayed.

the funds of address 2 get sent to the sender of address 1. and vice versa.. all within seconds.(after x confirms lol)

now address 1 is displayed again.

rinse and repeat.

swapping currency 1BTC at a time without risking making a back door in the client. or having to negotiate deals because its a fixed amount swap.

you could also set up a script that asks for the persons clean wallet address before displaying the payment address so that the funds end up in a clean wallet.

leaving them to send their dirty coins to the escrow.. and receive the other persons coins to the clean wallet address. of course more then 2 addresses will be used to cater to more people and a confirmations delay is of standard to avoid double spend scams.. but thats as simple as a mixing service needs to be.

It wouldn't be hard to prototype a coin mixer using the raw transactions API and a centralized web service (accessible via Tor, if you're worried about it recording your IP address).

If you want to do a really good job, though, you'll need:
  + Lots of people participating and/or
  + Lots of time so your mixes are spread out over time

The 'lots of people' will take time, because the mixing code needs very high trust since it'll be spending your coins.

The 'lots of time' might be a practical problem, because the mixer needs your wallet to be unlocked so it can sign mixing transactions.

Somebody should create a working prototype and then for a Bitcoin Foundation grant to fund the web service for a year...

Hear, hear.

Besides an argument like "please stop dreaming" is about as vacuous and irrelevant as they get. If a client is released with this feature it could quite quickly become the 'main' (greater than 50%) client ....

Why stop dreaming about good features that could be technically feasible?

A private p2p payment system was nothing but a dream as little as 4 years ago.  Should Satoshi have stopped dreaming about such a grandiose, idealistic, pie-in-the-sky notion?

Private banking and predictable inflation are the two key qualitative differentiators between Bitcoin and all other currencies.  Faster transactions, less fraud, lower transaction fees, all such things are wonderful but can eventually be imitated by traditional banks, while true privacy cannot.  If eventually the Bitcoin community mistakenly starts believing that privacy features are merely peripheral and not worth allocating resources for improvement, it will significantly increase the chance of Bitcoin being rendered irrelevant.  Personally, I'll put my coins where my mouth is and happily donate to any Foundation (or independent) development initiatives to build full anonymity into Bitcoin or as an altchain/fork.

I really hope coin mixing catch on, my virgin, self mined coins will be worth a tad more.

As for having this done by default on the main client,,, please stop dreaming.

As far as I know, it's only an idea.  I am unaware of any efforts undertaken to turn it into something real.  I have considered doing one by hand as a proof-of-concept: making a forum post saying "here's an address with 25 of my BTC" and "here's an empty address in my wallet" and proposing that someone else produce an incomplete transaction that swaps my 25BTC with theirs, waiting only for me to sign and release it.

Step 2 would be to do the same thing in an IRC channel.

Step 3 would be to write a client that sits in an IRC channel and repeatedly does the same thing with strangers.  (I've never written anything that automates activities on IRC, so while this is something I could do, I probably wouldn't get around to it due to the modest learning curve and other worthwhile priorities)

Mike, do you know the current status of this type of effort?

Brilliant! Not to mention the "making change" analogy! +1

It sounds like you'll never be convinced of your wrongness, so I'm not going to attempt it, except to point out that you have seem to be involved in some kind of self-justifying circular loop where all money has to be proven to be morally correct (like some kind of a reverse Mises regression theorem for the pureness of all money since time immemorable) ... good luck with that approach. Just think of all the slave/whore/drug trading that was done with the gold in Fort Knox that begot your 'pure' dollars ...

Keep your "pure" coins close ... they maybe the only ones left in the fullness of time, but then who would you trade them with?

i do understand money. but u dont understand the world and statistics.

so a quick lesson..

FIAT money was developed for the trade of food and provisions like horseshoes, candles, etc.. u know the morally accepted stuff.. (couple centuries later) drugs only play a small part of it. if you do that statistics research you will see under 2% of money is directly linked to a drugs trade. and 10% of bank noted are tainted with drug residue.

that is the general statistics.. those who actually do drugs will find all their notes get residue on them from their mucky paws touching them. where as a retail store in a upperclass neighbourhood may see only a few percent taint. so don't quote me on the last paragraph as any statistic has to be put into context.

so thats the reality. FIAT has an acceptable taint because its a small ripple in a very big pond compared to the many legitimate uses it has.

but bitcoin has been noted as atleast 30% of trades have a near or direct link to drugs trade. and a higher percentage then that is tainted even after passing hands many times for legitimate trades after the fact.

bitcoin doesn't have big uses to buy food, clothing, cars, pay wages, utility bills. so the dominance of drugs within bitcoin is high, to high to ignore.

if you are worried that when you cash your bitcoins into bitinstant for FIAT. a taint analysis will show the drugs trade and you lose your earnings. here is a perfect solution for you.

help push bitinstant to do a 'litecoin to fiat' service then simply trade your BTC for LTC and then give bitinstant your LTC. that way 0 taint as it is a totally different blockchain...

no need for mixing services or putting vulnerable backdoors into clients for ALICE clients to steal. just swap it for a different currency.

and secondly if you want to hold the stance that all money is tainted then there is no need for programs to mix your coins, coz everything is dirty.. (in your mind)

You don't understand money. Hint: research fungibility.

Your wallet is full of cash that has been used for all sorts of nefarious activities ...  ... feeling slimy yet?

Money is dirty. ... if you want to be pure give it all away to the poor and give your life to god.

Preaching about clean money is an oxymoron.

another way to ruin any chance of getting bitcoin some clean legal rep' to go to mass market.

by making everyones coins dirty......

great for the druggies in the sort term. but not great for any expansion plans into real world markets. not great for bitinstant when every single coin they receive has taint. and banks stop dealing with them. causing all legitimate FIAT conversion services to disappear..

causing bitcoin to be harder to buy into or sell out of.

causing bitcoin to move back 2 years..

atleast think of the wider picture for the whole community and bitcoins future. not your own personal selfish desires to hide your drugg obtained funds.

all i can say is make ur own client and let the druggies swap between themselves and those that dont care about taint that have clean coins can join the mix only if they are given a good profit to outway the risk.. but in no way, shape, or form should this be adopted as a standard practice for all clients and all users of bitcoin.

There could be an option to put less bitcoins into swap then you get from it, and you could earn a small profit out of it payed by someone who for any reason wants to swap his coins. An if it's enabled by default for everyone then there is no such thing as tainted coins because it becomes pointless to try to track it.

my bitcoin activities are all legal.. so why would I be willing to swap my clean coins for tainted ones? especially without at least some discount to cover any risks if SEC do a blockchain analysis on the coins I hold for purposes of AML issues.

its a great idea if proven uncrackable for ALICE grab funds out of wallets without consent. but only illegal traders would use it, as it would only benefit them. leaving them just trading tainted coins, which then makes the point of use redundant.