Topic: Avalon Miner 1166 pro 78 - stoped working after a week (Read 474 times)

Soy nuevo en el foro por eso pido ayuda, en realidad la pagina de google es la que hizo la traducción...

muchas gracias por la ayuda!!!

Hope next time learn how to translate your language and learn how to put your logs inside the insert code tag.

Anyway, according to your logs it detects only 1 hashboard ECHU shows abnormal also ECMM shows abnormal there might be a poor connection between the controller and hashboards.

I would like to suggest is to try to replug or connection between the control board and hashboards also replug the PSU and then test it again

Mä en osaa puhua espanjaa.

Buenas Gente...

Tengo muchos problemas con maquinas AvalonMiner 1166Pro-S-72 algunas ni un día logro minar, si me podrían ayudar intente actualizar software cambio de fuente revisión completa de piezas sin resultado...

  {'ESTADO':[{'ESTADO':'S','Cuándo':276,'Código':11,'Msj':'Resumen','Descripción':'cgminer 4.11.1'}],'RESUMEN ':[{'Transcurrido':256,'MHS av':0.00,'MHS 30s':0.00,'MHS 1m':0.00,'MHS 5m':0.00,'MHS 15m':0.00,'Bloques encontrados': 0,'Getworks':14,'Aceptado':0,'Rechazado':0,'Errores de hardware':0,'Utilidad':0.00,'Desechado':2458388,'Obsoleto':0,'Errores de obtención': 0,'Trabajo local':0,'Fallas remotas':0,'Bloqueos de red':0,'Total MH':0.0000,'Utilidad de trabajo':0.00,'Dificultad aceptada':0.00000000,'Dificultad rechazada':0.00000000 ,'Dificultad obsoleta':0.00000000,'Mejor cuota':0,'Hardware del dispositivo%':0.0000,'Dispositivo rechazado%':0.0000,'Grupo rechazado%':0.0000,'Grupo obsoleto%':0.0000,'Último trabajo':0}
{'ESTADO':[{'ESTADO':'S','Cuando':276,'Código':70,'Msj':'Estadísticas de CGMiner','Descripción':'cgminer 4.11.1'}],' ESTADÍSTICAS':[{'ESTÁD.':0,'ID':'AVA100','Transcurridas':256,'Llamadas':0,'Esperar':0.000000,'Máx.':0.000000,'Mín.':99999999.000000,' MM ID0':'Ver[1166Pro-S-72-21072803_4ec6bb0_211fc46] DNA[02010000452cecc2] MEMFREE[1524528.0] NETFAIL[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] SYSTEMSTATU[Trabajo: En Trabajo, Hash Board: 1 ] Transcurrido[283] BOOTBY[0x11.00000000] LW[0] MH[0 0] HW[0] DH[0.000%] Temp[29] TMax[29] TAvg[29] Fan1[6139] Fan2[6133] Fan3[6137] Fan4[ 6061] FanR[83%] Vo[322] PS[0 1191 1291 21 258 1292 379] PLL0[0 0 0 0] PLL1[0 0 0 0] GHSspd[0.00] DHspd[0.000%] GHSmm[0.00] GHSavg[ 0.00] WU[0.00] Frec[0.00] Led[0] MGHS[0.00 0.00] MTmax[-273 -273] MTavg[0 0] TA[120] Core[A3201] PING[0] POWS[0] HASHS[0 0] POOLS[0] SoftOFF[0] ECHU[1 1] ECMM[ 1] SF0[512 532 552 572] SF1[512 532 552 572] PVT_T0[-273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273] PVT_T1[-273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273-273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273] PVT_V0[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] PVT_V1[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] MW[0 0] MW0[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] MW1[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] ASICCRC0[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] ASICCRC1[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 [OK] FACOPTS0[] FACOPTS1[] ATAOPTS0[--avalon10-frecuencia 512:532:552:572 --avalon10-voltage-level 48 ] ATAOPTS1[--avalon10-frecuencia 640:660:680:700 --avalon10- nivel de voltaje 59 ] ADJ[1] COP[0 0 0] MPO[3200] MVL[87] ATABD0[640 660 680 700] ATABD1[640 660 680 700] WORKMODE[0]','MM Count':1, 'Velocidad inteligente': 1, 'Compensación de nivel de voltaje': 0, 'Máscara de ausencia': 25}25}25}25}25}


Desde ya muchas gracias...

I'll get some logs tomorrow.  The fans and boards are good as far as I can tell.  All fans run perfectly up to max speed.  The boards can hash at 75-78 th, but it seems like the miner reboots randomly.  When it happens, the board temperatures drop to 0 and the fans go to full speed.  It did the same thing one two different pools. 

A few days ago after a reset it ran for 8 hours straight at full hash rate before randomly rebooting.  Its not temperature rated as it is supplied cool air (13-16C from outside). 

The reset was just to try and narrow down any on potential issues.  We have another identical miner running on the same network and it doesn't have the same issues.  Potentially a control board issue?

what makes you think you need a factory reset.

you should show us the logs 🪵

it may be you have 1 shit board that is over heating thus reboot
you may have 1 shit fan thus factory reboot.

please show the logs 🪵 and stop trying a reset.

Hi Guys,

I've been reading over this trying to troubleshoot my personal 1166 pro 78T.

So when the device arrived, used, I discovered it had a faulty PSU.  I replaced the PSU with a brand new direct replacement PSU.  That seemed to get the miner working, but it is rebooting frequently (5-10 times an hour) and the pool never registers any consistent hashing above about 10-20th.  It did have a 7 or 8 hour stint working at a consistent 75ish th/s but I haven't been able to replicate that.

Long story short, I have tried literally every way to factory reset the miner using the PDF on Canaan's website. I have had zero luck. 

Using the RST button just restarts the miner and does not reset the network settings or anything (it continued to mine after restarting with the same intermittent rebooting).  I have also tried the two methods they list in the manual near the end of the PDF in appendix 1 (can be downloaded from the link here: https://canaan.io/product/avalonminer-1166-pro)

Can someone describe the process very clearly, as if a 5 year old was following the instructions?

Thank you

Nope, gotta log in to the static address t change it
.
As far as I can remember, the A10 series all started up in DHCP. Why Canaan has gone back to the way the A9's and lower were using a default static IP is beyond me though I just use an old laptop already setup for the initial boots with my old Avalon/RasPi miners.

When connecting a miner to a PC I don't think there is any gateway involved, he should just set the IP address on and the sub netmask on the PC


Unlikely, it's more likely to be a network-related issue, if you want, I can try to troubleshoot it for you via anydesk, you can PM me.

Yes the Gateway should be set to 192.168.168.1 and PC set to 192.168.168.100

You will lose the connections to rest of your network and the internet (because the router is set to .1.xxx vs .168.xxx) but for configuration that should not matter -- all you want is the connection to the miner so you can change it to use DHCP. Have you tried just directly connected the miner to the PC? Assuming the LAN cable is a crossover type (most are) it should work. If not sure about the cable, just connect the 2 through a switch and it will figure out which are the Tx and Rx lines. Once you do get connected, only change the miner to use DHCP, save then reboot it. Change the PC addresss back to your original and you should now see the miner on the router. Once you see it there, get it's address, log in to miner and then put in the user and pool info.

Ok.  So when I press and hold the FUNC button, it should be defaulted to 168.168.168.168 on 255.255.255.0.  If I go into windows and set a static IP of 192.168.168.100 at 255.255.255.0, I lose all connectivity and cannot connect to either the internet or the miner.  The default gateway is 192.168.1.1, should that stay the same?

It did BRIEFLY work when I connected it directly to the router as opposed to through my network switch, but since then it won't connect, even when I connect directly again.

It just doesn't make any sense why DHCP won't work to connect to pools.  I suppose it could be the controller or hashboards themselves, though they all worked when it did connect, but I have 2 PSU's and it doesn't make a difference which I connect, so at least I think I can rule that out.  I suppose it could be some security setting with Verizon, but I did my best to limit that.

PLEASE use the Code icon in the toolbar to post logs - looks like #. It makes things much easier to read...
As for the pools issue - if you are copy/pasting in the pool and user information make sure there are no spaces added. Quite often when doing c/p there is a space added to the end of the string and miners do not like that.Again - it is not a router address issue. You need to set the PC to use the same subnets the Avalon is on.  In that situation most routers will act as a switch and just pass data from the PC & miner through it.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear.  I can login to the miner interface, BUT it will not connect to any pools.  I did get it to connect a couple times, but then if I reset it, it stops working.  the router firewall shouldn't be the issue, and from the log, it looks like it is able to ping the pool (getworks continue to increase, though I am not sure that is what that represents.)

Where I have other trouble is if I try and use the FUNC button to get it into config mode, I can't access it at its default 168.168.168.168 because my router is at 168.168.1.1.  I THINK there is a way to use routing tables to get it to work, or MAYBE to change my second router (Netgear 7900p) to have a different gateway, but we are now at the limits of my network infrastructure knowledge.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here is the log:

{'STATUS':[{'STATUS':'S','When':0,'Code':11,'Msg':'Summary','Description':'cgminer 4.11.1'}],'SUMMARY':[{'Elapsed':1951,'MHS av':0.00,'MHS 30s':0.00,'MHS 1m':0.00,'MHS 5m':0.00,'MHS 15m':0.00,'Found Blocks':0,'Getworks':65,'Accepted':0,'Rejected':0,'Hardware Errors':0,'Utility':0.00,'Discarded':15357891,'Stale':0,'Get Failures':3,'Local Work':17,'Remote Failures':0,'Network Blocks':7,'Total MH':0.0000,'Work Utility':0.00,'Difficulty Accepted':0.00000000,'Difficulty Rejected':0.00000000,'Difficulty Stale':0.00000000,'Best Share':0,'Device Hardware%':0.0000,'Device Rejected%':0.0000,'Pool Rejected%':0.0000,'Pool Stale%':0.0000,'Last getwork':0}
{'STATUS':[{'STATUS':'S','When':0,'Code':70,'Msg':'CGMiner stats','Description':'cgminer 4.11.1'}],'STATS':[{'STATS':0,'ID':'AVA100','Elapsed':1951,'Calls':0,'Wait':0.000000,'Max':0.000000,'Min':99999999.000000,'MM ID0':'Ver[1166Pro-78-21072802_4ec6bb0_211fc46] DNA[02010000ba74e888] MEMFREE[1420672.0] NETFAIL[388 399 1207 1218 2020 0 0 0] SYSTEMSTATU[Work: In Idle, Hash Board: 0 ] Elapsed[1954] BOOTBY[0x0A.00000007] LW[0] MH[0 0 0] HW[0] DH[0.000%] Temp[23] TMax[23] TAvg[23] Fan1[2219] Fan2[2223] Fan3[1879] Fan4[1906] FanR[25%] Vo[0] PS[0 1199 1 3 0 1240 11] PLL0[0 0 0 0] PLL1[0 0 0 0] PLL2[0 0 0 0] GHSspd[0.00] DHspd[0.000%] GHSmm[0.00] GHSavg[0.00] WU[0.00] Freq[0.00] Led[0] MGHS[0.00 0.00 0.00] MTmax[-273 -273 -273] MTavg[0 0 0] TA[0] Core[A3201] PING[0] POWS[0] HASHS[0 0 0] POOLS[0] SoftOFF[2] ECHU[1 1 1] ECMM[1] SF0[300 300 300 300] SF1[300 300 300 300] SF2[300 300 300 300] PVT_T0[-273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273] PVT_T1[-273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273] PVT_T2[-273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273 -273] PVT_V0[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] PVT_V1[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] PVT_V2[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] MW[0 0 0] MW0[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] MW1[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0] MW2[0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 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FACOPTS1[] ATAOPTS0[] ATAOPTS1[] ADJ[2] Bar[0%] COP[0 0 1] MPO[3200] MVL[87] ATABD0[0 0 0 0] ATABD1[0 0 0 0] ATABD2[0 0 0 0] WORKMODE[1]','MM Count':1,'Smart Speed':1,'Voltage Level Offset':0,'Nonce Mask':25}

As posted aboveThe router is not your problem the address of your PC is. Ja it will disappear from the network that the router is using BUT the router should still act as a switch and let your PC and miner talk to each other. Worse comes to worst, just use a network crossover cable (most are) and directly connect the PC & miner together.

Last things to do after configuring is to change the miner to use DHCP then reboot it, change you PC back to the original address and look for the miner on the router. Should be mining by the time you find it.

I am having almost the exact same issue, but I can't seem to figure out how to access it when it is in configuration mode.  My router has a default gateway of 192.168.1.1, and if I try and set a static IP to 192.168.168.100, it does not work.  Rather I can only set up 192.168.1.100.  Either am completely disconnected if I use the 192.168.168.100 static IP, OR if I set it to something else, like 192.168.1.100, I can't access the miner at 192.168.168.168.  Well, I can't seem to access the miner regardless.

Any suggestions on what I can do?

I finally managed to fix it! 

It was a complexity of issues.

As mikeywith suggested I contacted grace on telegram and she was extremely helpful. It took about 3-4 days for the new PSU to arrive from China and then another 3-4 to get it from customs.

After attaching the new one I had to hard reset the machine using the RST button.
Then in order to re-configure it properly:

• hold on FUNC button
• set up a static IP on my PC - 192.168.168.100
• accessed the machine at 192.168.168.168
• set it up correctly
• manually restart the machine

I believe it was caught in a weird state, which required a hard reset - that's why it didn't start immediately after changing the PSU.
Anyway, it's working properly now.

Thanks all for your comments and suggestions 

Wattage does not matter as long as it's equal or bigger than what your miner needs, so 3600w is good, however, you need to make sure the voltage and the physical set up is the same, I don't know about Avalons but with most of Bitmain gears, you can't mix and match PSUs as they differ not only in size but in the physical design as well, so make sure you ask the seller if the PSU would fit on your miner or not.


Check with grace on telegram (@gracezhou1993), you can tell her I referred you (I get nothing in return) but she will likely help you with the price if you mention my name.

You have quite high expectations, considering it is a single miner.
 I hope they'll be in touch with you within a week.

Yeah, I just did this morning. Still waiting for a response. I expect them to get back by the end of day today. Will post an update once I hear back from them.

Have you tried asking Canaan or your trusted source?