Topic: Avalon pursuing 7nm technology (Read 1909 times)

This is getting better, just have to get that wattage down a smidge. 

And a 43" TV mining at 2.8TH/s.

Great news, it seems that the AvalonMiner 9 series is coming soon.

News article: https://www.cryptouniverse.at/canaan-announces-avalonminer-a9-the-most-efficient-7nm-bitcoin-miner-in-2018/

Impressive specs, 30 Th/s and 1720 W !

No dc to dc not dc to ac.  They exist and you would end up feeding 24 dc into 12 dc output.

They have one that can tie to the grid so it is techniqucally an inverter / converter.

Or a 12 volt output power supply that can use dc or ac.

It is more costly then the straight dc to dc converter. Which would only run in daylight.

You need to understand the value is getting. Up to  20 years of power with no additional cost.

And that it is not for an apartment dweller .  But it is for a person with some land,

If you are concerned about kids fucking with it then fence it like a dog run. After all the miner will be sitting in a doghouse

I will be starting a new thread on this soon. I brought it up here as we will be testing it the next few weeks.

Avalon says they want newer ways of using chips when they make the 7nm well a 400 500 600 watt miner would be good for this idea.

new thread link

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-about-a-solar-power-source-for-pop-one-price-mining-4415357

Unless you have children, any children getting hurt would be trespassing anyway so sucks to them. Same reason I don't understand requiring extensive fencing around a backyard pool to keep other people's kids from drowning themselves - discipline is supposed to do that for me.

Anyway, I think the idea is to have a small enclosure (a doghouse was mentioned?) probably right at the panel, to reduce the need for inverters or long wire runs. Grid tie negates some of that, but if it's not required all you'd need is internet access and nothing else travels more than a few feet. Depending on how panels are rigged, voltages could stay relatively low/safe.

DC to DC inverters?

Frankly, what you wrote isn't even sounding sane.

Trying to come up with a workable explanation:

1) DC to AC inverters
2) haul power off the field to some shed in a shade
3) rectify AC and regulate DC
4) feed miners short distance in the shed

could probably work if you buy recycled/re-manufactured/B-stock parts and still somehow manage to get politically-motivated subsidies for the cost.

I understand that not mounting on the roof would greatly simplify inspection for fire and electrical safety. But you would still require some inspection if planning on connecting to the grid or use the power in the residence/business abutting the field where all that is installed.

On a second thought I even don't think that the inspection would be easier to pass. Fire safety definitely easier; but the electrical safety would be worse: the field mounted electrical stuff would need to be made child-safe. I heard second-hand stories about that type of safety inspections and various lawsuits related to leaving dangerous equipment unattended.

Edit: Additional posts preserved for further reference.

@ yankees yes  I can not put this in my own back yard  I simply have too much shade.

Not enough space for eight panels 2x4 each.

But If I can get an avalon 7nm using 400,500,600 watt settings this is a viable idea.
At the moment the avalon 841 can be reduced just under 1000 watts at  a low power setting.
Ideally  a sha miner  that has 3 settings of 400 500 600 watts  would allow me to build a 4 panel device vs an 8 panel setup
the key to this is I am hoping that  7nm devices under 1000 watts  are built by avalon.

At 2112  my setups  will not involve roof mounts or permits since the mounts will be portable.

off grid allows this in most any state.

So  the avalon 841 with a two year warranty and your setup never stops earning since power is paid up front.

But 8 panels = 16 foot wide and proper sunlight. So your customer base is limited.

the word may covers a lot of bases.

My device won't be doing that.

It would involve panels  and dc to dc invertors .

Most of all it would be a pay one price getting you panels ,invertors, and you use a miner on the market now.

Most people would no have space for my setup since  panels  are 2 by 4 and give 220 watts.  so to run a s9 at 1300 watts you need 7 panels maybe 8.

which is a 4 by 16 foot space.  The idea of  chips built into a panel may work has nothing to do with what I am looking to develop.

your power cost is up front and you get about 1-2 dollars  a day back in power for many years.

would work nicely with an avalon 841 since warranty is 2 years.

you would need space in your back yard to run the gear. panels would install like this
these are 190 watt panels so 8 would do 1 s-9 for 5 hours a day or about 8kwatts a day

This doesn't even look like science-fiction right now, it is more of a fantasy genre.

The solar cell manufacturers can't even reliably build-in the temperature sensors or other environmental sensors. Various radio-equipment manufacturers still can't reliably integrate electronics with antennas, even though the radio equipment isn't required to be maximally exposed to the elements.

Quite a few roof-based solar installs don't survive single year without sprouting leaks or other problems. Having recently seen the quality of workmanship on some of the solar power installations I observe a market regression in quality. Lots of them will require major repairs or will be completely torn down in the coming years.

Currently the flat, thin magnetics that would be required for power regulators are very expensive and are used only in high-end high-power CPU chips.

I'm not the one that would try to prohibit daydreaming, but people need to be aware of the distinction between dreams and reality. Otherwise it gets into the realm of either psychiatry or fraud.

Just don't forget that the support-component costs scale per miner, not per chip, so tacking on controls and power regulation for "a few chips" costs roughly the same as for a few dozen chips which gives the "few chips" miner a much higher initial cost per hash.

You know I'm not a fan of super high power miners, but there are practical limits to how small a miner can be and still be cost-effective.

Buysolar is a forum miner here.

He owns a solar install company.

We want to develop a solar powered mining device.

Building chips into panel may work.

Pay one price solar miner? Buy solar is a solar company I guess

This is a good idea.  A long term rebate never ending.  Just declining a bit.

Avalon would do well with this idea.

my partner buysolar and I are looking to develop a Pay One Price  solar miner.

Your have something here.  Build chips into a panel and mine a bit. Not bad.

This looks like AI and not crypto.
We dont need more mining gear actually. There is a fixed amount of btc released every 10mins iirc. Stronger gear just means everyone has to spend more and upgrade and still get the same amount of btc being released.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canaan-ipo/as-bitcoin-world-wobbles-mining-rig-company-plans-2-billion-ipo-idUSKCN1IN01X

Canaan only made 56million usd profit in the whole of 2017 which is a record year of mining. They made 7 times lesser, meaning 8 million usd profit in 2016. It isnt that much. The market isnt that big.


Their biggest issue would be most people are not interested in mining. The average person will not take the trouble to configure everything or even if it was somehow auto-configured, they would not be willing to pay even abit more for that chip to make like 2-3 dollars a month lol. Not worth the hassle and these people do not want bitcoin. Furthermore, with mining being competitive now, they can only sell those products with mining chips to countries with low electricity rate.

Those interested in mining would want strong efficient miners and not 1 chip in each product lol. Basically, their product has no real demand.


I think the only household like item that would work for mining is if they put mining chips directly into solar cells and it is probably gonna be a small amount of mining chips per solar cell since solar generates so little power. The chips should be working 24/7 and housed waterproof somehow lol. Or better still, do wat tesla does and put solar cells into roofing with the chips. That might actually work, where the solar is located on the roof outside and generates electricity and the chips are located on the inside of the house and creates heat and btc. The good news is that it will never turn unprofitable haha.

A space heater would work better (economically, for the consumer), especially if you used a simple SBC with wi-fi for thermostat controls. The added cost would be divided out among at least an order of magnitude greater hashrate, and the heat wouldn't be an undesired side effect, and the power consumption would already be a necessity.

The cost of a core regulator for one chip is approximately equal to the cost of one chip. But with string design, the cost of a core regulator for ten chips is approximately equal to the cost of one chip. The brain isn't the only part we have to consider the added expense of.

I was going that direction with TV sets. Since 1.4 billion have been sold since 2011.

Space heaters boilers all lack internet.  They do use power a lot. The delongi space heat is 300 600 1500 watts and is free of sound it has oil based radiator but it is fully dumb.

The tv idea will use an extra 5 to 10 watts but many parts are in a smart tv.

Of course the tv will be 1 or 2 chips.  So maybe neither idea works.

Oooohh, nice. 
Is it powered by Avalon, Bitfury or something else..?

Never gonna happen bro, and I think deep down you guys all know the reason already so no point for me beating a dead horse.

If something can make money on a small scale, it can make money on a very large scale.

The other option is to make the chips so commoditised and widely available that it no longer makes sense to invest in scale.

Like say: If every single water heater/boiler mines Bitcoin........ Constituting something like 15% of the Network.

Its still very far out though, and thats why I think we're all sitting pretty at the moment

I'm still working toward S1 refit boards. Should have a much-improved pod available in a few months, and hopefully S1 refit boards (and possibly whole miners built around them) with a new cutting-edge chip in the first part of next year if the guys I'm working with can pull off what they're trying to do.

Maybe it'll be something you like.

look  the ideal thing for me is   a quiet 600 watt miner.  I have space for 100 avalon 841's and I could keep them cool  but I don't have that much cheap power..

On may 31 my rates go up until Oct 1.  16.7 cents and zero benefit for the heat.

Since all the solar power is used. 20kwatts anymore is on the buy expensive power  method. No gear works well at 16.7 + 1.3 to cool or 18 cents a k-watt. I will be turning off all my L3+ on May 31.

      I will be using my avalon 841 and halong t1 in the solar array.  I will mine with a few gpus.
  I will hope to get  buysolar's new idea off the ground blended with the avalon 841's or with 2 L3+  or about 1300 watts.

I'm still operating on the opinion that a small-scale miner, somewhere between single-chip and 1.4KW 85dB industrial gear, is the optimal solution for household-distributed mining. Something whose cost/hash ratio is not painfully unreasonable, that doesn't need to be air-conditioned to stay cool, and that runs quietly and unobtrusively. The only better household miner would be built into something that is supposed to generate heat anyway, but is built such that the hashcard heat elements are easily interchangeable.

Seems like adding overly expensive tiny space heaters to other manufacturers' household devices would be a heck of a lot more of a pain than just building 50-500W quiet miners.

But hey, if they're not going to that means more business for me.

Why do you think I am rooting for this?

Avalon says  they are shifting and expanding from traditional sha 256 mining in their prospectus  they want a bigger base for asic chips.

I figure since 200,000,000 million tv sets were sold for the last 7 years  they may want to go in that direction.

It is their prospectus that said they want more then traditional sha 256 miners not me.

I spent a long time reading it and I thought they may try chips in a tv.
I also know samsung has now made a fairly decent chip and might want to put it in their tvs.
I am looking at this from the viewpoint of the companies not from the viewpoint of  a miner.

  For me as a miner I am stuck until buysolar expands on his solar fields. No new gear will really mean a thing until I get more power at a good price.  But Avalon said they are looking to expanding their field of gear.
I could think they will make a new chip for say LTC or SIA but I don't think so.  So what is something in every country  hmmm tvs' are all over the place. So I thought this could happen. 

 While I did  see the GPU reboot back in 2016 and made some money I did not see the gpu collapse this year. Now that I have expanded my view of mining a bit and Avalon has stated they want to  expand beyond asics for mining btc I thought they may want to do this.
Just a guess on my part. I don't want to underestimate them or other asic companies as they did more then I thought was possible. With asics in the last 10 months.

It stops making sense when the buyer refuses to buy it.

Also, why the hell would you root for a megacorp happily ripping off a billion people?

I never said it made sense for the buyer.

I said it makes sense for samsung

OR - or - you could make a $200 miner with TEN chips in it, and get ten times the hashrate for three times the money and it'd be a lot more likely to pay itself off in less than the entire service lifetime of your television.

Also how many of those 1 Billion TVs have internet connection? How many were cut-rate bargain models from Wal-Mart that can't afford decent components for essential innards, let alone the expense of add-on gimmicks? And how many people could be convinced to pay up the butt for add-on gimmicks with approximately zero value added, and zero fun interactive features to use as the excuse?

I won't say that nobody will do it, because someone will probably do it. But I will keep saying, like I've been saying for years, that the economics make zero sense. I may not know a lot about smart TVs and the whims of the general populace (who are, statistically, idiots) but you gotta admit I know a bit about the economics of small-scale miners. And it doesn't make sense.

Fuck miners my Samsung tv can run the entire block chain.

Not quite true.
But 1 billion TV sets were sold from 2011 to 2015.

Take the usb stick sidehack makes the 1 chip one does not need a fan.

So heat is zero issue. Slap a passive heatsink inside a 50 inch tv and boom heat is solved .

Smart TVs have internet hook up solves that issue.  A rasp pi is more then enough to control the chip.

Smart TVs have built in CPUs .

So internet cost is already in a smart tv
Controller is already in a smart tv
I only need a chip added.
Avalon chip right now can do 130 gh at 13 watts.

If the 7nm does 150 gh at 9 watts my idea is viable.

Cost for a tv company with a deal for Avalon to integrate a chip is going to be under 100 usd.
Maybe under 50. So cost passes to customer. Maybe 75.

Yeah I know 150gh needs a long time to make 75 bucks. but this is going to happen .

Or not I have been wrong many times.

Actually no, the biggest problem with stuffing mining into non-internet-connected devices (like lightbulbs) is that the cost of the controller and power for the chip will exceed the cost of the chip, and both together (plus the power cost of operating it) will exceed the value of mined currency. Especially if it's, say, an LED bulb good for 20 years but your mining chip's efficiency would be obsoleted within about 2.

Connectivity becomes less of an issue with "internet of things" devices because they are already networked. The issue then becomes power dissipation. The most efficient mining chip on the market right now would still kill a decent battery inside a few hours at stock settings, so now you've lost portability of anything with mining installed.

Which means you're limited to internet-connected always-on devices anyway. Integrating mining into your TV, DVD player, smart washing machine and voice-controlled toaster won't be free, and you know there'll be a gimmick markup. But let's look at it this way. Say you have 10W chips built into 10 different devices. Now you have 100W of mining going on in your house at all times. However, that also comes with 10 main regulators and IO circuits. A single 100W miner has one regulator and one IO circuit. It basically becomes buying 10 stickminers (each with associated overhead) versus one consolidated miner. The up-front cost efficiency of the overhead required to run a single chip, plus all the markup you'll get from the chip developer, the integrator, the manufacturer, the distributor and the Best Buy across town will add a few orders of magnitude to the actual cost of the "upgrade" you're buying.

After that comes the issue of pools. Which becomes an even larger issue when you consider every device is probably made by a different manufacturer, with his own software, and most chumps foolish enough to buy into the system would have to make ten different customer service calls to figure out how to use 'em properly.

The same argument has been brought up in the Samsung is Making Chips thread and CK basically had the same thing to say about it.

The problem with mining as part of The Internet of Things isn't the chip (or controller or PSU, althought  that was a good point on leveraging those), its on the "paperwork" to register all those devices.  Will the owner of a Mining TV be able to select the pool they want to mine on?   Maybe.  Will the owner of a Mining Lightbulb be able to do so?  Less likely.  Will the manufacturer hard-code a mining pool into the devices that they run, and that by default profits them?  All S9s come that way...

Solo mining with each device (e.g. a giant Mining Lottery) comes with the wallet problem.  Will the manufacturer generate a wallet for every lightbulb sold and notify the owner when they win a block?  Sound expensive for them, since a million light bulbs might have 1 winner a year (unless somehow all governments shut down all mining farms and only allow lightbulb mining - and that won't happen).

So scratch Solo mining and go back to pool mining.  Again, the devices can be preset to mine for the manufacturer, stealing just a little bit of power from millions of customers, and give them the option to change the pool, set a payout address, etc.  How many people in the general population are going to go through that for a few pennies (or even dollars) a year in income?  Of course, the manufacturer has every incentive to make that as hard as possible, and require revealing as much personal information as they can legally ask (which doesn't seem very constrained today, given all the demograhic information requested out of most feedback surveys (think "win a sandwich if you answer a satisifcation survey" scams). 

21.com had a similar idea a while ago, but seem to have dropped off the map.

I forget who it was that had the idea of a "smart lightbulb" with a miner chip in it, but haven't seen that come to market.

I believe the whole "consumer device with a mining chip in it" concept is a non-starter, due to power usage (forget Green certification) and requirement for Internet access (lots of folks that don't have WiFi of any form or any interest in it) and the additional cost of such an item.

Wait so people will pay $200 for a 150GH miner that cost about $10 to integrate? Sign me up.

Like I said, the chip maker will profit and the TV maker will profit and the TV buyer will lose out.

The closer a miner costs to actual hardware cost, the more viable it's going to be. So miners with one power system, one controls sytem and two hundred chips will always be more cost-effective than miners with one power system, one controls sytem and one chip.

If you want to decentralize with household miners as a service, you need to utilize the waste heat of the miners as a service. Otherwise people are approximately paying for nothing. Stuffing mining chips in arbitrary electronics becomes a waste, but using mining chips for hot air or hot water - things people will be paying to generate heat for anyway - might be viable.



Working on it.

i dunno about mining being incorporated into consumer gear like tvs and such. it would mean it needs network access, something i deny my tvs (and receivers/set top dish box/etc) as there is no need for items like that to need internet in my view.

1st it would lose any "eco friendly" or "green" rating.  (but maybe not if it were switchable, or go on a time schedule..) and who wants a tv with (soon to be obsolete) power sucking heat generating chips in it?  what and where would it mine to and how would the consumer get payouts with this.

im no tree hugger but my house has all led lighting, geothermal hvac/hotwater, we drive high(ish) mpg 4x4 suvs (high for 4x4s anyway), solar panels going in this summer etc. i just prefer to save power and resources when i can.. not because im some super green guy, its because it allows me to use that saved power and resource exactly when and where i want. i prefer well targeted usage of power and resources.  i would rather choose where my watts go, and where my heat sources are located.

if people want decentralized mining there need to be cheap low power miners (well under 100 watts) that run via wifi, are easy to relocate, almost disposable, dead easy to use with preconfigured local pools (say pools located in each major city, choose the one nearest you), then link payouts to a prepaid debit card or something.

Because you are not Samsung.

Let’s see they made a working chip for Halong the t1.

As I understand it they used their own foundry.

Most of the TVs they make are smart TVs with an internet connection.

I simply ask are the questions above all yes for the answer .

Yes .   So how on earth are they not going to do what I suggest?

Btw it is why asics are not so secure since Sony Samsung or someone will do the above.

I just looked at a Samsung 55 inch smart tv 4K price 759. Uses 65watts

So drop in  7nm from Avalon that can do 150 gh at 9 watts. Price the tv at 950 .  You may not want it but a lot will.  Plus every tv will have it.

Avalon cuts a deal with Lg
Bitmain cuts a deal with some Chinese tv
Innosilicon - Halong cuts a deal with Samsung
GMO cuts a deal with Sony

Most likely canaan has a deal lined up with a tv company.  Which is why they are going public.


I found. Stats that show from 2011 to 2015 more then 1 billion sales of TVs happened

See screen shot

https://i.imgur.com/8u3VpYQ.png



seems to me  that Canaan will be looking to get  piece of this

Good luck selling a billion TVs. Are there even a billion households in the world with electricity, internet and TV signal available?

I would not pay a dime extra for a fancy new TV just because it can mine me a nickel a year or whatever. The parts cost of that integration would probably outweigh the revenue generated, by a long shot, even without power draw, but you know the TV manufacturer would put the cost onto the customer. Profitable for the chip manufacturer, probably profitable for the TV manufacturer, not profitable for the TV purchaser.

Been saying it for years, and nothing's changed my mind yet, that dropping single mining chips into whatever the heck electronics is a bad idea.

Well I think mining farms with 1000 841s. Doing 1000 x 14000 gh = 14,000,000gh  or 14,000ph.

Or 1,000,000,000 TV sets with 130gh chip clocked to 100gh = 100,000,000,000 gh or 100,000,000ph.

If you are Avalon what market would you target.

Since Samsung has made decent chips for Halong . I do think for  that Samsung wants a chip in every tv they make.

So if I see this as a direct threat to a mining farm you can be certain that Avalon/canaan sees this as a problem.  I would think they are talking to TV set companies about chipping TV sets

I would think Sony sees Samsung chipping its screens so Sony would want a chip in their TVs as would Lg.

Tvs are everywhere.  Big screens are now cheap and putting in a good 10nm or better yet a good 7nm in larger screens is going to happen.

I didnt catch the link to this PDF before but there is a ton of interesting information about how they handle customers.

Its a great read.

Specifically they taped out 7nm in April 2018 and final products are arriving in the 3rd quarter (p. 118)

They had revenues of 1296 million RMB (203 million USD) in 2017 (page I-32). I agree they have zero intentions to abandon the Bitcoin mining industry. Working on AI accelerator chips is just a natural way to expand their business into other areas.

If the tv has 1 chip doing 10 watts making 100 gh. It could cool passive.

May work on 50 inch TVs but not 30 inch.

I would think 1,000,000,000 x 100 is 100 billion gh that is triple the current network.

Where does the tv exhaust the heat?   No more tv's on the wall as they will eventually burn it.   I do like your thinking though, something along those lines could be useful down the road.

mining with an asic like the avalon 841 is not what I envision for the future of mining.  But I am typing on a mac mini that feeds a 49 inch tv.  If that tv set had about 2 or 3 chips it would earn some coin more or less as an exotic rebate .  Why do I push this idea right now there are more then 1billion tv sets.

This allows for decentralized miners across the world.

Avalon would be foolish to not at least research this. How many chips are in the 841 what does it hash?

Would you call the tv set mining gear ?

this is what I meant. by abandonment or shifting away from mining gear.

answer to the avalon 841 is 104 chips doing 130gh net of 13520 gh

so 1 chip in a 50 inch tv does 130 gh using 13 watts.  this is close to 2 dollars a month.

x 1 billion tvs = 2 billion a month.

No way this does not happen sooner or later.  Samsung is making the Halong chip they must be looking into this idea.

This is why both bitmain and canaan talk about spreading out their line of products.

I have to think it is the wave of the future.

Adding additional complimentary vertical markets and new revenue streams can hardly been seen as shifting away from mining.  Neither company has given any indications that their core business is changing at all.  Now that their core business has made them millions and millions of dollars they have the luxury to strengthen the corporation by adding in diversity to their already significantly profitable and relatively stable revenue stream.  Multi billion dollar business don't shift away from their core business while expanding new business, that would not be smart.

I think that they will shift as bitmain is doing.

A successful business is always expanding and exploring other revenue streams. This is exactly what bitmain is doing with their Sophon AI business. Avalon is just following the industry leader.

Note 2018 second half development of ai

quoted from page 2

"System Products for Other Cryptocurrencies
We currently have an ASIC product for a cryptocurrency other than bitcoin under research and development, for which we have completed front-end IC design, and expect mass production of final products in the fourth quarter of 2018. As of the Latest Practicable Date, we had received pre-sale orders of over RMB53.6 million, subject to the successful test of prototypes. We will continue to develop different types of ASICs to address potential market demand for products with high performance and repeated computing power that can be used for other types of cryptocurrencies that require high computing power.

We began to develop ASICs for AI applications in 2016, and plan to mass produce chips for edge computing, which are known as KPUs, in the fourth quarter of 2018. Target applications include voice and image recognition functionalities in smart home, smart city, smart surveillance, smart toy, and several IoT applications. As of the Latest Practicable Date, we had received pre-sale orders from a variety of customers in a provisional amount of approximately RMB38.2 million in the aggregate, with the actual purchase amount to be adjusted with reference to the then market price of the products after the prototypes have been successfully tested."



quoted from page 7

 "Our future revenue growth, if any, will depend largely on our ability to expand beyond bitcoin mining application and penetrate into new application markets, particularly those ASIC application markets with demand for high performance and computing power or for other types of cryptocurrencies or AI products, all of which are still under development. Each of these markets presents distinct and substantial risks; and
• Our customers and suppliers are based globally, and an increasing portion of our revenues have been derived from sales to customers outside the PRC. As such, changes in government policies, taxes, general economic and fiscal conditions, as well as political, diplomatic or social events expose us to financial and business risks. In particular, changes in policies and laws regarding holding, using or mining of bitcoins could result in an adverse effect on our business operations and our results of operations. Moreover, if any domestic or international jurisdiction where we operate or sell our products prohibits or restricts bitcoin mining activities, we may experience material loss of revenue"


Looks like they may abandon or shift from mining gear

My message brings an update a year later to this thread... but as part of Canaan's IPO announce, 7nm is confirmed for the "second half of 2018", see page 94 of http://www.hkexnews.hk/APP/SEHK/2018/2018051401/Documents/SEHK201805150005.pdf

 Bitcoin price does not care about the difficulty.
 Bitcoin mining profitability is the ONLY thing that does.


 TSMC is talking mid-to-late 2018 for 10nm at the soonest (and that would be very small quantity and very POOR yield).

 They might have a "NVidia Custom" 12nm process before that, per a few rumours about the potential NVidia 2xxx series "refresh", but no hard information on that possibility and anyone but NVidia getting access to that tech would come quite a bit later (and the process is rumoured to only be a SMALL improvement over existing TSMC 16nm process options).

  Again, 2019 at the soonest for anyone other than the "big players" to get access to a new node with a significant performance jump.


 At current price and difficulty, profitability is quite a bit HIGHER on a S9 then it was when they were first released - despite the large diff increase since then.
 There is no need for "new miners" anytime soon to maintain good profitability.

 

There is nothing coming to market this year that would be anything but a small incremental increase. The technology just isnt there yet.

well the diff is catching up quickly, and the consumption too, that $2600 per coin won't last even a year if no new gear will be released

still you have to factor dump and everything else that could happen, i think it's time to release by the end of this year a new product with better efficiency


they might release a 10 nm first, and then in 2020 as you said 7nm, waiting until 2020 to release something new is really a suicide, with the current difficulty trend

I was thinking Dec 2018 at best but if it takes till 2019 or early 2020 I would not be surprised.

I'd bet late 2019 at the EARLIEST - even AMD isn't talking 2018 for 7nm and they are one of the 2 PRIMARY customers for GF.

 More likely 2020.


 Can't build miners on a node that is still in the "experimental testing" stage.

No one is releasing 7nm   0.05 watt gear this year for sha 256.

You are correct that new will be released the ASIC L3+

The better x-11 ASIC

The vega gpu .

All going to get out this year.

At the Moment the s-9 is plenty much doing great at making money.

If 7nm comes out based on this announcement by Avalon it will be more then a year from now.

There is always a need for better gear, it means there is more money to be made by making better miners with higher speeds and efficiencies.
For a short amount of time anyway, until everyone has the new miners, then it will be a wash.

Same old, same old

Maybe late 2018 for release.

No need for better gear with coins at 2600.

Looks like Caanan intends to go with GF or Samsung for their next gen then, as TSMC isn't going to be working on 7nm for a while and Intel uses all of their foundry space internally.

Noticed this lil tidbit in a press release announcing Proof of Existence being acquired by Canaan.

http://www.coindesk.com/press-releases/canaan-acquires-proof-existence/