Bad way of storing keys?/ | Bitcointalksearch.org

hugeblack

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Quote from: Z390 on March 28, 2022, 12:59:56 AM

I've sheltered my private key and recovery seed in a m.2 memory on my PC and I take it offline (remove from PC) but someone said its a bad idea, this person said that people have forfeited private keys to HDD before and they never recover their BTC, is this true?

Why do you want to keep the private key? You have a seed which generates many private keys and many addresses so instead of digitally keeping one private key for one address you can keep 12 words.
These words are easy to write and therefore it is better that you record them on paper, steel or other methods of preservation.

Keeping your private key digitally leaves you with only one chance to get your money which is your memory working efficiently and files are there. Creating more copies will reduce the security of your private keys as it is impossible to remember or difficult to write on paper.

YellowSwap

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I wrote down my recovery seed in a book and I keep that book away from people, since I live alone I don't have to worry about someone opening the book to get my seed, no one even knows that I'm into crypto.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Z390 on March 28, 2022, 12:59:56 AM

I've sheltered my private key and recovery seed in a m.2 memory on my PC and I take it offline (remove from PC) but someone said its a bad idea, this person said that people have forfeited private keys to HDD before and they never recover their BTC, is this true?

The best backup you can have now is seed phrase, the modern way of generating wallet rather than having private keys which are written in characters that would be hard to backup on paper or steel sheet. There are ways professionals can backup the way you mentioned, but they will prettily do it offline on airgapped device and still having replica of it. But why not just generate seed phrase (HD wallet) and have the backup of HD wallet instead of the non-HD option you go for.

FirmWars

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HDD And other PC components always have a life span imagine you keep your recovery seed on this memory and after 10 years the memory isn't working again, I don't buy the idea of storing keys on HDD and SSD it's not safe for long term.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: Z390 on March 28, 2022, 12:59:56 AM

I've sheltered my private key and recovery seed in a m.2 memory on my PC and I take it offline (remove from PC) but someone said its a bad idea, this person said that people have forfeited private keys to HDD before and they never recover their BTC, is this true?

HDD has less life span and any physical damage is almost impossible to make it work so either users have to spend a lot to recover the data stored or they choose to abandon it. And any digital storage can lead to loss of data that is why its always suggested to have the hard copy of private key in a container which is resistant to water and fire.

ariinv

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We advise to our contributors keep a hand written or printed copy in a safe or vault, those kept just digital copy are not 100% secure!

dkbit98

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Quote from: Z390 on March 28, 2022, 12:59:56 AM

I've sheltered my private key and recovery seed in a m.2 memory on my PC and I take it offline (remove from PC) but someone said its a bad idea, this person said that people have forfeited private keys to HDD before and they never recover their BTC, is this true?

Storing and moving recovery seed and private keys on m.2 and other flash memories is a bad idea, because you can't really delete content of your drive even if you click delete and format.
That is why SSD drives have the option of secure deletion with algorithm adding random values over, or some drives can have encryption option for improved security.
I would generally prefer using some offline old fashion way for saving your seed phrase, like regular pen and paper or more durable stainless steel metal.

Quote from: BitMaxz on March 28, 2022, 05:10:30 PM

...

All this stats for hard drives depends mostly on usage for ssd, and storing conditions for hdd, but in reality I know drives are surviving much more than those stats are showing.
I would still not use any of them for reasons I mentioned previously.

BitMaxz

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Take note according to Google M.2 memory has 8 to 10 years of life so if you are planning to hold them for more than that you must make a physical backup.

A paper backup or stainless or metal to backup your seed phrase physically you can buy Cobo vault or keystone tablet as a common steel backup tool to hold your keys or backup seed phrase for more than 10years.

I have actually HDD with old coins and tokens but can't able to revive it all of my HDDs are 2nd hand so I do not know what will be the exact lifespan of HDDs but according to Google, it's around 5 years.
Not good to have an HDD with coins holding it for a long time because there is a big possibility that they will die in the future without recovering your coins from your HDD. Unlike having a physical metal/stainless steel backup.

Marvelman

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Most memory devices tend to fail for any reason. Storage media sold to consumers is not actually made for long-term storage. They don't last forever, and if there is any fault in their design or if the storage devices wear out over time, they tend to fail. This is true of all memory types and has been known to happen even with the most reliable and strongest memory chips. So, if something can go wrong, there is a good chance it will.

When looking back at the past, we can see that information that has endured for thousands of years has been carved into stone or made into clay tablets. This information can be viewed now as it would have been when these pieces of information were originally made. Therefore, we can conclude that the simplest storage methods are often the most reliable and robust long-term storage.

So, if you want your stored information to last, use some low-tech recording method. For example, engrave it on a metal plate and store it in a safe place. A safe place is any location where you know it won't be accidentally damaged or found by children, roommates, friends or thieves.

uchegod-21

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Quote from: S3300 on March 28, 2022, 01:44:04 PM

Either HDD, SSD or M.2 memories they can spoil at any time even if you keep them in a safe place for many years to come, I don't like this idea at all, carving your recovery seeds on stainless steel is even more safer than storing it on PC components.

There are many ideas to save seed phrases. Some are more reliable and some are less reliable. At times we tend to complicate the process of saving these phrases because we are afraid of hackers, but at the end of the day hackers will not near it, but on our own we can no longer reach it because of too much complications.
Any good method anyone wants to use, he should be able to have a good backup so as to be able to get it when it is needed.

S3300

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Either HDD, SSD or M.2 memories they can spoil at any time even if you keep them in a safe place for many years to come, I don't like this idea at all, carving your recovery seeds on stainless steel is even more safer than storing it on PC components.

Dunamisx

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Quote from: Z390 on March 28, 2022, 12:59:56 AM

I've sheltered my private key and recovery seed in a m.2 memory on my PC and I take it offline (remove from PC) but someone said its a bad idea, this person said that people have forfeited private keys to HDD before and they never recover their BTC, is this true?

You have to be careful on the means of handling your keys on storage devices because if the keys stored where generated offline and still stored on the same computer it can be accessed if the following procedures are followed on this link https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.easeus.com/amp/storage-media-recovery/recover-data-from-dead-laptop-notebook-hard-drive.html also you can encrypt your keys on a metallic sheet, with the use of a hardware wallets and ensure to completely have a back up for any means of storage you adopt which can only be accessed by you.

bill gator

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Quote from: witcher_sense on March 28, 2022, 04:18:48 AM

It is definitely not a good idea to use solid-state drives as cold storage because, according to the JEDEC standard for consumer SSDs, any data written on this type of SSD must be readable for at least one year at a power-off temperature of 30^oC. That basically means that, after one year of you storing your private keys offline on the said disk, there is no guarantee that the data you put on it will still be accessible.

I'm going to do some more reading about this, but assuming what you're saying is true then thank you for teaching me something new and useful today. I have never heard of anything like this, and you would think that this would be a very important factor to consider when purchasing storage hardware. I have computers that have sat in the attic for years, and when I go to boot them up I expect my data to still be there.

I don't have a lot of merit to be throwing around these days, but even if I'm being stingy you deserve one for teaching an old dog new tricks.

passwordnow

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Always create a back up, whether you put it on an m2 storage or sata hdd or any of a kind, as long as you're aware that there's a possibility that you may accidentally damage it while keeping it.
I've got backups through written form and as well as in offline storages but never connected it to the web. It's all about how you're going to think of any possibility that may happen and how broad you keep it on different ways of backing it up.

witcher_sense

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Quote from: Z390 on March 28, 2022, 12:59:56 AM

I've sheltered my private key and recovery seed in a m.2 memory on my PC and I take it offline (remove from PC) but someone said its a bad idea, this person said that people have forfeited private keys to HDD before and they never recover their BTC, is this true?

It is definitely not a good idea to use solid-state drives as cold storage because, according to the JEDEC standard for consumer SSDs, any data written on this type of SSD must be readable for at least one year at a power-off temperature of 30^oC. That basically means that, after one year of you storing your private keys offline on the said disk, there is no guarantee that the data you put on it will still be accessible. For long-term offline storage, it makes sense to use less technically complex and therefore more durable means such as stainless steel or other refractory stainless metals. The information engraved on them can last for decades or centuries, which is well enough to preserve it for subsequent generations.

Useful links:
https://www.jedec.org/sites/default/files/Alvin_Cox%20[Compatibility%20Mode]_0.pdf
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/potential-ssd-data-loss-after-extended-shutdown
https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-SSD-store-data-without-power-Can-data-be-recovered-from-SSD

PrivacyG

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 28, 2022, 01:17:27 AM

Additionally I'd say digitally storing your private keys is not a good idea because of possible damage to the medium. It could be a lot of things from physical damage and electrical damage to data decay. At least this memory should not be your only storage and you should keep other forms of backup.

This. I had my USB sticks, microSD cards and CD's damaged and redeemed unusable even without ever even touching or handling them. I understand to some an encrypted microSD sounds good, but to me it is a risk I am not willing to assume.

A more secure way in my opinion is using washers. See this topic https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/securing-your-seed-phrase-with-washers-5389446. This method ensures safer long term storage without the issues of getting the medium damaged. Safer, long as you store it properly.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

tranthidung

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You can check more about Air-gapped wallets.
[Guide] Secure air-gapped crypto wallet storage method
Always make backups for your wallet and make sure you check that your backups are usable
It's painful if you make backup with mistakes and it is unusable for recovery later

pooya87

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If the PC you used when creating that private key and moving it to the memory was online at the time or any time before that, you can not consider your memory completely safe or cold storage. A secure cold storage is a storage that was created on an air gap system which is basically a PC that has never been connected to the internet.

Additionally I'd say digitally storing your private keys is not a good idea because of possible damage to the medium. It could be a lot of things from physical damage and electrical damage to data decay. At least this memory should not be your only storage and you should keep other forms of backup.

Z390

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I've sheltered my private key and recovery seed in a m.2 memory on my PC and I take it offline (remove from PC) but someone said its a bad idea, this person said that people have forfeited private keys to HDD before and they never recover their BTC, is this true?

Topic: Bad way of storing keys?/ (Read 237 times)