Topic: BADecker can do this ... (Read 657 times)

-snip-

Don't want to get too off topic here, and I like your enthusiasm, but I would disagree strongly with the implementation of such an idea.

Merit is already treated by many as a "I like this/I agree with this" button rather than a "This is a constructive post/This adds to the topic at hand, regardless of whether or not I agree with it" button. A de-merit button would be treated the same, with many users using it on posts they do not like or disagree with, rather than posts which are simply spam, zero value, etc. There is no doubt people would use de-merit against users who accuse them of something, give them red trust, or simply disagree with them. I also have no doubt that there would be merit circles who would conspire to heavily de-merit users they do not like.

Having such a set up essentially turns us in to an echo chamber like Reddit, where the most popular opinions are the most visible, regardless of whether or not they are actually correct.

We already have (multiple) rules against this sort of behavior from BADecker. We just need to actually enforce them.

Couldn't have said it better myself, I understand the reason why de-merit could possibly be a solution, however, it won't be treated correctly, which is entirely understandable for the reasons o_e_l_e_o mentioned. On top of that, it could potentially be abused from higher tier members to lower ranked ones that may not like or agree with, resulting in a bullying situation, something we're certainly not striving for.

My two cents, moderate sections with controversial subjects, such as Politics & Society, handle any reports made fair and rightfully, without taking advantage of the moderator position (another user already volunteered to do it), encourage more self-moderated threads to avoid BADeckers, as an effort for thread creators to avoid spam and shitposting, not to enforce their opinion. It's totally fine by me to have an opposite opinion about Covid-19 or anything else, however, I can show numerous examples of BADecker and a few other users who share similar characteristics with him, trashing my threads.

o_e_l_e_o

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-snip-

Don't want to get too off topic here, and I like your enthusiasm, but I would disagree strongly with the implementation of such an idea.

Merit is already treated by many as a "I like this/I agree with this" button rather than a "This is a constructive post/This adds to the topic at hand, regardless of whether or not I agree with it" button. A de-merit button would be treated the same, with many users using it on posts they do not like or disagree with, rather than posts which are simply spam, zero value, etc. There is no doubt people would use de-merit against users who accuse them of something, give them red trust, or simply disagree with them. I also have no doubt that there would be merit circles who would conspire to heavily de-merit users they do not like.

Having such a set up essentially turns us in to an echo chamber like Reddit, where the most popular opinions are the most visible, regardless of whether or not they are actually correct.

We already have (multiple) rules against this sort of behavior from BADecker. We just need to actually enforce them.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: suchmoon on May 29, 2022, 08:29:13 PM

[...]

This sounds like a good idea, although I have a doubt, but it's not the core of the problem. The thing is, this proposal, disappointingly, reveals that this forum lacks on implementing these few rules it has. If a person plagiarizes, posts death threats, creates literally zero quality content and irritates the rest in a dozen other ways, we shouldn't just ignore him because there's a "Shitposter" below his username.

He has to to get banned.

1miau

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Quote from: suchmoon on May 29, 2022, 08:29:13 PM

I totally agree, maybe you know about King Scorpio, same league like BADecker.

Oh yes, of course.

It would be a decentralized way how to solve the issue, don't require action from mods, would discourage bad posting and would be a 100% community driven consensus.

This has a potentially nasty side effect of silencing unpopular opinions. Perhaps some additional limits would be needed. Similar to how you can't send more than 50 merits per month to a single user, a limit of 5 or 10 demerits per user per month should apply.

+1
Something like that.
Before introducing it, a detailed community discussion would be beneficial where various points could be evaluated.
By doing so we could see if there's community support for it or not.

suchmoon

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I totally agree, maybe you know about King Scorpio, same league like BADecker.

Oh yes, of course.

Quote from: suchmoon on May 29, 2022, 09:37:33 AM

It would be a decentralized way how to solve the issue, don't require action from mods, would discourage bad posting and would be a 100% community driven consensus.

This has a potentially nasty side effect of silencing unpopular opinions. Perhaps some additional limits would be needed. Similar to how you can't send more than 50 merits per month to a single user, a limit of 5 or 10 demerits per user per month should apply.

But I doubt any such changes are forthcoming.

1miau

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Quote from: philipma1957 on May 29, 2022, 10:22:17 AM

Have you reported the posts?

I can't speak for my cycle-mate, but I have reported BADecker's posts with all sorts of violations, including plagiarism. The only thing that is handled properly is multiposting, everything else is ignored.

I totally agree, maybe you know about King Scorpio, same league like BADecker. He's a troll from our german section but luckily he's not much active anymore because he's busy with his failed shitcoin (?). But we have some additional idiots, also from a shitposting perspective.
There was already borderline plagiarism and the affected account was told how to quote properly but he just doesn't care. There are tons more of derailing comments. We really don't need such negative-value trolls and should find a decetralized solution to discourage them. Could also be used for shitposters.

We should really think about how to solve that issue and a decentralized solution to get rid of their troll- and spamposts could be some sort of a de-merit system.
Yes, it has been discussed very controversely but if we do it right, we could get rid of some problems caused by low-quality posting, trolls, topic-derailing and similar.

How could we achieve a fair solution, difficult to get abused:

Peg sendable de-Merit to earned Merit. For every earned Merit, 0.25 spendable de-Merit will be earned and earned de-Merit could be spent for low-quality posts, misleading content or troll spam. Pegging de-Merit to earned Merit would make sure to allocate a steady flow of spendable de-Merit to accounts knowing how to evaluate quality posts (and shitposts).
If a low-quality post receives 1 de-Merit, his Merit score will be reduced by 1 and so on
Ranking down is activated
Negative total Merit count = posting disabled (new Forum Rank "Shitposter" )

It would be a decentralized way how to solve the issue, don't require action from mods, would discourage bad posting and would be a 100% community driven consensus.

DaveF

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...
Btw as out there as badecker can be every once in a while he drops a golden nugget of info.
...

Which is 100% not relevant due to his plagiarism.
For whatever reason the mods due not want to stop him.

Probably for the same reason that the altcoin / tokens sections are allowed to fester the way they do.
More posts = better to sell ad space and keep the forum up in google and other rankings.

Just my cynical view.

-Dave

ChiBitCTy

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Quote from: PrimeNumber7 on May 29, 2022, 12:56:54 PM

Quote from: Welsh on May 29, 2022, 06:50:02 AM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 29, 2022, 06:19:56 AM

I don't think it should be that difficult. There are plenty of people in P&S who post absolute nonsense, but at least manage to mostly stay on topic and can make a coherent post, even if the content of that post is moronic. And then there are people like BADecker and Tash who just post low quality and off topic trash which contributes absolutely nothing to any thread.

We delete off topic posts and posts which add nothing in other boards. Why not P&S?

I do agree somewhat, there's definitely a few cases of pretty straight forward off topic replies, or just genuinely low quality posts. Although, I do think you need someone in the P&S section that probably doesn't care all too much about politics, otherwise personal beliefs, and views can get in the way.

FH was a left-wing Bernie bro, and IIRC was a supporter of communism. That is far from moderate, and he did care about politics.

IMO, it is more important for the P&S mod to be able to moderate in a way that is viewpoint neutral, and will not allow his views on topics of discussion interfear with his decision making.

As I stated he was a buddy of mine and while he was definitely further left than I agree with, he is a good person who absolutely did not support communism. He just believed in bigger government than I see being ideal personally. Theymos and him didn’t agree on much, but still hired him which imo says a lot about them both. I had talks with HF about this very topic and I believe he truly tried to remain impartial as possible. It stressed him out with all the meta threads against him as it was always “HF is impartial etc etc”. Truth is mods delete stuff all the time. I’ve had plenty of stuff deleted I didn’t agree with but it’s a tough job and I know they do their best.

However I agree with you. I think, as Loyce always says, a Sweden type would prob be ideal. Then no one can
claim political bias in Meta.

Daniel91

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I know BADecker very well and I can say that he is a very passionate person when he participates in a discussion, and that when he starts explaining or proving something he never gives up.
This applies not only to discussions in the PS part of the forum but also in the offtopic, more specifically on religious topics.
Take for example this topic I started in offtopic 8 years ago, and which I thought would last a couple of days or weeks: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.10360
Thanks almost exclusively to BADecker, who had to discuss with every member of the forum who would disagree with his opinion in this topic, this topic has been active for 5 years and already has 519 pages Grin

Given the decline in activity on this forum in recent times, forum administrators may not have anything against such discussions that keep the forum alive, but I see that in this stage, many members simply gave up the discussion with BADecker in this topic.
What the solution is and whether something needs to be done, I’m really not sure and I don’t know.
This is probably more of a question for forum moderators.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: Welsh on May 29, 2022, 06:50:02 AM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on May 29, 2022, 06:19:56 AM

I don't think it should be that difficult. There are plenty of people in P&S who post absolute nonsense, but at least manage to mostly stay on topic and can make a coherent post, even if the content of that post is moronic. And then there are people like BADecker and Tash who just post low quality and off topic trash which contributes absolutely nothing to any thread.

We delete off topic posts and posts which add nothing in other boards. Why not P&S?

I do agree somewhat, there's definitely a few cases of pretty straight forward off topic replies, or just genuinely low quality posts. Although, I do think you need someone in the P&S section that probably doesn't care all too much about politics, otherwise personal beliefs, and views can get in the way.

FH was a left-wing Bernie bro, and IIRC was a supporter of communism. That is far from moderate, and he did care about politics.

IMO, it is more important for the P&S mod to be able to moderate in a way that is viewpoint neutral, and will not allow his views on topics of discussion interfear with his decision making.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Poker Player on May 29, 2022, 11:19:45 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on May 29, 2022, 10:22:17 AM

Personally I would be willing to modify that section.

What is the pay? Theymos can pm me if he wants to let me modify it.

I am willing to give theymos my kyc etc.

Btw as out there as badecker can be every once in a while he drops a golden nugget of info.

So at whomever is in charge of moderators please contact me via pm if you want me to modify that section.

I take it you mean "moderate", not "modify", but I don't know if it is equivalent where you live in the US.

What about modifying or moderating the WO thread? You are a regular there, and suchmoon was complaining recently, as you may have seen.

My iPad auto correct is crazy I will correct the error.

I thought about modding a few times. If I do mod.

It would need be in threads/boards I do not post much in.

So the btc mining the alt coin mining and the wo/economic area I would not want to do.

BTW the wo thread can be very off the wall at times.

Well I will see if theymos and staff want me to try on P+S board.

Poker Player

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Quote from: philipma1957 on May 29, 2022, 10:22:17 AM

Personally I would be willing to modify that section.

What is the pay? Theymos can pm me if he wants to let me modify it.

I am willing to give theymos my kyc etc.

Btw as out there as badecker can be every once in a while he drops a golden nugget of info.

So at whomever is in charge of moderators please contact me via pm if you want me to modify that section.

I take it you mean "moderate", not "modify", but I don't know if it is equivalent where you live in the US.

What about modifying or moderating the WO thread? You are a regular there, and suchmoon was complaining recently, as you may have seen.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Personally I would be willing to moderate that section.

What is the pay? Theymos can pm me if he wants to let me modify it.

I am willing to give theymos my kyc etc.

Btw as out there as badecker can be every once in a while he drops a golden nugget of info.

So at whomever is in charge of moderators please contact me via pm if you want me to modify that section.

edit sp as pointed out by Poker ♦️ Player

suchmoon

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Quote from: Lucius on May 29, 2022, 08:22:50 AM

Have you reported the posts?

I can't speak for my cycle-mate, but I have reported BADecker's posts with all sorts of violations, including plagiarism. The only thing that is handled properly is multiposting, everything else is ignored.

If 10 or 20 members report these posts as plagiarism in the right way (with the source), then I don’t see how anyone could ignore it. That member cannot be above the rules, even though P&S is one of the boards that is obviously completely out of the focus of the administration.

See above. And I don't think any proper report from any member should be ignored.

Lucius

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Quote from: Lucius on May 29, 2022, 08:22:50 AM

If 10 or 20 members report these posts as plagiarism in the right way (with the source), then I don’t see how anyone could ignore it.

I don't think "voting" by sending in many reports helps.

It may not always help, but I know from experience that some of my plagiarism reports only got handled when someone else reported the same post. If 10 people with a high reputation agree on something it will have a much bigger effect than if there is only one member behind it.

Ultegra134

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If I remember correctly, I had reported a few of his posts in the past, but to no avail. He'd ruin any threads I made regarding Covid or similar, along with the other conspiracy theorist, Tash. I don't really bother if you have a different opinion than mine, but constantly posting gibberish and spamming my threads is annoying to say the least. Because of these two users, I had locked a topic of mine due to the spam it had accumulated, just by those two. From now on, I'll resort to creating self-moderated threads, a feature I had completely forgotten about.

o_e_l_e_o

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Have you reported the posts?

I'm certain I reported the first one, otherwise I wouldn't have known about it to reference it in this thread. I gave up reporting on P&S a long time ago though when it was clear that it was a waste of time.

I always assumed the rules were meant for threats against forum users only:

I fall firmly in to the second post I linked, as I'm sure a handful of other forum users do too. That post is direct threat that I should be "hunted down and executed", in his words.

Advocating to change this, no matter what the subject is, is just dumb.

All of BADecker's posts could be described as dumb, but that is besides the point. Being dumb isn't against the rules. Off topic spam, zero value posts, plagiarism, and death threats are.

LoyceV

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Quote from: BADecker on November 03, 2021, 06:04:22 PM

What about his plagiarism?

This post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60185855
Same copy paste here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56231030
And here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.55119252

All without any source provided, all taken from this Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1210703194252357637

Have you reported the posts?

8. No threats to inflict bodily harm, death threats.

As for the second post: changing laws to make past events a crime goes against everything a decent society should stand for:

Quote from: Lucius on May 29, 2022, 08:22:50 AM

Or his hundreds of posts telling people to drink bleach?

By the age someone can read, I'm hoping they're smart enough not to believe everything they read on the internet.

If 10 or 20 members report these posts as plagiarism in the right way (with the source), then I don’t see how anyone could ignore it.

I don't think "voting" by sending in many reports helps.

I barely read Politics & Society, and clearly I don't miss much. It's also much easier to keep a Switzerland image by not engaging in political discussions.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: icopress on May 29, 2022, 07:55:55 AM

I still can't get my head around how it is possible to be such a callous and brainless guy.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 29, 2022, 08:47:00 AM

What's up with BADecker and why is he here anyway? 96.2% of his posts belong to P&S and Off-Topic. I don't blame him for not talking about bitcoin often; it's obvious that he doesn't know what is he talking about.

Here's the thing: He's allowed to be callous, to be brainless, to post exclusively in P&S, and be completely misinformed about bitcoin. He can say things which piss people off, and he can say things which are provably incorrect, both of which he does regularly. None of that is reason to ban him, though.

But his repeated and blatant disregard for the few rules we have is. I've seen much less egregious cases of off topic spam being deleted, and I've seen much less egregious cases of plagiarism being banned. Why does he get special treatment?

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

What's up with BADecker and why is he here anyway? 96.2% of his posts belong to P&S and Off-Topic. I don't blame him for not talking about bitcoin often; it's obvious that he doesn't know what is he talking about. Also, does anybody know why he ends each post with a "Cool" smiley?

Far better users have been banned for far less. But BADecker continues to be unmoderated, for reasons unknown.

Probably because there's no moderation in neither of the sub-forums he frequents.

Lucius

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Quote from: icopress on May 29, 2022, 07:55:55 AM

What about his plagiarism?

If 10 or 20 members report these posts as plagiarism in the right way (with the source), then I don’t see how anyone could ignore it. That member cannot be above the rules, even though P&S is one of the boards that is obviously completely out of the focus of the administration.

I still can't get my head around how it is possible to be such a callous and brainless guy. I could report that plagiarism by creating a post in the appropriate thread, but what about the ethical side? I am an interested person and some may think that my post will be biased.

Plagiarism or any other violation of the rules of the forum and their reporting should have nothing to do with any personal disputes or who is of which nationality. Just use the "report to moderator" button and report that post as plagiarism, and if enough of us do that, I don’t believe anyone will be able to ignore that. Vires in Numeris

icopress

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