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Topic: BakCoin (was: decline in listening nodes) - page 4. (Read 2913 times)

legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1010
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We don't control that website, and thus don't control that metric.  Fudders are gonna fud.  It's what they do.

Hmm... that website doesn't really seem anti-bitcoin.  And if you're gonna write all that code you must be at least a little interested.  I was simply thinking someone here might know the owner and ask nicely. :-)

I ment that we can't take it down, and detractors are going to find a way to replicate this even if it didn't exist.

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And the membership of this forum crossed 10K months ago, but there is no chance that the ownership of this forum is going to start counting IP addresses.  That wouldn't be any more relevant a metric anyway.  Not only do not all members run their own client, much less one full time; there are many more people who use bitcoin who don't have memberships.

of course, but one can guess-estimate the number of non-forum members; just like radio stations estimate listeners from request phone calls... and is really the derivative that matters not the value anyway.

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Again, the growth or decline of the number of listening-but-not-mining clients is irrelevent to the function or resilence of the bitcoin network whether they are on the open Internet or some PVN.  Beyond some minimum number required to support the bandwidth of the network as a whole, that is.  The very fact that we can't know how many (or where are) all the network's nodes happen to exist is, itself, a contribution to it's resiliance.  An attacker can DOS the pools or exchanges, because he can find out it's IP address and a government agent can steal a server because he can find the farm that holds it; but these things cannot stop the bitcoin network for no other reason that you cannot kill what you cannot catch.  At worst, these kinds of events simply disrupt the network temporaroly and force more users towards Tor and I2P.

I'm not worried about technical disruption of bitcoin but social -- after all there still aren't many merchants accepting it.  BTC could just fade away... statistics showing a growing user base would convince merchants to offer it as a payment mechanism.  You are right, the inability to fully count/control the members is a great strength which is why I said "approximate numbers".  Hard numbers would be great, but if those are not available, it would still be useful to have the same kind of partly-fabricated numbers that businesses have used since the beginning of... well the beginning of VCs probably... to justify their business model.



Whatever will be will be.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283

This is a good point, and I respect that you have made it.  It is actually related to a part of my comment that you snipped out where I called attention to the very different nature of Bitcoin vs. others in terms of 'centralized control'.

Anyone who cares to do something other than wave the pom-poms may notice that I have a great deal of respect for and hopes for Bitcoin even in the 'worst' of circumstances and am certainly not immune to recognizing the strong points which it has.


Fair enough.  Let's assume for a moment that your not trolling, and that your concerns are valid.

Do you have any suggestions for improving the protocol?

Boy...not really.  My suggestion (which I made earlier) is to try to leverage Bitcoin's success in development of an architecture which really focuses on scalabity (while retaining the 'p2p' nature as at least I classify it.)  The key would be that a common vision is shared between the solutions and there is general cooperation.

This could take the form of simple sharding of a very Bitcoin-like protocol in which the shards are manageable at an entry-level and value is transferred between shards in more of a 'backbone network'.  An individual could still do a lot of transactions as today by choosing their shards carefully, particularly if their interaction was with vendors who were 'in' a lot of shards.

A solution which I have put some thought into is to have an extremely stripped-down and lightened up varient of Bitcoin with some extensions which could realistically be expected to live in perpetuity and would serve as a trusted 'reserve currency' upon which shards of various form are built.  I started to describe some of my earlier 'thought experiments' as http://bakcoin.org if anyone is interested.  The advantage of such a solution is that it could perhaps avoid the need for a 'backbone network' at all.  Maybe.

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