Bakkt is done? | Bitcointalksearch.org

whyrqa

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Quote from: wozzek23 on February 25, 2020, 03:54:16 PM

Some of you are fond of expecting too much from this cryptocurrency market but it shouldn’t be like that. I see some people and every little event they will tag it as a catalyst for the next bull run. Just like earlier this year on February 14th, someone was asking a question here whether the Valentine day is going to be leading us to another increase in price.

Why do people keep acting this way lol? That last year I knew that there is not going to be anything big about Bakkt being launched despite that a lot of people kept hyping it too much and coupled up with some predictions that are coming from influencers and experts, they all believed that bull run was going to be last year when Bakkt is launched. But that day can and passed and nothing special about it.

The fact is that after 2017, when the cryptocurrency market showed the highest rates, more than 2 years have passed and each cryptocurrency user hopes to see the same cryptocurrency market trend, when prices rise again by 100 or 1000 times. That is why every event that occurs on the cryptocurrency market, according to many users, can lead to a bullish trend. This is what was expected even from the launch of Bakkt.

wozzek23

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Some of you are fond of expecting too much from this cryptocurrency market but it shouldn’t be like that. I see some people and every little event they will tag it as a catalyst for the next bull run. Just like earlier this year on February 14th, someone was asking a question here whether the Valentine day is going to be leading us to another increase in price.

Why do people keep acting this way lol? That last year I knew that there is not going to be anything big about Bakkt being launched despite that a lot of people kept hyping it too much and coupled up with some predictions that are coming from influencers and experts, they all believed that bull run was going to be last year when Bakkt is launched. But that day can and passed and nothing special about it.

Baoo

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on February 23, 2020, 04:16:40 PM

Maybe investors are not yet interested in it. The platform still released their services newly in cryptocurrency community, it might take time before they start getting investors that are interested in making use of their services. And right from time I wasn’t expecting the Bakkt to start a bull run, after deep research I realized that there is going to be a Halving and halving is mainly what causes a bull run, if you check the last halving and what happened after, you will get to know what I’m talking about. And also the CEO of Coinbase made mention of this in 2018 when he said that the price of Bitcoin will not go for a bull run, that it might even fall below $3000. We should look forward to the Halving and see what would happen.

That's absolutely true, the majority of investors are waiting for the halving, because they know that after that event Bitcoin will rise. Being impatient will badly affect on any investor traders in general, everything will come to you in the right time especially when you take a right opportunity through a special move or decision, you don't need to trade or invest everyday or every week. try to take always the chance in the appropriate time, that is the most essential thing.

rnsribeiro

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on February 23, 2020, 04:16:40 PM

Maybe investors are not yet interested in it. The platform still released their services newly in cryptocurrency community, it might take time before they start getting investors that are interested in making use of their services. And right from time I wasn’t expecting the Bakkt to start a bull run, after deep research I realized that there is going to be a Halving and halving is mainly what causes a bull run, if you check the last halving and what happened after, you will get to know what I’m talking about. And also the CEO of Coinbase made mention of this in 2018 when he said that the price of Bitcoin will not go for a bull run, that it might even fall below $3000. We should look forward to the Halving and see what would happen.

It is interesting to watch after people who claim some services as dead now. They see btc's chart and can possibly understand - there were plenty of people who wouldn't believe in btc to climb above $5 price, and there were even more people who would assume btc won't go above $10k in 2018.
There were plenty of same situations in stock market.
So we clearly see - investments (and all around them) are about long term and right conclusions

TheGreatPython

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Maybe investors are not yet interested in it. The platform still released their services newly in cryptocurrency community, it might take time before they start getting investors that are interested in making use of their services. And right from time I wasn’t expecting the Bakkt to start a bull run, after deep research I realized that there is going to be a Halving and halving is mainly what causes a bull run, if you check the last halving and what happened after, you will get to know what I’m talking about. And also the CEO of Coinbase made mention of this in 2018 when he said that the price of Bitcoin will not go for a bull run, that it might even fall below $3000. We should look forward to the Halving and see what would happen.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: fillippone on February 18, 2020, 05:48:15 PM

Quote from: Saint-loup on February 18, 2020, 04:36:48 PM

It's great for Bakkt and ICE but what is the benefit for Bitcoin exactly? Do you think the BTC market will become more smooth and less volatile with a high Open Interest on Bakkt?

I think big open interest mean a well developed future market.
I might be contrarian to a number of members of the forum here, but I think big future market is beneficial to Bitcoin in at least two ways.

1. Well developed future markets means that there si a good way to short the market. Shorting a market, or taking a profit when the price falls, greatly helps the price discovery of bitcoin. IF you can go only long a market you cannot bet against it. So you cannot risk your money to bet on a contrarian move. Why regulators suspend the short selling activity when price falls too much? because it's an effective way to find the true (probably lower) value of the relative financial instruments. In this sense speculators are not avid agents, but they are who risk their capital to discover the true value of an instrument.

2. Many agents simply cannot touch bitcoin. Many funds, pension funds, banks etc cannot simply buy bitcoins. this is true for a variety of reasons. Mainly because there is a "moral suasion" from central regulators on the matter. But also because hey lack proper authorisations, or investment mandate on crypto's. This is why they only can buy futures (physically settled) to gain exposure to prive movements. This is the truth: many actors are only interested in high variance-low correlation movements, not on the anarco-capitalistical side of BTC.

Yes it's an interesting point, but I'm not sure it would help the price to grow because if pension funds invest in Bitcoin they wouldn't want to be totally exposed to its high volatility so they will necessarily hedge. And if they hedge (by keeping a certain amount of shorts for example) it will weigh on the price IMO.

fillippone

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Quote from: Saint-loup on February 18, 2020, 04:36:48 PM

Quote from: fillippone on February 15, 2020, 07:35:47 AM

While I share the enthusiasm for BAKKT, as stated in my above message, please remember where we stand.

This is BAKKT OI and Volume chart:

This is the analogous CME OI and Volume chart:

BAKKT has little more than 5% of the Open Interest registered at CME.
I do agree physical bitcoin is very different from cash settlement, but just realising the growth potential is still huge, might help understanding the bigger picture.

It's great for Bakkt and ICE but what is the benefit for Bitcoin exactly? Do you think the BTC market will become more smooth and less volatile with a high Open Interest on Bakkt?

I think big open interest mean a well developed future market.
I might be contrarian to a number of members of the forum here, but I think big future market is beneficial to Bitcoin in at least two ways.

1. Well developed future markets means that there si a good way to short the market. Shorting a market, or taking a profit when the price falls, greatly helps the price discovery of bitcoin. IF you can go only long a market you cannot bet against it. So you cannot risk your money to bet on a contrarian move. Why regulators suspend the short selling activity when price falls too much? because it's an effective way to find the true (probably lower) value of the relative financial instruments. In this sense speculators are not avid agents, but they are who risk their capital to discover the true value of an instrument.

2. Many agents simply cannot touch bitcoin. Many funds, pension funds, banks etc cannot simply buy bitcoins. this is true for a variety of reasons. Mainly because there is a "moral suasion" from central regulators on the matter. But also because hey lack proper authorisations, or investment mandate on crypto's. This is why they only can buy futures (physically settled) to gain exposure to prive movements. This is the truth: many actors are only interested in high variance-low correlation movements, not on the anarco-capitalistical side of BTC.

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Saint-loup

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Quote from: fillippone on February 15, 2020, 07:35:47 AM

While I share the enthusiasm for BAKKT, as stated in my above message, please remember where we stand.

This is BAKKT OI and Volume chart:

This is the analogous CME OI and Volume chart:

BAKKT has little more than 5% of the Open Interest registered at CME.
I do agree physical bitcoin is very different from cash settlement, but just realising the growth potential is still huge, might help understanding the bigger picture.

It's great for Bakkt and ICE but what is the benefit for Bitcoin exactly? Do you think the BTC market will become more smooth and less volatile with a high Open Interest on Bakkt?

deisik

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 14, 2020, 04:18:58 PM

Quote from: vintages on February 14, 2020, 03:50:34 PM

I understand that, no one is asking them to run a charity organisation. Its just too bad that almost every innovation in line with Bitcoin will be more profit oriented than goal oriented.

Do you think miners are doing it for fun? The moment charity or altruism is required to keep it alive is the moment it embarks on its journey into the grave

It is not about charity and altruism

I think the whole dilemma or even thinking in these terms is conceptually wrong. In fact, I could even go as far as to say that your line of reasoning can be reversed and turned upside down or inside out (which way you prefer best). It can be said that when you are looking only for profits or when profits become your primary concern, you are stepping into the graveyard where your idea is to be buried. It is not about charity or altruism, but it is not about profits and money either. It is about doing something that meets the needs of society, so if you get there and do it better than the rest of the pack, money will follow your scent

1Referee

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Quote from: fillippone on February 15, 2020, 07:35:47 AM

BAKKT has little more than 5% of the Open Interest registered at CME.
I do agree physical bitcoin is very different from cash settlement, but just realising the growth potential is still huge, might help understanding the bigger picture.

I'm also confident that Bakkt's OI will increase further, but that on its own isn't really much of a big deal for me personally. I think the fact that we have multiple end-to-end regulated platforms with each their own market and OI pools makes Bitcoin's market as a whole more liquid, which is the most important aspect with how illiquid this market was and to a large degree still is.

People assume that the volumes Bakkt are pushing are low because it's so much higher on Bitmex, Bybit, Deribit etc but none of those are regulated and all their volumes are representing leveraged volumes, so who knows how low the actual volume really is compared to the reported daily volumes.

In the same way, volumes reported by Coinbase are much lower than shite Tether exchanges reporting +$500 million in USDT daily volume. Cheaters will always manage to stay far ahead and therefore shouldn't be used as benchmark exchanges.

fillippone

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While I share the enthusiasm for BAKKT, as stated in my above message, please remember where we stand.

This is BAKKT OI and Volume chart:

This is the analogous CME OI and Volume chart:

BAKKT has little more than 5% of the Open Interest registered at CME.
I do agree physical bitcoin is very different from cash settlement, but just realising the growth potential is still huge, might help understanding the bigger picture.

FlightyPouch

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I don't know if you read this news but it is starting. The hype is not a hype anymore, it is happening. I don't know what happened but I think that is just a delay so the impact will be more fatal.

https://cryptonews.com/news/bitcoin-futures-open-interest-on-bakkt-up-50-in-february-mor-5784.htm

I think Bakkt is the reason why we are seeing these good changes in the price chart.

https://cryptoslate.com/more-bakkt-futures-contracts-are-settled-in-bitcoin-than-in-cash/

bearexin

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Bakkt was overhyped by people. See even claimed that Bakkt was going to be the reason why the price of Bitcoin would pump because a lot of institutions would start trading on Bitcoin through Bakkt. Quite funny how they all failed, this goes to show that no one can really predict such an invent. Some people just like to overhype things and make it seem like it’s going to be too big and when it comes nothing would happen.

I waited for when Bakkt will be released and when it did I didn’t even see any changes and the market remained as it is. Lol that’s funny.

gentlemand

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Quote from: vintages on February 14, 2020, 03:50:34 PM

I understand that, no one is asking them to run a charity organisation. Its just too bad that almost every innovation in line with Bitcoin will be more profit oriented than goal oriented.

Do you think miners are doing it for fun? The moment charity or altruism is required to keep it alive is the moment it embarks on its journey into the grave. The entire thing is an incentive loop. The more naked greed it feeds the healthier and more sustainable it is. It might be distasteful to some but it's totally necessary.

vintages

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Quote from: Febo on February 14, 2020, 11:45:34 AM

Quote from: vintages on February 14, 2020, 11:00:41 AM

With the way it is now, I guess those who kinda gained from Bakkt are those who set it up.

They set it up to make a profit. That is sow it is in business. If they would not see a profit they would never bother starting it. They are not a charity organisation that helps poor bitcoin holders.

I understand that, no one is asking them to run a charity organisation. Its just too bad that almost every innovation in line with Bitcoin will be more profit oriented than goal oriented.
Well, let's hope it will have more significant impact on Bitcoin in the future than it is presently.

fudster

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Bakkt I think is just as good as it should if the price can still be brought down but now that its price is climbing up and unstoppable, its likely that those who keep betting the price to drop will lose more. Though there is no real BTC in there, Bakkt is not done. I'm not from bakkt, but I would probably go there if they allow anyone and go long for the price with more leverage.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: deisik on February 14, 2020, 10:59:02 AM

Quote from: Saint-loup on February 13, 2020, 11:46:23 AM

I disagree with that, everyone needing to sell an important amount of BTC could have interest in BTC futures.
For example if you need to buy a car or a flat in June you will be happy to be able to secure now a virtual sell of your bitcoins at 10800$ on a future exchange

Makes no sense if you ask me

You can just sell your bitcoins for dollars (or whatever) and get done with that. Or not sell anything at all and just keep your bitcoins intact until you actually need them, and hopefully with their price risen by that time. The example you provide makes sense for producers who buy raw materials in advance and want to secure current prices for future production because it affects their profits. With direct consumption like buying a car or whatever futures are pretty much useless (not even speaking of trade costs they incur)

But thankfully to futures you can just sell your BTCs in June at the current price (even a little bit higher in fact). Of course you're free to gamble on the price in June on the spot market, and just wait until then to see... but if Bitcoin worths $7000 in June finally, you will lose almost 40%...

Febo

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Quote from: vintages on February 14, 2020, 11:00:41 AM

With the way it is now, I guess those who kinda gained from Bakkt are those who set it up.

They set it up to make a profit. That is sow it is in business. If they would not see a profit they would never bother starting it. They are not a charity organisation that helps poor bitcoin holders.

vintages

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This Bakkt scenario is the same reason I am personally skeptical of the upcoming Bitcoin halving. So many people have extra high hopes that Bakkt will be the game changer for Bitcoin. And also skyrock the price but instead the opposite was totally the case.
With the way it is now, I guess those who kinda gained from Bakkt are those who set it up.
We probably always overhype events in the cryptocurrency industry.

deisik

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Quote from: Saint-loup on February 13, 2020, 11:46:23 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 12, 2020, 03:48:27 PM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on January 29, 2020, 02:54:56 PM

Very interesting. I was among those who thought Bakkt would boom once launched, because I'd figured that hedge funds and other big-money investors would want in on the crypto game, and the only good way to do that would be through futures and options. Apparently the reception is tepid at best, and I'm kind of surprised to see that.

Even the volume on the CME seems pretty low. I've no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but my guess is that if business doesn't pick up on Bakkt, they'll shut their doors

My take is that no one is actually interested in Bitcoin derivatives

How come? The reason for that is simple. You can store Bitcoin without any hassle and the requirement to pay storage and transportation costs, for example (apart from transaction fees, obviously). And in this regard Bitcoin is strikingly different from gold, oil, gas, and other material assets. With them derivatives make perfect sense as you can buy and sell paper gold, etc. But paper bitcoins simply don't cut it as you can just as easily have real bitcoins totally under your control in your personal wallet

I disagree with that, everyone needing to sell an important amount of BTC could have interest in BTC futures.
For example if you need to buy a car or a flat in June you will be happy to be able to secure now a virtual sell of your bitcoins at 10800$ on a future exchange

Makes no sense if you ask me

You can just sell your bitcoins for dollars (or whatever) and get done with that. Or not sell anything at all and just keep your bitcoins intact until you actually need them, and hopefully with their price risen by that time. The example you provide makes sense for producers who buy raw materials in advance and want to secure current prices for future production because it affects their profits. With direct consumption like buying a car or whatever futures are pretty much useless (not even speaking of trade costs they incur)

Quote from: gentlemand on February 13, 2020, 07:19:04 PM

Quote from: deisik on February 13, 2020, 04:01:44 AM

Us little folks are no fools either, I mean not anymore since we got Bitcoin.

Only a select few think that way. It's great for them that they have that option but the vast majority don't think that way and never, ever will. They'll leave it to the big dicks and the dicks will be only too happy to package it up nicely and feed it back to them

So far it hasn't played out that way

Topic: Bakkt is done? (Read 652 times)