BAKKT: Road to $100,000+ starts in november? - page 2.

cellard

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1252

Quote from: fasdorcas on October 24, 2018, 02:48:49 AM

Road to 100k+ never starts. Have you calculate how much the marketcap would be if it becomes 100k+ ? It would be both unlikely to pass that and also quite impossible to achieve with the number of usage bitcoin has and the number of people involved in it.

Dollar is involved every where in the world, basically the closest thing we have in the world to a global currency yet if you look at the american stock markets it is still around the marketcap of bitcoin if it hits 100k, you think the american stock markets combined could be same marketcap as bitcoin?

That is very max the limit we can ever hope to achieve and definitely not the higher. Of course this doesn't take away from the fact that bitcoin definitely will go up when bakkt really gets up and going and starts doing what they have been trying to get approved of.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be as used as the dollar when it comes to transaction volume for it to reach $100k. And remember that holding bitcoin is using it even if you don't transact with it.

Price is a function of supply and demand, that's all. As long as there's demand for what bitcoin offers, the price will go up. Bakkt allows for a ton of pockets to get involved within the market. Bakkt needs to buy bitcoin to settle the contracts, so this is not phantom derivative bullshit like CBOE futures.

A nice pic for context:

fasdorcas

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 527

Road to 100k+ never starts. Have you calculate how much the marketcap would be if it becomes 100k+ ? It would be both unlikely to pass that and also quite impossible to achieve with the number of usage bitcoin has and the number of people involved in it.

Dollar is involved every where in the world, basically the closest thing we have in the world to a global currency yet if you look at the american stock markets it is still around the marketcap of bitcoin if it hits 100k, you think the american stock markets combined could be same marketcap as bitcoin?

That is very max the limit we can ever hope to achieve and definitely not the higher. Of course this doesn't take away from the fact that bitcoin definitely will go up when bakkt really gets up and going and starts doing what they have been trying to get approved of.

thecodebear

hero member

Activity: 2240

Merit: 848

I think in the mid term BAKKT is gonna be huge for Bitcoin, and in the long term it is the first major step to the flood of Big Money coming into Bitcoin, which of course is huge.

In the short term I think Wall St firms will slowly move into Bitcoin, so I'm not sure if there will be an immediate boost in price in December. But over the course of a few months I think BAKKT will lead us into the next bull run (and maybe Fidelity and Goldman Sachs as well if they get their Bitcoin services up in early 2019).

I think the best thing about BAKKT is they actually believe in Bitcoin and want to spread its usage as both an investment class and as a payment system. By this time next year we could very well see major Wall St institutions have billions of dollars in Bitcoin and maybe even ETFs by then and possibly have pension funds and people's retirement accounts and so on have a few percent exposure to Bitcoin. I think in 2020 we will have the next Bitcoin peak easily over $100k and I do think BAKKT is the first step towards that.

triciaa478

member

Activity: 350

Merit: 10

The road to 100,000 price do not depend on ETF but on the speculations by traders. If traders and holders think the price of bitcoins is worth it then it will enter a bull market before the end of 2018.

CoinCodex

jr. member

Activity: 314

Merit: 6

Bakkt, is planned to launch on December 12 according to an official notice.

https://coincodex.com/article/2529/bakkt-planned-for-december-12-launch-still-waiting-for-regulatory-approval/

South Park

hero member

Activity: 2884

Merit: 794

I am terrible at Fantasy Football!!!

The road already started, I do not understand all of those people that are complaining about the price of bitcoin being too low and they do nothing about it, I do not know if we're going to reach 100000 in the next years or if it's going to take decades but I know one thing, it is going to happen and when that happens I want to have as much bitcoin as I can because if I get enough bitcoin by the point that happens it's likely that my life will change completely for the better.

Pavel1391

jr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 2

Given that the upcoming autumn Chicago Exchange plans to launch options for bitcoin futures, the Bakkt project can provide a significant impetus in the development of the digital assets market and expanding the scope of their use. In this regard, the year 2019 can be regarded as the year of the merger of two segments of the financial world on a global scale - the fiat market and the sphere of crypto assets.

bustedsynx

sr. member

Activity: 859

Merit: 251

BAKKT still requires a license from US SEC. It's just that it is backed by the largest Wall Street institutions which is said to increase the likelihood of being granted.

Wild_Potato

newbie

Activity: 22

Merit: 0

Quote from: Wind_FURY on August 13, 2018, 12:45:41 AM

Quote from: cellard on August 11, 2018, 10:59:01 AM

Quote from: 1Referee on August 11, 2018, 08:54:27 AM

We don't know how effective the futures are on this market. After the peak in 2013 there was a perfectly similar correction dragging the market down for quite a long period of time, especially for crypto standards, and that without futures. We need at least a year or two to see the real effect of these futures markets, and eventually I do believe that they will heavily weigh on Bitcoin's market with how institutions will gain an upper hand.

I think right now it's safe to say that those dealing with futures are just as afraid as most people here are. In other words, futures traders are afraid of Bitcoin manipulation, and Bitcoiners are afraid of futures traders manipulation.

It's all too much of a coincidence to me. I mean the price had to crash eventually, but it turns out it basically started around exactly when CME launched the futures... it could have been exactly the same without the futures launch and $20k was the legit, organic peak for that run, or perhaps it was just getting started and they cut it... who knows? we can never know since there is only one timeline that we can perceive at least.

I have no doubts that the theory weights at least some value. I mean look at the charts, how come these other assets also peaked right when the CME launched their futures? looks like manipulation to me. They keep these assets low while they keep fiat-friendly stocks and bonds up. Our job is to amass as much BTC as possible during this bear market as noobs get kicked out by them, we must be ready because next time it starts rising it will dwarf previous highs and they will not be able to control it anymore. Real money always win in the long term. Bitcoin, gold, silver, all good to go, but biggest massive gains on BTC obviously.

Those charts are scary. Hahaha.

What then would it mean for the miners on the next halving coming on 2020? If "Wall Street cartel" keeps pushing the price down, that would threaten the miners incentives to keep mining. What would happen to Jihan Wu? Will he be pushed out and replaced by the Wall Street cartel's preferred chip maker, making "them" control Bitcoin?

Quote from: fabiorem on August 11, 2018, 10:22:48 AM

About futures, there is this article here: https://blog.goodaudience.com/bitcoin-futures-and-the-ghost-of-gold-81418864c961

The idea is for them to dump the price so that retail traders are out, and then pump it so that they become more rich. But bitcoin moves 5x faster than gold, so we dont need to wait years to see some action. People gain and lose interest on it very quickly.

Bitcoin does have very unique features that these other assets didn't have. It moves much much faster, and the halvening causes bull runs because of the nature of mining. I don't think that they can keep down that momentum very easily, and if they did, they'd lose millions of dollars in the process. Not that it would be a problem, they could just dump the costs on a bank to bankrupt it and have the taxpayers bail it out.

There were a lot of other people waiting anxiously to short Bitcoin when it went past 10k last year. It wasn't just institutional investors; a lot of retail investors thought it was a huge bubble at that time too. The general market sentiment was too high too quickly in Dec.

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

Quote from: cellard on August 11, 2018, 10:59:01 AM

Quote from: 1Referee on August 11, 2018, 08:54:27 AM

We don't know how effective the futures are on this market. After the peak in 2013 there was a perfectly similar correction dragging the market down for quite a long period of time, especially for crypto standards, and that without futures. We need at least a year or two to see the real effect of these futures markets, and eventually I do believe that they will heavily weigh on Bitcoin's market with how institutions will gain an upper hand.

I think right now it's safe to say that those dealing with futures are just as afraid as most people here are. In other words, futures traders are afraid of Bitcoin manipulation, and Bitcoiners are afraid of futures traders manipulation.

It's all too much of a coincidence to me. I mean the price had to crash eventually, but it turns out it basically started around exactly when CME launched the futures... it could have been exactly the same without the futures launch and $20k was the legit, organic peak for that run, or perhaps it was just getting started and they cut it... who knows? we can never know since there is only one timeline that we can perceive at least.

I have no doubts that the theory weights at least some value. I mean look at the charts, how come these other assets also peaked right when the CME launched their futures? looks like manipulation to me. They keep these assets low while they keep fiat-friendly stocks and bonds up. Our job is to amass as much BTC as possible during this bear market as noobs get kicked out by them, we must be ready because next time it starts rising it will dwarf previous highs and they will not be able to control it anymore. Real money always win in the long term. Bitcoin, gold, silver, all good to go, but biggest massive gains on BTC obviously.

Those charts are scary. Hahaha.

What then would it mean for the miners on the next halving coming on 2020? If "Wall Street cartel" keeps pushing the price down, that would threaten the miners incentives to keep mining. What would happen to Jihan Wu? Will he be pushed out and replaced by the Wall Street cartel's preferred chip maker, making "them" control Bitcoin?

NeuroticFish

legendary

Activity: 3668

Merit: 6382

Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!

Quote from: cellard on August 09, 2018, 08:42:55 AM

Quote from: holzer on August 08, 2018, 03:18:50 PM

This is what I don't understand about this market. Bitcoin pumps on the idea that ETF is coming. Bitcoin dumps when ETF decision gets delayed. BAKKT get announced that not only does everythung the ETF would do but also partners with huge retailers who will help promote adoption and the price tanks? Reminds me of 2014 when lots of good news was happening but had no effect on the price.

I guess it just takes more time for this thing to become more widespread and understood on its nature. The word "ETF" is now a bit of a meme that makes investors think it's going to pump %1000 or so.

This BAKKT thing is too new, people still don't understand what it is. In the next couple of months news and most importantly, youtube videos will start popping left and right talking about it and just like ETF, BAKKT will become a bullish signal. So I don't expect big movements until October for a "buy the rumor" scenario. Will it be a "sell the news" scenario (sell on release)? we'll see about that.

No, most traders and potential investors are much better informed than you'd think. Maybe better informed than us, when the news has a potential to affect the price.
And this would mean that it's not them who is playing with the price. Somebody keeps dumping big (some voices said it may be Bitmain? I don't know; however, I think that whoever does that it's not only dumping, it's trade in both directions with huge amounts of BTC) and it may be this somebody that tried a bulltrap based on the ETF hype. Since this may have not worked out as expected, maybe "he" didn't try another move this fast (maybe couldn't dump enough Bitcoin in the short time to have funds for a proper new pump?), leaving BAKKT news not covered by the expected market movement.

rainezerr

full member

Activity: 378

Merit: 100

ADAB ADAB ADAB ADAB

Quote from: bengsabeng on August 10, 2018, 06:24:28 AM

more precisely in September, because decisions about ETF will be received in September. if the ETF is received a trip to $ 100k will begin immediately and the bear market will end soon.

In that case, people should be starting to hoard more coins in order to earn a huge amount of profit when the prices of cryptocurrency in the market started to pump up again soon.

cellard

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1252

Quote from: 1Referee on August 11, 2018, 08:54:27 AM

We don't know how effective the futures are on this market. After the peak in 2013 there was a perfectly similar correction dragging the market down for quite a long period of time, especially for crypto standards, and that without futures. We need at least a year or two to see the real effect of these futures markets, and eventually I do believe that they will heavily weigh on Bitcoin's market with how institutions will gain an upper hand.

I think right now it's safe to say that those dealing with futures are just as afraid as most people here are. In other words, futures traders are afraid of Bitcoin manipulation, and Bitcoiners are afraid of futures traders manipulation.

It's all too much of a coincidence to me. I mean the price had to crash eventually, but it turns out it basically started around exactly when CME launched the futures... it could have been exactly the same without the futures launch and $20k was the legit, organic peak for that run, or perhaps it was just getting started and they cut it... who knows? we can never know since there is only one timeline that we can perceive at least.

I have no doubts that the theory weights at least some value. I mean look at the charts, how come these other assets also peaked right when the CME launched their futures? looks like manipulation to me. They keep these assets low while they keep fiat-friendly stocks and bonds up. Our job is to amass as much BTC as possible during this bear market as noobs get kicked out by them, we must be ready because next time it starts rising it will dwarf previous highs and they will not be able to control it anymore. Real money always win in the long term. Bitcoin, gold, silver, all good to go, but biggest massive gains on BTC obviously.

fabiorem

sr. member

Activity: 1400

Merit: 347

About futures, there is this article here: https://blog.goodaudience.com/bitcoin-futures-and-the-ghost-of-gold-81418864c961

The idea is for them to dump the price so that retail traders are out, and then pump it so that they become more rich. But bitcoin moves 5x faster than gold, so we dont need to wait years to see some action. People gain and lose interest on it very quickly.

1Referee

legendary

Activity: 2170

Merit: 1427

We don't know how effective the futures are on this market. After the peak in 2013 there was a perfectly similar correction dragging the market down for quite a long period of time, especially for crypto standards, and that without futures. We need at least a year or two to see the real effect of these futures markets, and eventually I do believe that they will heavily weigh on Bitcoin's market with how institutions will gain an upper hand.

I think right now it's safe to say that those dealing with futures are just as afraid as most people here are. In other words, futures traders are afraid of Bitcoin manipulation, and Bitcoiners are afraid of futures traders manipulation.

cellard

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1252

It's known that the government-wall street faction has been doing good business (as in, manipulating the hell out of assets) for years now with massive shorts. Gold, uranium, silver.. you name it.

And of course, Bitcoin was no different:

However, if they are smart enough, they should know that this beast is only tameable in the short-medium term, and in the long term they'll fuck up badly if they haven't been hoarding as much BTC as possible. They can enjoy the manipulative techniques while they remain effective. It's up to people if they want to feed them their BTC or not.

Wild_Potato

newbie

Activity: 22

Merit: 0

Quote from: cellard on August 09, 2018, 11:00:12 AM

Quote from: Wild_Potato on August 09, 2018, 10:16:37 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on August 06, 2018, 12:00:27 PM

Quote from: cellard on August 06, 2018, 10:40:36 AM

This is big, very big, similar to an ETF approved. You will be able to buy Bitcoin easily, all the computer illiterate boomers that just can't get their heads around downloading a wallet and securing the coins, will be able to get Bitcoin exposure. And they seem to be serious: No shitcoins, only Bitcoin.

meh, this sounds like more empty hype (just like the ETFs). "if you build it, they will come!"

you assume there is all this latent demand for bitcoin exposure that is waiting on the sidelines---why? it's not how the human mind (and therefore markets) work. people and institutions who want bitcoin exposure because of its astronomical gains don't say to themselves, "no problem, i'll just wait 2 years or 6 years for the right derivative security product to be approved by the SEC!" lol. and there isn't much volume in the regulated swaps and futures markets. what makes this so different?

also, it's not all good news. like you said, all this latent demand you think exists is from people who don't understand the point of BTC anyway. we like to think people understand the difference between "real assets" and "paper assets" but most don't. and if there is so much latent demand for paper bitcoins, as you suggest, that opens big opportunities for spot market manipulation, just like the gold markets: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.43553439

Most people are missing this point and I don't understand why. Putting Bitcoin into the mainstream for mass adoption is the worst thing we could do next to allowing the banks to write papers on thin air and call them Bitcoin. These rascals are just trying to get their hands into the asset so they can create an infinitive supply of it. The whole principle of Bitcoin depends on its limited supply!

Also, just because it is implemented in November doesn't necessarily mean that it will start going on a monstrous bull run at that time. If speculators really believed it, it would be moving already.

Im not sure what you are talking about. Excuse me but how the fuck is the government able to create an infinite supply out of it? just because they can issue whatever-government-backed scam as Bitcoin doesn't mean it's actual Bitcoin therefore as far as real Bitcoin is concerned the supply remains the same.

My point is, we CANNOT avoid the government doing whatever they want to do about it. So why not profit from their price manipulation? Long term physics remain: There are 21 million Bitcoins top, and fiat has unpayable debt clusterfuck sitting on top of it like a grey cloud. Long term it doesn't matter, short term it does because you can profit from it by buying and selling at the right times to increase your BTC count which is all that matters.

Simple: Futures contracts. They've been doing it with gold for years. If an investor takes a position on the market with gold, there is no impact on the supply because the bank simply hands over a paper (not even that anymore) and has no obligation to back it physically. But it directly impacts the price. So traders from Deutsche bank, Citi, Credit Suisse, JP Morgans, etc. can get together and take massive short positions. Then, despite there being 21 million bitcoins that should be expanding in value, there is now a very heavy ceiling pushing them down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-25/ex-deutsche-bank-traders-charged-in-expanding-spoofing-probe

Oh and fiat's debt clusterfuck certainly seems bad, but it's (attempting) to be balanced by the GDP. In the US a 21 trillion debt vs an 18.57 trillion GDP isn't as bad as it seems, although it most certainly is unsustainable in the long run. So yes, we should be buying the dips.

cellard

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 1252

Quote from: 1Referee on August 10, 2018, 08:53:48 AM

Quote from: Lucius on August 10, 2018, 04:39:21 AM

Price of mining one BTC is different from country to country, of course it depends on the price of electricity. For example by research from Elitefixtures-Bitcoin Mining Costs Throughout the World it will cost you only 531$ to mine 1 BTC in Venezuela, but it will cost you over 26 000$ to do same thing in South Korea. Since most of big mining farms are in China, is a very important thing to say that cost of mining 1BTC there is only slightly higher then 3000$.

So by this data ( if they are accurate ), it would be profitable for miners even if price is drop under 4000$, what we hope will not happen.

In Venezuela the electricity might be dirt cheap, but there is no way you can have larger miners settle there as they would literally drain that country in a matter of days. To add; the electricity infrastructure there is horrible. In several parts of the country there are massive outages where it could take hours and hours before you see it come back, and then it's literally hoping that it won't disappear again, which it obviously will.

The thing with mining is that the more blocks you scoop up, the lower your cost per minted Bitcoin is. I wouldn't be surprised if Bitmain's pools can profitably mine even at $2000 because as always, the smaller miners will leave first and Bitmain's share will then only increase. More network share = more blocks for you.

China is most likely the place to pay attention to since most mining rewards to there anyway due the massive hashrate monopoly in there so I guess the global average must be around $4000.

But like you said Bitmain may find a deeper gap, however they cannot exploit this indefinitely... it may be a risk taking advantage of that. As smaller miners go, if Bitmain tries to get this gap that smaller mines leave, their dominance may be too high and 51% may kick in which means price dumping so it could end up in losses.

They have to leverage that. I think they will not try anything stupid. So most likely $4000 to $5000 should be the solid miner cost bottom taking as valid the data we have.

1Referee

legendary

Activity: 2170

Merit: 1427

Quote from: Lucius on August 10, 2018, 04:39:21 AM

Price of mining one BTC is different from country to country, of course it depends on the price of electricity. For example by research from Elitefixtures-Bitcoin Mining Costs Throughout the World it will cost you only 531$ to mine 1 BTC in Venezuela, but it will cost you over 26 000$ to do same thing in South Korea. Since most of big mining farms are in China, is a very important thing to say that cost of mining 1BTC there is only slightly higher then 3000$.

So by this data ( if they are accurate ), it would be profitable for miners even if price is drop under 4000$, what we hope will not happen.

In Venezuela the electricity might be dirt cheap, but there is no way you can have larger miners settle there as they would literally drain that country in a matter of days. To add; the electricity infrastructure there is horrible. In several parts of the country there are massive outages where it could take hours and hours before you see it come back, and then it's literally hoping that it won't disappear again, which it obviously will.

The thing with mining is that the more blocks you scoop up, the lower your cost per minted Bitcoin is. I wouldn't be surprised if Bitmain's pools can profitably mine even at $2000 because as always, the smaller miners will leave first and Bitmain's share will then only increase. More network share = more blocks for you.

Slow death

legendary

Activity: 3164

Merit: 1127

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: cellard on August 06, 2018, 10:40:36 AM

This is big, very big, similar to an ETF approved.

I just went to google and typed: " BAKKT " and I see this:

Bitcoin and the NYSE — unpacking Bakkt’s BIG plans

Intercontinental Exchange, Microsoft, and Starbucks are launching a crypto venture

The NYSE's Owner Wants to Bring Bitcoin to Your 401(k). Are Crypto Credit Cards Next?

Pantera Capital CEO: People Should Be Focused on Bakkt (‘Huge News’) and Not on Bitcoin ETF Rejections

Bitcoin could come to your retirement account, thanks to Starbucks' crypto venture: Investor Brian Kelly

It could be something interesting.

Topic: BAKKT: Road to $100,000+ starts in november? - page 2. (Read 1291 times)