Topic: Ban request for user: franky1 - page 5. (Read 3189 times)

Did you message franky when you made this topic? That'd probably have been a better way to go about this if you didn't.

Also banning people for their views is something I don't think this forum has engaged with and probably shouldn't. It's up for users to discuss others views, not just an "I don't like them: smite".


There are many suggestions for improving throughput and speed already that haven't been adopted (and some throughput work seems to be in the pipeline too, things just take a while for the bitcoin devs to adopt.

I also remember receiving similar complaints when I used to suggest litecoin for its speed and low fees. Both are things that rely on blockchain technology and are usable and testable now, we don't have to wait for a 2 year roadmap from the bitcoin devs to test out certain parts of the flexibility of crypto and blockchain (this is not an attack on the devs, it's a mention that picking something less proven but testable can be used elsewhere). I don't think I fully agree with the centralised vision for the LN too but I'd expect there to be decentralised solutions/communities that spring from it.

The idea that bitcoin and altcoins are separate is not one that needs to continue, as I've said before, if everything's open source bitcoin can adopt the strangths of other coins anyway.

go cry to some one that cares, like your chums that use an altnet.

you know the altnet that are not bitcoin specific but allow channels with lots of blockchains.. you know the one its called LN.
remember.. .. oh wait are you having one of them moments where your are flipping sides again and pretending you are not a LN fan and denying any memory of ever saying such.

maybe if your tried to learn about LN rather then just follow some group speach you might understand LN better and how its not a bitcoin fixed system.

give yourself 3 weeks, your desire to advertise the ALTnet will return.. usually does after a 3 week mind flip flop event, you have a known pattern.

i do laugh when you cry victim even when evidence shows you're the one poking the bear, trying to get it to bite. hence i have no sympathy for you.

if you don't like it that i dont hug, kiss, pat you on the back and give you merit everytime you cry.. maybe you should stop getting bears to bite you. then you have no reason to cry

And that is acceptable when the sender and recipient use BITCOIN.  It is not acceptable to start talking about other blockchains where the sender and recipient are NOT USING THOSE BLOCKCHAINS.

1. YOU and your chums jump into BITCOIN topics where people want to discuss scaling BITCOIN NETWORK
2. YOU and your chums jump into BITCOIN topics to advertise LN..
2. i didnt start the swimming pool/hosepipe of piss analogy in the topic you refer to*. im the one saying to you lot to stop talking about other networks in bitcoin specific topics

TRY HARDER

*reference: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.58791141
monkeyman wanted to talk about features of things on the bitcoin network
yet, MK4 then meandered into advertising LN
then bitbillo also advertised LN
then jackG then did the same mentioning LN
then avikz also mentioned LN
then o_e_l_e_o also mentioned LN

and thats just in the first 5 replies
hd49278 was first reply not mentioning LN specifically

then titular made another LN advert

i then respond at the blatant overstep of exaggerating LN features/function as a bitcoin2.0 thing advertised as where LN is THE solution

then the LN bunnies all congregate to attack me, simply because i dared to pull apart the LN advert campaign

NeuroticFish and stompix moan about how they cant understand english and THEY compare it using the swimming pool water, hose pipe and piss analogies...(they mentioned those words FIRST)

i then respond using THEIR analogies and words


thanks for mentioning this. seems a small group of altnet fangirls think their altnet is talked about more then bitcoin scaling. where they believe there is only 1 person that wants bitcoin to evolve.

yes LN specific topics are few and far between which is why the altnet fangirls inject themselves into every bitcoin scaling topic to derail it into advertising their altnet,

Bad analogy. Galileo didn't force you to believe the Earth is spherical. He had made his studies and concluded that it is. The rest were just biased about the perception of the world and would refuse to accept such change. Franky demands from you to stop thinking the way you do and think as he does, because he (thinks he) is right.

I don't want to say again that Lightning brings new things to the table, but I'll have to: It's an innovative solution and does good to everybody. Even to those who don't use it. Franky does have a different way of thinking and we ought to allow him talk. But, you know, if you allowed those propagandistic oppressors in Greece explain you why the Earth is flat you'd get some shitty nonsense on repeat.

There is a lot more talk about LN than this pitiful “New forum software” board. Hell, there's more talk about LN even from my local board.

He seems to be upset that the discussion is not really about water but about... uhmmm... struggling with analogy here.... snowballs? that can be redeemed for water but are not water.

I'm not gonna go on a crusade here but I do find it curious that a hardline approach to non-Bitcoin topics (e.g. posting about smart contracts or GPUs can get your thread moved to altcoin boards) doesn't apply to LN. Perhaps to make things clearly delineated we need an LN board (or a Layer 2 board) that was suggested numerous times but never got traction because apparently there isn't enough post volume on LN topics. Which ironically franky1 can help us with.

My disdain isn't because franky1 has different opinions.  It's because half the time their opinions aren't relevant.  

Imagine if you were having a conversation with someone about how you prefer your coffee/tea.  Then imagine I burst in ranting about how a kettle doesn't have to be used to boil water.  It could just as easily be used to boil urine.  My statement is factually accurate, despite the part where it's fair to assume that neither of you like your beverages with boiling piss in them.  So the point I'm raising is not remotely relevant to the conversation at hand.  

What if I then take it a step further and accuse you of dishonesty because you are failing to disclose to the person you were speaking with that kettles can be used to boil urine?  I declare that it's somehow immoral to assume that coffee/tea would always made with water.  And then I then decide to disrupt every future conversation you have about hot beverages to remind everyone that kettles can be used to boil urine.

Do you see the problem?  It's completely obnoxious behaviour.

When a topic is posted in Bitcoin (water) Discussion, franky1 should not be derailing the conversation to talk about "other networks" (piss).

This is exactly my stance too. We don't have to look at others with disdain because they hold a contrary opinion to ours. What if later ours was found to be wrong and theirs right? What happens then? I believe some of us here might've read about the reaction of the world when the first set of Greek philosophers said the world was spherical. The popular belief then was that the world wasnt. At the end, we know the right thing now. The best anyone can do if they don't like the sound of his opinion is to use the ignore button. That's one of the reasons it's there.

I think the call for a ban for franky1 is an overkill.

so whats the rule for bitcoin sats for altnet millisats

or better analogy
bitcoin sats for sidechain LBTC, Wbtc, and others(like msats)

and also, whats the rule for adverting altnets like LN, liquid or bch as "bitcoin2.0"

If you are exchanging altcoins such as Litecoin for Bitcoin or vice versa, that's a topic and discussion that belongs to the altcoin boards. If the topic of discussion were to be BTC to fiat or fiat to BTC, it would fit in Bitcoin subs. I don't like that rule, but that's the way it is.

I experienced it myself when I had one of my threads moved to the altcoin boards recently. mprep explained it to me via PMs because I asked for clarification. I dislike the rule, but I respect the decision and understand the explanation. I would like to see it changed because the altcoin boards will kill any attempt on a civilized discussion and exchange of ideas. 

The moderators have the ability to take one or more posts in a thread and split them into a new thread. In theory, the ability to put posts in one thread into another thread, however this could confuse readers as posts are sorted by postID so moving multiple posts into another may result in it appearing that someone was responding to a post that existed in another thread when the post was created.

LN transactions can be made across blockchains, provided both support SW. So I could trade BTC for LTC via LN, without trusting anyone. I think these types of posts belong in bitcoin sections as they involve bitcoin and have the potential to improve the bitcoin implementation of LN.

same goes for you and your chums constant reminders of an altnet when people actually want to discuss bitcoin stuff.

you may think that showing an "open" exit door of bitcoin and having an "open" entry of the LN cabin/treehouse.. as being "open" minded. pretending its the same thing because there is a path (of many houses) leading sometimes to the treehouse
hoping people will be open minded enough to not think critically about it or hoping they are open minded to ignore the issues.

but when you do so using coercion, threats, and promises that never seem to flourish.. thats not open. thats opportunistic

yes opportunistic.
it might contain 3 of the 4 letters of 'open'. but its not the same thing

it has been a good laugh seeing you pretend to defend peoples rights to say what they want in a topic you created asking to ban someone for what they said. even when what they said can be backed up by hard data, code and other quotes

dont pretend you defend free speech while at the same time asking for a ban. its one of your fatal flaws, contradictions

my only requests of you were not to F**k off or fork off or disappear or shut up or get banned. but instead to just learn more about what you PR campaign is about, try a different style. or just word it differently so that its not trying to en-cite an exodus away from bitcoin

i do hope you have atleast learned:
LN is a different network (secret is in the 'N')
LN payments/commitments are 2of2 multisig requiring 2 party permission
LN peers communicate/handshake first.
       and then agree on which blockchain/token use as a peg to share value of
               and then fund their agreed currency locks
                     and then form the microchannel payment (promises) to actually make payments
LN payments of 11 decimals are not the same as commitments or bitcoin transactions

if you can learn the ways in which LN is different to bitcoin and blockchains in general.
      then you might finally be able to achieve a good PR campaign for its niche use-case, by explaining why its different

anyway have a good life.

I think moving a post is possible but, we just won't consider it as moving, just the way we do with threads. Like, mods won't want to go through  this because, it would be time consuming looking at the fact that, you not only have to search out an appropriate board but, the thread on which to paste the comment post. Though, this might come handy for the poster if he or she could realise, he or she has made an off-topic post.
Should the user see the post to contain some valuable information, with the fact that, not so many topics are lacking in the forum, the user could edit, cut and delete old post, while pasting it in a thread of value that discusses said topic. The issue here could be that, the reply wasn't inspired by that thread but that could be moving a post in a way.

Mods can split a topic, moving one or several posts out of that topic and in to a new topic of their own, which could then be moved to a different board.

This is why I've made this thread. Because this is not a proposal, but rather a falsely, closed-minded way of understanding things. And it won't get better if you keep reminding it to us every day.

i have a proposal too

anyone advertising LN as bitcoin. as bitcoinL2 as bitcoin2.0. as bitcoin scaling. as anything pretending to be the bitcoin network. should think deeply about their advertising stance of confusing people. and then realise the N of LN means its not the same network as bitcoin, and just avoid advertising it as being part of the bitcoin network.

bitcoin-core. the reference client (which altnet groupies also love describing as the sole place feature upgrades should be allowed via) does not have code that support LN millisats nor LNs peer connection gossip protocols. nor the invoice format

and so because its not part of the reference client of the bitcoin network protocol, its not part of the bitcoin network

EG its the same as saying a exchange is not "bitcoin" but a niche service
if people cannot comprehend the simple task of separating the wording of the function of an exchange from the wording of the function of the bitcoin network. then they need to resist trying to say an exchange is bitcoin

You can't move posts from one thread to another. The whole thread has to be moved. At least I have never seen something like that in the past. If that was possible, posts that are off-topic in one sub could easily be moved to a different thread in a sub where they are more appropriate. But that isn't happening. However, maybe admins could create a new thread for an off-topic post in its appropriate sub. I doubt they would be interested in doing that as it's time-consuming. 

How can you just move an individual post? Can't you only move threads?

I had unwatched this topic, but I've had a new idea and it's only suitable for Meta.  I'm not going to engage any further with franky1's ludicrous notions about consensus or LN in this topic and would urge everyone to move that conversation to LoyceV's topic.  

I believe I have a viable solution that allows franky1 to air their views without causing undue disruption:

The topics where these issues arise are threads posted in the Bitcoin Discussion board.  The forum does not yet have a board dedicated to LN.  As such, it is a reasonable assumption that when we are discussing LN in the Bitcoin Discussion board, that it involves LN transactions supported by the Bitcoin blockchain.  LN can be used on other networks, but those networks are not Bitcoin.  If franky1 has a compulsive urge to discuss LN transactions supported by other blockchains, his thoughts should be posted in the correct part of the forum.  Posts about altcoins should be made in the Altcoin Discussion board.  

Proposal:  
The moment any user starts talking about LN transactions supported by other blockchains, their post should be moved to Altcoin Discussion.  Because that is the correct place for that conversation.  If the SMF forum software does not support moving individual posts, then off-topic posts should be deleted and the author of the post can then create it again in the correct subforum.

This way, the rules of the forum are being followed.  Posts which are clearly off-topic are moved to where they should be.  Everyone gets to discuss the aspects of LN they want to discuss and no one is derailing anyone else's topic.

sorry but your pretty much copying the mindset of doomad(un-original)

the "franky you want everything your way" rhetoric
im not the one doing mandatory forks, banning users, and trying to get users over to altnets
heck i(and thousands of others) dont even want patents, NFT, land registry and everything on bitcoin..
bitcoin was invented for digital cash for the unbanked.. thousands of people(including me) just think bitcoin should continue to be used for its purpose. not to be condemned as not-fit-for-purpose just so some other group can sell their other network as what people should use... because that offramping/exodus game is for greed and selfish profit

i get it your are not profiting from bitcoin, your jealous of those that do. and so you want to make your profit bank managing peoples payments on another network(routing). i get it its understandable. its human. everyone doesnt want to be poor, everyone wants income to live a lifestyle. no reason to deny your underlying desire for wanting people to use your favoured altnet.

yet,
im not the one saying bitcoin shouldn't be used for the very thing that it was invented for "digital cash" : white paper
im not the one trying to convince others that altnets should replace bitcoins use.
heck i have even said if you actually explained why altnets differ from bitcoin, then you might have a better PR campaign for your niche usecase.

also i know doomad and now you seem you have targetted me, with the same hitlist and mission plan and scripts, as if im enemy-number-one.. but your rifle scope has limited vision when only looking at one target, you forget that there are thousands of people that want bitcoin scaling.
heck you have injected yourself in many topics of such to sell your altcoin. so deep down you know others do want to talk about bitcoin scaling.. no point denying it. you know they exist

you think your limited scope of me must be due to me being a ego wanting to be the sole person you see.. yet i wasnt the one handing you the target. i am the one trying to explain there is more then me that exists. im not the big ego you have been told that i am.

typically yes, hitmen when on mission with one target only zone in on one person, as if only one person exists in their life that should be killed off. but there are other people. try to accept that. its a known fact that there is more then one person in the world.

you only think its just me vs the world because you are only pointing your scope at me and that has blinded you to the rest.
im not the big single ego.. your just the one with narrow vision.

again looking down a barrel of a scope limits your viewing area. especially when your chums have been the one that handed you the target list of one person, you have become narrow sighted to that one person.
it still does not mean there is only one person. even if your chums only have one target.

you may not like me. but atleast know im not the only one. even if you have a target list of one
...


NFT's are not a bitcoin thing.
as for blockchains. they are decentralised, and part of that decentralisation is that many users store the data. thus avoiding the central point of failure thing(yea i noted you trying to propagandise bitcoin as being centralised due to its blockchain(facepalm)).

the way laws work is by logging things. there are no laws unless they are wrote down and locked into something that everyone can access to read, understand and accept as the truth the majority can live by.
 
take patents/trademarks. if someone doesnt show they are the first and only inventor. then anyone can make silly claims on that property.. however, by logging who owns an asset is important for a asset owner that wants to own something.

EG if owning a house only relied on who can open the door even without the key. then any burglar can take ownership of a house.
however houses are locked to an owner by having a ledger that shows a registered ownership. with rules on how that ownership can change officially.

LN has keys, yes. but with no network consensus. two people with the keys can fight and argue over ownership. and true ownership only works with trust and amicable agreement to not be dishonest, not blackmail, not agree.  and involves punishments and watching what the other person might do 24/7 to try stopping them. which is less secure then registered community wide locks. that the majority can account and audit and agree as who deserves what.

blockchains have a deeper and bigger advantage over centralised databases, or amicable agreements of trust and promise. because there is no central point of failure in blockchains. and no trust/honesty, or two party promise involved.
yes a blockchain can be manipulated if the dev group is centralised. and i have mentioned that risk often and showed when it has been abused. thats called making the community risk aware.

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bitcoin is not the ledger for home ownership, nor NFT... not everyones alibi for using bitcoin is to throw every asset into bitcoin, no one has ever said bitcoin is the land ownership registry, the nft registry, the patent registry. bitcoin is a finance/currency network for ONE asset (sats)

however if you are against networks being used for different assets. why then support a network like LN that supports many assets.
seems a little backwards in arguments to say you are against many assets being used on one network, but then support a network that supports many assets.

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i actually do want consensus. the true consensus of 2009-2016, as invented by bitcoins inventor. not the bastardised mandatory upgrade 'backward compatibility' non-consensus thing that was used in 2017 where users did not need to upgrade their node before activation is allowed.(backward compatibility" = no vote at node level) nor is true consensus where the miners were threatened to change a flag else get your block rejected before activation(to fake 100% vote)
before miners were even given software that would accept the feature if it would activate.(they just needed to change a flag, not their software)

consensus is more about a feature that does not activate unless the majority is ready for it.
devs didnt like consensus as they only got 45% acceptance nov2016-june 2017
consensus is about no pre activation threat. no rejecting of blocks before activation.
consensus is just that it wont activate unless users/pools want it.. consensus is not that it activates and unless people want it they will find themselves on a fork.

in 2017 however it was activated before people were ready for it. the vote was counted before pools and users had majority adoption of the software the feature required to use the feature.

as for trying to at the end portray i continue to use bitcoin because i must paradoxically like the new gateways into altnets. sorry but no. i like bitcoin for its legacy utility. not its segwit sidesteps into altnets.
i can continue to use bitcoin for its legacy features.

i dislike the groups that want to tarnish and limit bitcoins legacy features just so they can sell their altnet proposition. i dislike the sidesteps of broken promises that dont help the legacy features scale by groups that want people to move over to an altnet by their propaganda that bitcoins legacy features are broke and limited, even when that group are the ones limiting bitcoins legacy features from scaling.

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one last thing..
when i say i. its not because i am the only one. . i say i because i speak for myself. there are others, thousands of others that speak for themselves even when others agree with the stuff i say. i do not try to claim "we" are all united as a chummy group of superiority like a special egotist boys club.

i would rather have thousands of independent minds agreeing independently, than have a "we" centralised sheeple group singing from the same hymn sheet, hugging and ass kissing each other like a collective of robots.

P.S
i had another 4 messages deleted today. but before you get excited thinking its content related.. sorry but all 4 were merges.