Topic: BARR dev does not appreciate humour. brief analysis of BARR process. (Read 1585 times)

locking this to prevent more lolz

i haven't come to a full conclusion on the BARR teams motivation vs seeming economic naivety.
but have put a series of observations into the OP.

not sure what you're trying to say.
it's very easy to take language out of context and make it seem like someone contradicts themselves.

quick copy/paste edit later..


oh, look at that ,
haha i made runpaint say something silly and i can pretend it means something . lol now i get all the cookies !!

what a pissy attack. lol
such snide insinuations.

it's all in my quote,
buy a 10k bsc voucher for auction .. give that voucher to bsc dev. exchange wallet is offline so no burn for BARR.

haha but runpaint is all pissy and whiney that you can buy 10k bsc for far less than his pump price. and still use it to buy stuff.

no mention of how much of his 2,000,000 BSC was bought below the pump price but still exchanged at his inflated pump price.
hypocrisy much??

So if someone tries to convince you they just burned $3200 worth of BSC, remember they probably bought if for far less than the current market rate.

lol. i just noticed this.
yep, i can dump all the bumba i have control over anytime i want, which goes nowhere the > 95% of the entire coin supply taht you control and can dump whenever you want

a trustless system, that deters you ?
trustless and deter shouldnt be together in that sentence. you know that?

a trustless system would mean it was impossible for you to dump, there would be no deterrence, there would be impossibility.

it's not impossible for me to dump bumba, therefore it relies on trust that i don't dump teh bumba
it's not impossible for you to dump barr, therefore it relies on trust that you don't dump the barr

you don't have trustless accountability.

here's a simple question

if you hold 1million ACP,

is it better for the swap ratio between BARR:ACP to be set at 60 or 600 sats?
which answer will return you a higher amount of BARR?

600 sats is better as it will return you a higher amount of BARR.

edit.
these answers are mirrored here, as the same questions appeared in two seperate threads

---



lol. great defense.
he made me do it!! he was on MY thread!!
i'm innocent!!


and there you go again impugning again my good person. shame on you.
my posts were neither troll nor showed evidence that i could not read. such a false dichotomy.







there's a great quote somewhere saying how ACP was trading at 60 sats.
until you pumped it.
then swapped it.








yes, i told you earlier that we were creating artificial demand by doing that.
that is not the problem with what you are doing.








we never claimed to have a trustless system, as you have.


yes, if you dump, people can see where the coins come from.
you do not have a trustless system










top 25 addresses, vs your 3 addresses ??
i have no idea what the rest of your richlists looks like


looks like i own #6 and #8 , about 13% lol bodgey maths/  6.5%
plus i have maybe 5% on exchange <--not sure about that figure.




Let's see how a pro answers:









you don't have trustless accountability.

you have an open ledger, so does bumbacoin, we just don't have arbitrary data.
we never bothered cos we lack any delusions of grandeur,
although it would be nice, but can't honestly see the need.

at the moment we have multiple addresses because thats' how it's happened,
change addresses have been a big reason for it,
the swap happened over a year ago, would be surprising if we'd never moved any coins.

lets put all the coins in address A.
let's send some coins for purpose X.
now the remaining funds, ie the change from this transaction, has gone to address B. etc,

so, let's put all the funds in addresses A B C, then we can leave most of the coins in their declared addresses when we move coins.
yes we could use coin control, but i  use daemons by preference which lack coin control features.
yes, i could craft transactions incoroporating specified change address as origin address, but, i havent. much easier just sending them...

and as you love to point out. all the tx are there on the blockchain for anyone to look at
so, in conclusion, we do have the same level of trustless accountability if anyone wants to dig through the chain. lol

ACP was trading at 600 sats.
We swapped at 600 sats.


http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/anarchistsprime/









When you show up to someone's ANN and say they shouldn't be doing certain things,
be ready for them to point out that you're doing the exact same things.

You're the one who accused yourself.






Why did you burn CLOT when it had an active dev?






Why are you asking us to burn a coin with an active dev?





Why are you burning a coin with active devs?





Your coin is an X11 clone.





Nothing you have done has made your coin a success either.





But you are selling things in a marketplace for Bumba, so why did you bring it up since you say it's no different from what you're doing yourself?

https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/MarketPlace?categoryId=0¤cyId=211&locationId=0&sortBy=Title&searchTerm=&type=All%20Items





We're using a better system than you're using:



You could dump any amount of Bumba you wanted at any time, while our decentralized trustlessly transparent accountability deters us from doing that.






Your website has a link to your thread, and you haven't posted anything to it in over 2 months:

https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Forum/Thread/338?page=2






That was your criticism when I asked for transparency from Digital Credits.
You say I'm trolling a shitcoin.




So you're trolling a shitcoin?  Except you're following me around to several different threads.

Have you said anything about me that doesn't apply better to yourself?





...so that's a "no"?







And yet all of our undistributed funds are always available for anyone to see on the blockchain, in our easily-found address, while you're holding millions of premined Bumbacoins and you don't even mention the addresses in your ANN.





Kind of like how the top addresses hold 63% of Bumbacoins and you haven't said which addresses you control?

http://blockchain.bumbacoin.com/richlist





But I didn't launch those coins myself, and I wasn't their dev.

You burned a coin that you launched and were in full control of, and you selected everything about the burn process yourself.





That's a great description of your swap of CLOT for BUMBA.





Let's see how a pro answers:



Very informative!





And you set the swap ratio when you burned CLOT for BUMBA.





And there has never been any BARR dumped.  But what did you have to say about that?






And what else?







But now the only excuse for your burn process and leftover coins is "I'm honest!  I've never dumped the Bumbacoin premine! (yet)"

Unlike the Bumbacoin premine, the BARR Burn Fund has never moved a single coin from its single address without an attached message showing txids for burned altcoins.

Why do you have multiple premine addresses and multiple "dev fund" addresses for Bumbacoin?  Why can't you have trustless transparent accountability like BARR does?






Obviously mistaking being trustworthy for a trustless situation.



Just take this as the answer for your next hundred stupid questions:

cool. well i am a trustworthy dev.
(the only trust issues anyone has accused me of has been those you created with no basis )

so my new shitcoin will have 99% premine, and i will be investing real money heavily into this.
you can trust me, because whilst the process will not be clear where the money actually comes from or goes to.
the new blockchain will show me with mad coinz.
therefore you can trust me




no.
that's because you have the advantage. no-one else.

just because you keep saying there is none, does not change the fact.
just because you feel you're not taking advantage does not change the fact.
you maybe 100% legit and doing this with the purest intentions and divine guidance, doesn't change the fact.

what i keep getting from you, is that because you're not being dodgy, therefore there is no possible perception of dodgyness.

what i continue to say, is that there is an easily perceived possible dodgyness in the process.

short story : or what seems to be happening in this discussion

bumbacoin : hey i saw a magican sawing a woman in half.
runpaint : no it's not possible that you thought you saw it, because he didnt, and the objective truth makes subjective perspective impossible
bumbacoin : it truly looked like a magician sawing a woman in half.
runpaint : no it's not possible that you thought you saw it, because he didnt, and the objective truth makes subjective perspective impossible
bumbacoin : but that's the whole point of illusion
runpaint : no it's not possible that you thought you saw it, because he didnt, and the objective truth makes subjective perspective impossible
bumbacoin : haha, i enjoyed watching it and i'm going again tomorrow
runpaint: good luck with that. you must be a bit dim to have a subjective perspective. meanwhile, i really enjoy chocolate ice-cream, would you like some?
bumbacoin : no, i;ll have vanilla
runpaint : that's not possible, i like chocolate ice cream.
bumbacoin : i like vanilla ice cream
runpaint : that's not possible, i like chocolate ice cream.
.....
...
..
.





i'm sorry, i've added in bold how the statment should have been worded. (see that, that's how you admit mistakes)

you'll need to give those particular answers.
they could be very enlightening, especially your second comment.
if you answered truthfully





sometimes i wonder if you're being deliberately obtuse.
i figure you just go through cherrypicking phrases then taking them out of context and acting all surprised.





i'm not trying to be rude. but this seems to be a big flag as to your naivety.

noob1: hi, i'm going to invest in a coin where the coin devs hold the vast majority of that coin
cynicaltrader1: you should be concerned that the devs will dump their vast holdings without warning
noob1: oh, but i read the ANN and the devs say they're honest, it looks like a good coin
troll1: fancy that, a self-proclaimed honest dev. i'd go all in if i were you
cynicaltrader1: i wouldn't go near that coin. but i might keep an eye on their pre-pump plans





honestly. good luck





yes, you can't lose such honest advantage.

and not at the same time. that was explained earlier
first , high to benefit yourself with shitcoins you hold
then once you're out
second, low to benefit your current holdings in Barr by reducing Barr inflation.





and your Barr holdings are not diluted as much. win for you.






ACP was trading at 60 sats,
you swapped at 600 sats,
whether you like it or not, you artifically created that value, the process created artificial value.

and your statement is simplistic,
no crypto=currency creates artificial value, that'd be impossible, people who trade those coins create the artificial value.





..
it might be advantageous to have the Barr_official user sign at the end of the post, so it's easy to differentiate between who's typing
 - bumba

No, we're only doing BowsCoin this month.

IS BARR burning bumbacoin? I forgot to ask.

I wouldn't invest in something that the dev doesn't invest in himself.





Do all investors get the exact same "advantage"?

If everyone gets the same benefit, isn't that the opposite of advantage?






We announce what the coin will be, and we don't stop anyone else from buying it.
It makes no difference whether other people buy the coins and burn them, or we buy the coins and burn them.
We just want the coins burned, and we have to do it ourselves until more people start participating.






When did we start buying ACP?  Please, tell me.

How many other coins did we start buying to secure quantity, that we ran nodes for, that we mined their chains, that didn't end up working out?






So now we have to pay MORE than the swap ratio?  Paying ACP holders up to 10 times the market rate for their coins isn't enough?






I don't know what you are calling "the problem", but the main problem is that we're spending all our own money.






Other than forcing people to buy BARR, the best plan is probably to keep doing what we're doing until more people take notice.








Only if the price of BARR goes up.  The swap ratio will still give an equal value.

But you can't worry that we're not paying enough for coins and also that we're paying too much for coins at the same time.

If we set the exchange rate high, you say we're benefiting ourselves.
If we set the exchange rate lower, you say we're benefiting ourselves.
So, we'll just have to keep doing what we do, the best way we can.







I don't think I implied that.





#1, Other people have owned all the coins we've already burned.

#2, if the swap isn't a good deal, they don't have to take it.  Problem solved.






Since the "advantage" is enjoyed by all holders, it's not an advantage.
If early adopters end up getting an advantage, then it will be similar to PoW coins.

We could've burned a coin that we weren't holding, but that would create at least 2 problems:
#1, bad results and not burning much of the coin's supply
#2, holding our own coins while trying to burn other people's coins.  
And then you'd be here saying, "You're holding Unitus and Fractalcoin and Keycoin, those are shitcoins so why should anyone else burn their coins when you're not willing to burn the ones you already have?"







BARR is the only cryptocurrency that doesn't create artificial value where none existed before.

All other coins create money from nothing, while BARR never issues a single coin unless an equivalent value is subtracted from an existing coin.

That's why PoW coins constantly lose value - because they require new money to come in from outside crypto to buy those new coins, every 60 seconds.  And there's not enough new money coming in, because the markets are overloaded with redundant clones that all do the same thing.  

BARR is the only coin that doesn't require new money coming in, because we're working with money that's already in the crypto market.






If you read the ANN, you'll see that the entire project was designed from the start with that in mind.
We don't have hundreds of people demanding proof of what we've burned, but we provide the proof anyway to avoid the appearance of dishonesty.







Just like Bitcoin, I'm from the internet.

would you invest in an alt where the dev /dev team own a vast majority of coins?
also, in this case, where it seems that the swap protocol is advantaging that team.

the seeming advantage is NOT just because you're investing real money, but because the process uses what results in a pre-pump to attain a new value and hence a more advantageous swap value.

ie if you buy at 20, pump, then swap at 50, your pump gives you an advantage swap value than if you swapped at 20.
then if you personally held a large quantity of those coins, the improved swap ratio is very appreciable.

this is what it looked like with ACP, where you bought quantities of coin before it was officially announced, and below the final swap ratio.

this is what it can look like no matter how you argue real money nor motivations.

you say, the barr team owns most of the addresses, but they are not obviously obvious. if you want a long term coin, it is advantageous to build trust by revealing them.
yes you can follow every transaction, but block chains do not lend themselves to easy analysis. once you have multiple hundreds of transactions of Barr that task will be more tedious than it is now with ony 125 transactions.

most investors are cynical. either looking at a short term pump, or judging motivations and behaviours behind the coin etc.


have you considered the problem of the coin team owning so many coins, and do you have a plan to spread the distribution ratios?
this question was slightly mangled in it's prior form as number 3. :p

a strong appearing coin is one thing, but if it's foundations are weak then the likelihood is that it will not succeed.


you seem to misunderstand the swap ratio issue, to an extent i've hopefully expanded more above.

but the other point, is that according to your plan, there will be less Barr distributed for later coin swaps. - resulting in a lower swap ratio
this also corresponds with coins that you will personally own less of as you are now apparently out of bags. - quite possibly resulting in a lower swap count, and cynically can be seen as a reason not to pump a coin so high.
and also you seem to imply that future pumps will not be anywhere near exciting as you will not be investing btc in the same manner. - resulting in a lower swap ratio


this will result in you receiving a far better swap ratio for the coins that you personally ownedand have swapped, than future others will for coins they own.

whether this system is deliberately planned to advantage you or not, you have a strong advantage by burning your personal coins first.
it is not the swap itself, it is the manipulation of market price and setting of ratio's that create that advantage.


--
you continue to trumpet monetary values, and how strong Barr will be. yet you claim zero profit.
that is entirely true, until you decide to sell all the coins, that from a cynical perspective, you have artificially created a market price for whilst advantaging yourself to get those coins.


--
i am coming to these questions/viewpoints from a cynical perspective.
through your answers i get a lesser cynical view. you seem to be usefully attempting to add value. but to what end i do not hazard to guess.

obviously the methodology in any system can be questioned.
at this point, i would like to strongly point out that it is incredibly easy to look cynically at Barr and that any work you do towards making it less cynical will be to your advantage.

lol. you're still a troll though

lol. i appreciate this point.

thanks for answering .
i'll read it and post later.

Most of them.  What is the point of that question? 

There's no way to hide BARR, because one click shows every account that holds it.

There's no way to hide how it was distributed, because another click shows every transaction that's ever been sent from the burn fund, and every transaction has a message attached showing which altcoins were burned to earn that BARR, as well as the altcoin txid going to the burn address.

Just looking at who is holding BARR doesn't tell you who burned altcoins, because some people burned their altcoins and ended up selling their BARR to someone else.






The value of what BARR does for the crypto community is immeasurable.

Monetarily, it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I've personally paid over 11,000 satoshis for it, earlier this week.







What does that even mean?  "More economically palatable" would mean "cheaper", and BARR is already the most efficient cryptocurrency in existence.






Well if it's not the distribution that inspires confidence, it must be something else that brought $30,000 worth of coins to BARR.






None, we've put 100% of all BTC, NXT, and altcoins into BARR. 
Except for some Lyrabar that I couldn't withdraw from C-Cex in time for the deadline, but that's not on our swap list anymore.






If I'm doing it for altruistic motives, it's self-centered?

Which behavior do you think seems self-centered? 






We do have a website and an ANN where all this has been covered thoroughly. 

If it was possible to buy 40% of a coin's entire supply without moving the market up, we would do that.  It's not possible in most cases.

Most altcoins steadily lose value, meaning that any given altcoin probably has most holders losing money at any given time.
Some holders are unwilling to sell for less than they paid, or at least they want to get more than the current rate. 
If they didn't want more, they would have already sold.

So if there is a buy order at C-Cex for BowsCoin at 25 satoshis, but a given holder does not sell his coins at that price, then he is unlikely to sell us his coins at that price.  He is also unlikely to exchange those same BowsCoins for 25 satoshis worth of BARR. 

Here is a dramatized depiction of the process:


Holder:  "I could sell my coins at C-Cex for 25 satoshis, but I am not willing to do that."
BARR:  "Would you sell or swap your coins to BARR for 25 satoshis?"
Holder:  "No."
BARR:  "Then how can we get your coins, if you are unwilling to exchange them at the rate of 25 satoshis?"
Holder:  "Pay more."
BARR:  "Ok."
bumbacoin:  "What?  Why???  Why are you doing this?"


You see, we want their coins.  We're trying to get, or "acquire", those coins.  But those people want money.
They don't want to give away their coins for free, because they paid money for those coins. 
So we pay them for their coins (also known as "buying"). 

Or, they can burn their own coins and we'll redeem those coins with BARR.
But, again, they would rather have a larger amount of money instead of a smaller amount of money.
Apparently (and this seems to be supported by our experiences so far), more people will be willing to give up more coins when the price is higher.

It turns out that supply and demand have an effect on prices and markets. 
It's actually studied by some people, there is a lot of good reading material out there if you're interested.






It's not artificial.  It costs real money. 

The increase in price due to decreased supply is not artificial either. 
When there are 200,000 coins for sale at 25 satoshis, the price cannot go higher until those coins are bought.
After we've bought those coins - and we never put them back on the market -
that barrier has been removed and those 200,000 coins aren't keeping the price down anymore.








Well that is one of our goals;  we want BARR to succeed and not to fail. 

It is bizarre and nonsensical for you to "accuse us" of having a good plan.
There are plenty of altcoins with stupid plans, such as 10,000% interest, that ensure a bad future for holders.
It would make sense to comment on those coins and point out that their plans are unlikely to be successful.
But your complaint is, "You're trying to make your coin valuable!"

We aren't doing anything for ourselves that we're not doing for every other holder.

What we are doing is following our plan which has been spelled out since October at barr.me/how

BARR gets more difficult to earn as time goes on and as the price increases, similar to PoW block reward halving. 

We could not save Fractalcoin, Keycoin, Sapience, Unitus, and all the other coins we've burned. 
We can't prevent them all from being delisted, we can't prevent their blockchains from dying. 
We tried.
But it wasn't going to work, so we thought about swapping Fractalcoin to a new coin, like Fractalcoin 2.0.
(And yes, the main people getting Fractalcoin 2.0 would be Fractalcoin holders.  That's how a swap works.)
But then we realized it would still be a half-dead shitcoin that nobody wants, even if we kept the blockchain alive.

So we came up with the only way available to us that would allow us to save 100% of everyone's coins who wanted to participate.
And that's exactly what we've done. 
And Fractalcoin, Keycoin, Sapience, and Unitus did get delisted.  But BARR didn't, and everyone who swapped their coins can still trade.







We've set up a public voting system.  It's just like a dev mining his own coin - if nobody else is mining, the only options are to do it yourself or let it die.

Defining our own protocols is the same as a dev defining the block target time, the algorithm, and the block reward.

Yes, a dev who owns sha256 asics is more likely to choose sha256 for his algo. 
But he's not giving himself any advantage over other people who also own asics.

There are plenty of people in every coin we've burned who got their coins cheaper than us.
There are plenty of people who mined those coins, maybe got their coins for free.
We can't control that, and we're not trying to. 
We're just offering a swap to any and all holders of these altcoins. 
It's very simple, and I haven't heard you suggest any better ways of doing it.

I believe you conducted a coin swap for your own coin, didn't you?
Didn't you choose to swap only for the coin you wanted to swap, which you were already holding?
Didn't you set the exchange rate, at 43:1?

Did you do anything yourself that you are now criticizing us for?

We've looked at all the known ways of doing it, and we think we covered a lot of angles.
Nautilus recently swapped to a new coin, and they had a 5-step swap process that included sending multiple screenshots.
All it takes for BARR is to message us and then send your altcoins straight to the burn address.
We would love to have the technology to make the initial distribution fully decentralized, but it's truly impossible for many reasons.
But after someone gets BARR, their coins are just as decentralized as any other cryptocurrency. 






Because we've spent thousands of dollars, put it all into BARR, and never sold any BARR at all.  Where's the profit?







Are you accusing me of wanting to make my own coin stronger? 

As for what happens to altcoins after we're done burning them, it's none of our concern because we burned all of ours.

You have some fixation on us making altcoins stronger, but if we did then they wouldn't be shitcoins anymore would they?

Although there's a possibility they'll get stronger, we don't think it's likely. 
If nobody was buying at a low price, there probably won't be many people buying at twice the price.  Selling, sure, but we try to buy all of that.
And then after we're done buying, it's right back where it started.

We make it very clear - on our ANN and our website - that we strongly recommend all holders to burn their altcoins.
And we practice what we preach, and we've been proven right several times:

All Keycoin and Fractalcoin holders who didn't swap for BARR have nowhere to trade.
Unitus and Sapience are headed the same way.

But it's not that we take full credit for getting rid of these coins;
We think most of them are going to die anyway.  Historical altcoin performance supports that.
But while they're taking their time dying, they're draining the markets and taking away from all other crypto projects too.
So what we're doing is giving them a push. 
If they survive, they'll probably be stronger in the long term with a reduced supply.
If we help them go away faster, we've helped some holders and helped the overall market.






Right now this is runpaint posting.  runpaint has always been my personal account, and so we wanted an official account for official swap business.
We do have a person who's never had another bitcointalk account, so BARR_Official was going to be their name, but it was supposed to be a shared account that anyone could use to answer messages, update the ANN, etc.
But between my several computers, work, home, my cell phone, I just started posting on whatever I was logged-in with, even if it was to argue.

from what i've seen, he seems nice enough as long as you remember to wish him luck and respect Barr above all other shitcoin swapping protocols.

on the surface Barr seems a good idea.

i'm just looking forward to him addressing the 'questionable and suspicious' behaviour that has resulted in him owning 61% of the Barr, using protocols that very obviously create the very 'advantage' he doesn't see existing.

Wouldn't a 12-inch cock work better? 

Seriously, though I am all for burning shitcoins so I can't say I'm not at least a tad interested in it. IIRC I even spoke with BARR_Official in his thread when the project first began and he was a pretty nice guy that answered my questions. I never looked too much further into it, but only because it is a NXT asset and I'm not into Java wallets at all.

See, these coin burners got senses of humors. 

Not touching that first question with a 20 foot fag pole.

lol. seeing as how you can't quite seem to see the problems raised here.
here's some questions.

1. which NXT accounts holding Barr/Offs do you or other team members own?

2. given you seem to own 61%, what do you consider as the real value of Barr?

3. do you have a plan to create a more economically palatable model of distribution? the current distribution does not inspire confidence in the real value of Barr.

4. what other coins on your proposed swap list do you or other team members baghold? if you're doing this for truly altruistic motives, your behaviour so far seems self centered.

5. what is your purpose in pumping the alts prior to swap? it seems that artificially pumping the market value of alts that you personally hold, does a lot to improve your personal future Barr holdings by improving the swap ratio.

6. do you still see that being the dev of Barr, choosing the coin swaps gives you no advantage? choosing all the coins, defining the swap protocols.

7. how do you measure your swap process and come to this conclusion of no profit? you seem to enjoy the fact that you're making shitcoins and Barr stronger through these swaps.

8. is Barr_official used by a different person? it seems confusing going through the history of postings and does not do much to add clarity to your threads/discussions.



i've mirrored these questions here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13809297

Are you saying that having a certain skin color automatically makes people inferior, or is that only when they are gay cocksuckers?

We're always looking for ways to improve our project, so it would be helpful if you could tell us what color our skin should be, and which sex acts we should avoid, in order to improve ourselves as human beings as well as cryptocurrency developers.

And then we'll be glad to answer any questions, although there haven't been any questions so far in this topic.