Topic: BCH bleeding death? - page 3. (Read 2587 times)

BCH is worthless to be honest, the new bitcoin fork bitcoin gold be the new hype project. So people will invest BCG instead of BCH. Avoid buying BCH.

I agree all forks of Satoshi’s protocol must eventually die, including BTCSegWit and BCH. But the question is what happens between now and that final outcome.

Dash is a masternode obfuscated centralized controlled scam.

Litecoin is SegWit.

Neither of which have Bitcoin’s airdropped distribution.

BCH is pure Satoshi Bitcoin (no SegWit) except with an 8MB block size and a faster difficulty adjustment. BCH is supported by the largest Bitcoin mining concern.

BTCSegWit is at $5700 nosebleed and is polluted with SegWit, no longer a pure Satoshi protocol unless we assume all the SegWit transactions are to be double-spent as future donations to the miners.

Please be factual in your statements.


Are you going to take profits out of BTCSegWit at $6000+ into LTC, NEO, ETH, XMR which are all near an ATH or into BCH which is near an ATL   Seems like a no brainer decision to me. I like to sell high and buy low.

The best speculators buy when everyone else is panic selling. I’m hoping for one more leg up in BTCSegWit and one more leg down in BCH.

It should die. It's taking up good capital. Dash and lite coin have already accomplished everything that it could hope to do.

Wouldn’t that indicate it is the most counter-correlated to BTC 

Aren’t we supposed to buy what is panic sold and sell what is panic bought 


ftfy.

Nope, not all the altcoins are going down. It is just bitcoin cash which is about to die very soon. There was a time when people thought that it was going to defeat bitcoin. Bitcoin is making progress nowadays and I don't think so that other altcoins are declining either. Everyone is expecting profits from ethereum, monero, neo, waves, litecoins and it will happen.

I think most of Bitcoinfork coin will die in near future.

SegWit2X is probably deleterious. It splits the SegWit supporters probably causing some of them to fight each other and/or confusion. (getting them to split their mining resources probably helps with any future attack on one of the two forks)

Bitcoin Gold is not Bitcoin at all. It changes the proof-of-work algorithm which means it has no mining cartels of significance behind it.

BCH is the only semi-legitimate airdrop fork of Bitcoin. It provides a counter-correlated hedge against BTC peaking and then declining in price. LTC also provides this, and also offers SegWit for those who still think SegWit is important.

My expectation has been that BTC would moon first, then LTC, and then BCH.

SegWit will die a fiery death. And Bitcoin gold will be insignificant.

Hopefully at the end of all this BTC = TRB (aka Satoshi’s protocol with no SegWit). A block size increase or not is okay with me, but no increase is better for protecting immutability.

Bitcoin cash may reach single digit when new coin introduce after next fork it’s just the game of whales you can take profit now to reduce your loss . I think it’s not heathy move for bitcoin because lots of fork happening.

n00bs have no clue.

They want transaction scaling on the reserve currency of crypto which makes no sense because it violates the immutability and sacrifices security which are the key attributes that gives the reserve currency its stature as compared to altcoins.

The transaction scaling is available on altcoins and on exchanges.

That n00bs think SegWit is better because it adds more features exemplifies how they are technologically ignorant sheep who wilfully (boisterously and even belligerently) want to be deceived into to making donations to the miners as I explained in my prior post.

BCH gave the n00bs what they wanted which is an increase in block size (some fixed amount of transaction capacity increase), without destroying the security as SegWit does. It is at a higher same stature as any other airdrop, because it has the backing of the large mining cartels. It is probably just a decoy and not superior to the The Real Bitcoin (TRB = no SegWit), but it is certainly better than the SegWit insecure crapola which encourages users to spend their transactions to “pay to anyone” on TRB (aka BTCSatoshi) protocol which will probably ultimately prevail.


That is what they said when LTC was at $6 and they also said “WTF?” when Byteball was $1 million marketcap and I recommended nibbling on it.

How about we wait until the end game to take an accounting? By my book, I am already at 100X gains since the start of this year in terms of my recommendations.

Btw, a phase transition mooning is the time to sell, not the time to buy. But please do buy more BTCSegWit at $8000, lol. (And please tell us about it boastfully while pounding your chest)

P.S. $5600 to $8000 is < 50% increase. $240ish to $1000 would be 300+% gain. But low, sell high.


Presuming the community of whales would not accept the TRB, then BCH is the closest to BTCSatoshi of any fork thus far.

SegWit is not even close to being Bitcoin, unless we assume the SegWit transactions are donations to miners. In which case, yes SegWit is Bitcoin and it is a donation system which Blockstream created so that all the n00bs can be stripped of their BTC in the form of donations to miners.

Lol at Hyperme.sh posts above.  BCH supporters talking like crazy nutcases now that Bitcoin is mooning while the dumping of BCH continues.  

Of course this was as expected the bitcoin community dont want any new token that is a copy paste of bitcoin in the this businesses is nothing without there customers the users clearly choose bitcoin instead of BCH that is fijded centralized corporate entity. This will become another airdrop a free money for bitcoin investor and then convert the new token to bitcoin, well be seeing some bullish price again.

Here is a version of the Blockstream koolaid deception and lies:


The above is how a Blockhead would spread disinformation and propaganda.

The truth is that SegWit was a change that violated the immutability of Bitcoin if it is assumed that miners will not treat the transactions as “pay to anyone”. The Real Bitcoin refuses to honor that change because it demands we do not fall down that slippery slope of mutating Bitcoin. So stealing[accepting the donations] from the fools who “pay to anyone” is honoring the immutable protocol of Bitcoin. Yet a Blockhead would try to play politics and equate protecting the immutability with doing the opposite.

In-fucking-credulous!

And for a follow-up it, the propaganda gets even more twisted:


It is not a valid point. Those who make donations to miners in order to fund the blockchain are very generous and appreciated. Miners who honor Satoshi’s protocol gladly accept those donations. There is no lie/deception on their part. Blockheads are lying about the reality of what immutability means.

We can suppose his point is that two wrongs don’t make it right or that stealing is always immoral. But it belies an understanding of contract law and reality. The deception was initiated by Blockstream who made people believe that donations were transactions. Society can’t function if we reward deception by giving retards and rapefugees a vote. If the protocol says one thing, and some fools do another thing, they are culpable, not society.

How the heck is your average Joe Blow (like me) going to be able to use BTC effectively such as trading on exchanges for altcoins and fiat, if they need to enforce TRB protocol and insure no SegWit booty is in the lineage of their transactions?

I think I read on the Trilema logs in the past some comment about any SegWit in the lineage would be safe after one re-spend mixing it with non-SegWit lineage, but I do not see how that is the case? If SegWit is in the lineage, then all the downstream transactions become invalid when the upstream SegWit transaction is stolen by a mining cartel.

Thus I do not see how BTC can continue in this state of purgatory. There needs to be a resolution of the SegWit trojan horse.

And I doubt very much if Core and this website have even 1/10th of the resources at their disposal as compared the whales who understand that without security and immutability, then Bitcoin is not worthy. They can’t even keep this website up against DDoS attacks.


Yes if you obtained BTC that has no pollution in its lineage (or you bought it long ago), but how do you determine if any of the lineage included a BTC spend for BCH trade where in the attacking miners control the private keys for that BTC and can double-spend it. They might have even loaded that BTC into an exchange and will double-spend on the exchange effecting some many people on exchanges (if that aspect of my theory is valid).

I view it as a huge headache and distraction. I am getting exasperated with Bitcoin. Wish they could get their shit together.


An attack on SegWit changes the landscape (although that might not come until months from now, if ever). Miners move to where they can earn the most profit.

Political posturing could possibly be only for plausible deniability.


Why you “hope it never happens”? I hope it happens!

A huge opportunity to buy cheap and get rid of that insecure crap. Who wouldn’t want to load up on BTC at $1000 after selling at $5000+ and riding BCH from $100 up to $1000   Do you hate making money my friend?


Lol. Great. Couldn’t happen to nicer group of Hitlers who hijacked Bitcoin with deception. Why didn’t they just go create their own altcoin like the rest of us are doing? Because they are special Hitlers.


One of the many reasons I think of is that Gregory Maxwell is presumably of German ancestry (but note I do too but mixed with French, Welsh, and native American). I wasn’t the only person who noticed this schizophrenic, wolf-in-sheepskin wannabe-overlord mentality (some Redditard threads about it). On a less personal analysis, I think they did not have other options other than making an altcoin which they felt was beneath them. And because I think they thought their goals were to find clever (over engineered! not K.I.S.S. principle) ways to side-step Bitcoin’s transaction volume scaling issue. Mix all those factors together and apparently we get Frankenchain (although some may try to argue that SegWit is wonderful and safe). Again a rule-of-thumb in software engineering is complexity kills. And the founder of Trilema had a scalding thread on BCT explaining his anger about how the Core devs were incompetent, adding unnecessary complexity, and not developing a specification (the code was the only specification) formalism. He was pointing out that getting the foundation perfected and clean was a higher priority than attaching bells & whistle experiments.


I replied to your post at the poll thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.22930821


EDIT: it should be pointed out that miners have an incentive to support a non-segwit chain even if there is no chain reorganization, because they can attempt to take that ongoing SegWit value for themselves, because as viewed from Satoshi’s protocol, this is a “pay to anyone” transaction. A chain reorganization is a way to capture historic booty and lock miners into the fork with the incentive of the booty to jumpstart the consensus around taking SegWit for the miners. So it is not quite accurate to state that SegWit requires a contentious fork. It merely requires that miners act in their best interests to protect Satoshi’s protocol and the immutability and security of Bitcoin for the maximum long-term value of their hardware investment, as well as maximizing their profit in the short-term. SegWit supporters argue that this is an attack on the community, but rather SegWit enemies argue it a protection against the SegWit attack on Bitcoin.

Another very important factor to consider is that I explained why the miners are owned by the whales and others explained that mining is a horrible business to be in unless you have a plan for world domination. Tie that together with my exposition on why proof-of-work has to become run by a mining oligarchy else it fails to converge as transaction fees increase. Then you can analyse who is into mining and why.  

I do not have very high hopes for bitcoin cash. We will see what happens in time.

But isn't "BTCSegWit" and TRB or BTCSatoshi or however we want to call it on the same team effectively? Even if they don't like each other, since both share the legacy chain (and both MP's crew and Core don't want to hardfork the legacy chain, so that is a huge stake against hardforkers because Core devs are pretty loaded too and ready to dump on forks, plus control bitcoin.org which is the highest ranked website for "bitcoin" and warn noobs about hardforks), as long as you are holding BTC in legacy addresses and not segwit addresses, you will not have any BTC stolen in case SegWit ever goes south, and you will keep recieving any further hardfork-coins (like Bitcoin Gold coming soon, 2x or whatever).

So I don't see the problem. Just hold BTC in legacy chain in legacy format addresses for max protection against this type of events. This is another test of strength for BTC. It should survive 2x, if it does then I don't think any of the forks will have much relevancy. We will find out soon. I think enough hashrate will be mining legacy chain to survive a potential attack. f2pool is signaling "intention" for 2x for example, but they will not actually mine it. I don't know what the super whales are doing, but they should also be working to incentivize miners into keep mining the legacy chain so I predict other miners that signed the NYA will keep mining legacy. What they aren't going to do is support any fork just because it doesn't have segwit.

PS: I didn't dump 100% of my BCH so if it pumps then cool. Left some basically because I know Roger and co have a ton of money too and figured they would try to pump it too eventually. But they may jump ship and join 2x at least temporarily to cause damage on legacy chain and try to market BCH as a safe place, with these guys you never know. In fact this seems to be the case already with Roger saying he will list 2x as BTC on his website:

https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/issues/1835#issuecomment-334869248

PS2: The damage of segwit going south would indeed be brutal for the whole ecosystem and yet to be seen if BTC as a whole would survive it if there is a ton of segwit adoption. Let's hope it never happens. Like I said I will be holding my main stack on legacy format so im not worried, but the price crash would be obvious and pretty much everyone on Core would be on suicide watch after a such a fuck up.
As a non programmer, I never understood why all these people which are supposed to be super smart, would all gamble with the project they've put endless hours at, their entire careers, and potentially their lives because there would be a lot of pissed off people at them if it happens. So I assumed the chances of segwit fucking up are unrealistic, otherwise I just fail to understand it. Why would they all be for segwit if the fuck up is a realistic scenario?

Some additional points of discussion:

• Coinbase dump of BCH may be impacting the price?
• The community support for SegWit may not be as significant as the illusion it appears to be. All the whales I know of, hate SegWit. Millions of BTC decides, not minnows. Bitmain agreed to help SegWit become reality, but Jihan Wu obviously has some strategy in play.
• There are many whales who hate you minnows for being so stupid about SegWit and they are quite ready to support the miners that are going to punish you. Cryptocurrency is not a democracy where everybody (including UASF/UAHF retards and rapefugees) gets 1 vote. That is the first thing you need to learn that support of lunch money investors such as the following are irrelevant:
  
  
  Quote from: arbitrage on October 12, 2017, 08:24:48 AM
  I never gave support nor showed simpaties for this coin becuse it was direct fist in face of BTC
  
• Changing the proof-of-work renders the coin not Bitcoin any more, as the majority of mining hardware (by hashrate) in the world suddenly can not mine it. Which is more or less conceding the chain reorganization to the victor.
• Might take more months or never occur. Bottom may be $300, $200, or even $100. My popcorn is ready. I find it very exciting. I would love to see so many people lose their BTC. It is a perfect way to teach people to stop disrespecting people who try to be helpful and who are knowledgeable. Reality check to the arrogant/overconfident Bitcoin-SegWit-Blockstream maximalists who think they know everything. No we didn’t just give up, we are quiet awaiting SegWit to blow up as we think it will in any of numerous ways.
• I don’t have any particular affinity for Bitmain, I just think the deception and poor engineering decisions of Blockstream and the insecure crap they keep foisting on Bitcoin is objectively much worse. We expect the market to prove this to be correct.
• I don’t know if BCH has any quality engineering, but it really does not need much because it is basically a clone of pre-SegWit Bitcoin, with a few simple tweaks.
• A massive rollback to August 4th would devastate the cryptocurrency economy creating another crypto winter equivalent to Mt. Gox (which had 75% of the exchange market). Sales of BTC acquired via a SegWit transaction or downstream of a BTC paid for BCH could potentially be double-spent potentially leading to lawsuits as exchanges tried to clawback money from everyone who double-spent on them. Also ICOs enforcement coming, so yes a crypto winter may be coming. Whales benefit from price decline as they can swoop in to take more of the pie at fire sale prices. The whales decide. Cryptocurrency is not a democracy.

indeed it is going down fast, but in my opinion it will rise after the fork , so I will hold my BCH

seem this is really truth. people still fall in love with bitcoin and doesnt make any move even bch is better

From the present look of things and how much people are really dumping it, I definitely agree with you. However, people can easily change their mind at any time and anything can create a huge buying in for it in future.
I would not want to agree yet that it is dead, even though with less community behind it, community can build up pretty fast than we can imagine with any development, but time will tell.

News Flash Investards: Everyone in crypto is here to profit.

How do they do that ? ..buy / dump.. cash out.

Congratulations you know how crypto works now.. happy "investing"  
What more do you expect ?
XYZ coin was sooooo hyped that all the hoards of profiteer douche bags are going to HODL forever making *YOU* rich ?
Why would they ?
What ? Missed the pattern of jumping from coin to coin for profits ?
It's been that way for ALMOST A DECADE idiots  

Do the same thing for roughly 8 bloody years then expect a different result ?
Ya.. you are brilliant little "investors" hahhahaha

Altcoins