Be very careful and attentive when selling your bitcoins - page 3.

serjent05

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Quote from: Captain Corporate on February 15, 2024, 12:31:36 PM

Honestly, this would be something that does not happen to anyone who knows about trading. Not only we would not pick an exchange like that, people are right that we sell our coins at much better places that has liquidity that could cover 170 coins let alone 1.7 coins. However, we also wouldn't sell at market price neither, we are not stupid, you put the order at the price, and then if its sold then its sold, if not then it stays there until its sold, we do not just say "sell it for whatever", you put out sell order that stays there, and people could buy it whenever they can, which may take time, but at least you do not sell coins for 238 dollars that way. Simple decision really, all traders know this.

It is a rare case but obviously, it can happen to anyone. The key point here is being careless. Even a seasoned trader can make a mistake if he becomes relaxed and doesn't double-check the market prices. People who are used to exchanges that have high liquidity often use market prices for fast transactions, it isn't the exchange's fault that the seller sells his Bitcoin at a loss and it is his fault by not checking the buy order price range so it is a bit biased for some of the replies to call the exchange scammy...

One lesson to learn here, if we are dealing with a huge amount, better check the price range or best set our sell order or buy order to a limit option so that we can set our selling or buying price

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 05:48:34 AM

Hello everyone, I hope you are well.

I came to bring a case that happened in Brazil, an investor wanted to get rid of his bitcoins at the Novadax cryptocurrency brokerage (I've never used it, I can't recommend it, I'm just bringing the news). The fact is that he went to sell 1.7 BTC and generated a market sell order, with the lack of liquidity his orders were executed and consumed the entire order book taking the price to practically zero. He had bitcoins sold at 238 USD.

A huge loss just for not paying attention to selling at the price of the day, maybe he wanted to execute the orders quickly, or he didn't know what he was doing.

So be warned, if you are going to sell, fill out your order correctly at the price you want to sell, never use the "market" price to sell a large amount of bitcoins.

That has happened to me, in the past, when I was still a newbie. And to be honest, I think the same mistake could happen again, if I am not careful.

Low volume exchanges should be avoided like the pest. There is absolutely no point in trading on such crypto exchanges. Avoiding them as well as avoiding using market orders is really the only way to not accidentally repeat the same mistake of trading in all your Bitcoin for peanuts, by mistake.

And to be completely honest, there is no point in market orders. All you are doing is paying more on trading fees because you are considered as a "taker" instead of a "maker".

Just out of curiosity, did this Novadax exchange not have a warning message in place that pops up and warns users when they are about to sell for a much too low price? Because that seems standard for most exchanges. In fact, not providing a warning might be against some regulation, I think. In which case he might be able to get his money back. Although that is a big maybe since I am just going on a guess.

Captain Corporate

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Honestly, this would be something that does not happen to anyone who knows about trading. Not only we would not pick an exchange like that, people are right that we sell our coins at much better places that has liquidity that could cover 170 coins let alone 1.7 coins. However, we also wouldn't sell at market price neither, we are not stupid, you put the order at the price, and then if its sold then its sold, if not then it stays there until its sold, we do not just say "sell it for whatever", you put out sell order that stays there, and people could buy it whenever they can, which may take time, but at least you do not sell coins for 238 dollars that way. Simple decision really, all traders know this.

crwth

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That's definitely his fault not knowing that his exchange has 0 liquidity and the exchange having the last laugh them getting the Bitcoin.

Shouldn't there be an error with it? Or it's enough that the total amount of buy orders for BTC would amount to 1.7BTC but the price rate that they are buying is so low?

Anyway, using the market sell button in a low liquidity exchange is very bad move. Roll Eyes

thecodebear

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Can't feel bad for that. The person went to an exchange that NOBODY uses if a sell order of 1.7 btc crashed the entire order book to nothing lol.

Only rule is don't use exchanges that nobody uses and nobody has heard of haha. Should be obvious to anyone.

Any regular exchange and that sell wouldn't move the price more that at most a few cents. If you're selling so much money its simply the most basic personal responsibility to take a few minutes to figure out what you're doing.

Alana Arden

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This is very sad, but it is a great lesson for him because he may have been too hasty or careless. As a result, he is facing a big loss today. Because losing such funds these days can be really depressing for anyone for a long time.
Although crypto is open to all, it is a complication or barrier for many. So cryptography is not for everyone without proper knowledge. This is why one must do enough research on popular and reputable exchanges before selling BTC. Because popular exchanges usually have high liquidity, when exchanging BTC, take your time, take various precautions and use exchanges with high liquidity, including avoiding third-party transactions.

EL MOHA

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Quote from: Abu-Naim on February 15, 2024, 09:22:22 AM

Order sells is always confusing if you are a newbie. It is not advisable for newbies to use order if they don’t have the knowledge about orders and how it works; the best thing to do is to use market orders just to sell immediately because if you place order and the order is not executed quickly, the price will affect it and some newbies don’t know how to cancel orders because some exchanges are very hard to use as they are not user friendly.

The two problem here is that first, OP used a non popular exchange, and most of this local exchanges that aren’t popular either centralized or decentralized are always short of liquidity and that’s what happened to OP. Even if he had placed the limit order properly it wouldn’t be executed due to that lack or liquidity.

Also I agree with you that newbies Should avoid limit order and just use the Market order, if at all you are targeting a specific price of the coin, it will be better newbies monitor it manually and then open the position when it triggers. That will be safer pending when they understand the market and limit orders properly

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Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 05:48:34 AM

Hello everyone, I hope you are well.

I came to bring a case that happened in Brazil, an investor wanted to get rid of his bitcoins at the Novadax cryptocurrency brokerage (I've never used it, I can't recommend it, I'm just bringing the news). The fact is that he went to sell 1.7 BTC and generated a market sell order, with the lack of liquidity his orders were executed and consumed the entire order book taking the price to practically zero. He had bitcoins sold at 238 USD.

A huge loss just for not paying attention to selling at the price of the day, maybe he wanted to execute the orders quickly, or he didn't know what he was doing.

So be warned, if you are going to sell, fill out your order correctly at the price you want to sell, never use the "market" price to sell a large amount of bitcoins.

This is what you get when you're trying to use such scammy exchanges. Even with big exchanges you can get in trouble: the moment you move your coins to the exchange you lose control over it. Not your keys, not your coins they say. And I'm sorry for the guy's loss.

Doan9269

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Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 05:48:34 AM

A huge loss just for not paying attention to selling at the price of the day, maybe he wanted to execute the orders quickly, or he didn't know what he was doing.

So be warned, if you are going to sell, fill out your order correctly at the price you want to sell, never use the "market" price to sell a large amount of bitcoins.

Before we make any payment and perform any related buy or sell function, the system will alert us and warn of the action we are about to take, possibly remind us of the risk involved in doing that as well, some of us that are used to p2p sell and on exchanges could relate more better, we don't have to get our minds been divided when trading or making a sell or buy order, this could cause us a serious problem as to the loss of money, we need to verify and if not still sure, reverify again till we are accurately assured that we are on the same page before making any confirmation.

m2017

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Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 11:14:34 AM

The total sale was not for USD 238, the last purchase order was... the orders were executed from highest to lowest until ending at the lowest order open for purchase: 238 dollars! surreal, right? Whoever bought it was lucky enough to win the lottery.

Sorry, I'm ~~not good at Portuguese~~ don't speak Portuguese at all.

So at what price were those 1.7 BTC sold? I mean the total amount for all orders.

This is not surreal, but quite real, as you see when you leave the conclusion of your orders for large amounts unattended.

Thanks for your clarification.

Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 11:14:34 AM

We have P2P and even some better brokers, like Mercadobitcoin [1]

So it's all about the broker's dishonesty (Novadax)?

Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 11:14:34 AM

Possibly whoever made the sale doesn't know how to deal with the financial market, so I imagine that P2P for him is equivalent to an alien.

That’s why, in order to avoid falling into such unprofitable situations, first need to devote time to improving financial literacy skills.

criptoevangelista

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Quote from: m2017 on February 15, 2024, 11:00:15 AM

What problems were there for selling bitcoin with the help of exchangers, like bestchange (in Brazil they don’t know about this service?) or P2P directly? Why use cryptocurrency brokerage? To pay extra commissions?

Why sell bitcoin with one order? Why couldn't it be divided into several portions and sold in parts?

238 USD for 1.7 BTC, well, that's a ~~great~~ deal. Someone made good money from this.

The total sale was not for USD 238, the last purchase order was... the orders were executed from highest to lowest until ending at the lowest order open for purchase: 238 dollars! surreal, right? Whoever bought it was lucky enough to win the lottery.

We have P2P and even some better brokers, like Mercadobitcoin [1]

bestchange I don't know how it works, but I've seen some advertisements on our local board

Possibly whoever made the sale doesn't know how to deal with the financial market, so I imagine that P2P for him is equivalent to an alien.

[1] https://www.mercadobitcoin.com.br

m2017

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Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 05:48:34 AM

I came to bring a case that happened in Brazil, an investor wanted to get rid of his bitcoins at the Novadax cryptocurrency brokerage (I've never used it, I can't recommend it, I'm just bringing the news). The fact is that he went to sell 1.7 BTC and generated a market sell order, with the lack of liquidity his orders were executed and consumed the entire order book taking the price to practically zero. He had bitcoins sold at 238 USD.

What problems were there for selling bitcoin with the help of exchangers, like bestchange (in Brazil they don’t know about this service?) or P2P directly? Why use cryptocurrency brokerage? To pay extra commissions?

Why sell bitcoin with one order? Why couldn't it be divided into several portions and sold in parts?

238 USD for 1.7 BTC, well, that's a ~~great~~ deal. Someone made good money from this.

Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 05:48:34 AM

A huge loss just for not paying attention to selling at the price of the day, maybe he wanted to execute the orders quickly, or he didn't know what he was doing.

This is the price of being your own bank.

Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 05:48:34 AM

So be warned, if you are going to sell, fill out your order correctly at the price you want to sell, never use the "market" price to sell a large amount of bitcoins.

Attentiveness is never superfluous when interacting with any finances.

franky1

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what most likely happened is the user typed in for instance 52.000 instead of 52,000 (period instead of comma)
so it sold down all orders from $52,000 down until $238 where all 1.7btc was eaten

also by using a crap exchange that only had <2btc between 52,000 down to single figures meant there was no order wall to prevent such drop
EG better exchanges that have more the 2BTC wall at 51,800 means the order would have only fallen to 51,800

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: NotATether on February 15, 2024, 06:21:11 AM

People should sell their coins at an exchange that has a large enough liquidity and not one that lets them punch in a custom buy and sell price, if all they care about is liquidating their bitcoins. Because these user-set prices are only useful to traders. Almost nobody is going to want to sell at those prices. (The same cannot be said for buying.)

Most exchanges do a good job at hiding this discrepancy, by having buy/sell prices but just not letting the users change them.

That's what I thought. I have sold several times shares on the market and I have never had a problem, if the exchange is big enough it sells for approximately what the share price is that day, and in cryptocurrencies it is the same.

Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 06:32:41 AM

A recent problem we have here in Brazil is that President Lula's government since January 1, 2024 has decided to tax all cryptocurrency transactions by 15% when using an international broker without headquarters in Brazil and exempting transactions made in brokers that are based in national territory.

This forces people to use these brokers with little liquidity.

So, if a person is not careful, they can simply lose money in what should be a simple sale of bitcoins.

So by saving 15% you risk losing 99%, well, I'm not saying that I like Lula's law but if I lived in Brazil and even more so with this example, I would think twice. Another solution is to sell with a limit order, but in an exchange with low liquidity it can take ages to execute.

Wapfika

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Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 05:48:34 AM

Hello everyone, I hope you are well.

I came to bring a case that happened in Brazil, an investor wanted to get rid of his bitcoins at the Novadax cryptocurrency brokerage (I've never used it, I can't recommend it, I'm just bringing the news). The fact is that he went to sell 1.7 BTC and generated a market sell order, with the lack of liquidity his orders were executed and consumed the entire order book taking the price to practically zero. He had bitcoins sold at 238 USD.

This is impossible to happened on huge exchange like Binance with huge volume on order book. That’s why it’s important depth chart to determine what’s the price with highest liquidity backing it aka as support wall.

The news is really sad because the user with huge holdings is very dumb and doesn’t care to do research first before he does the market sell. I’m not familiar with the exchange either but he can file a complaint about if the exchange has a huge trading and just suddenly remove liquidity right after he does the market sell on his holdings

Abu-Naim

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Quote from: criptoevangelista on February 15, 2024, 05:48:34 AM

So be warned, if you are going to sell, fill out your order correctly at the price you want to sell, never use the "market" price to sell a large amount of bitcoins.

Order sells is always confusing if you are a newbie. It is not advisable for newbies to use order if they don’t have the knowledge about orders and how it works; the best thing to do is to use market orders just to sell immediately because if you place order and the order is not executed quickly, the price will affect it and some newbies don’t know how to cancel orders because some exchanges are very hard to use as they are not user friendly.

Apocollapse

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This is the reason why don't create a sell order using the current rate, this will be an advantage for the buyer to drop the price since the liquidity is really low.

Quote from: HelliumZ on February 15, 2024, 06:38:03 AM

Of course I use verified KYC exchanges with huge liquidity to sell bitcoins. However, I never use non-KYC exchanges. There are several precautions to be followed especially when doing Bitcoin exchanges. Of course, KYC verification must be used on such exchanges, exchanges with high liquidity should be used, and transactions with any third party should be avoided. There are several other things that must be known before trading.

Do you think Novadax didn't ask KYC?

Quote from: https://www.novadax.com/en-US/empresa/termos-de-uso

3. CADASTRO E IDENTIFICAÇÃO PESSOAL

3.1. Para utilização do SITE é necessário realizar um cadastro no SITE e enviar a documentação mencionada na POLÍTICA DE COMPLIANCE, a qual recomendamos a leitura, a fim de ter acesso aos SERVIÇOS da NOVADAX.

Non KYC exchange is actually better than KYC exchange, KYC is dangerous and useless, the problem is just the liqudity, but you don't have to worry if you're not in hurry. Just stick with trusted non KYC exchanges e.g. Bisq, Agoradesk, Robosats.

buwaytress

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Been 8 years and never made a mistake with addresses, or price, anything like that. Still double-triple check, probably a bit more than I should, but don't ever want to make a (literal) expensive mistake. Just a few weeks ago, sending to someone, they gave me a wrong address -- my insisting they double checked saved them... just not sure why you'd be leaving things to automation when doing money matters, never mind such large amounts.

Not saying I'll always be infallible but a good reminder to always just be safe. Even if it means using a more reputable exchange, and losing a bit more in a trade. Still. This was an easily avoidable error...

MusaMohamed

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Quote from: Husires on February 15, 2024, 07:10:19 AM

A platform that does not have liquidity of 1.7 BTC is a platform that should be avoided, but I wonder if it will be compensated, as some who lost their money due to technical errors were compensated, and if Novadax cares about its reputation, it may try to provide any type of compensation, especially since the amount is not large for a crypto exchange. Market sell order must be handled with caution, otherwise it may lead you to sell at a price completely different from the price you had in mind. Therefore, selling using limit order is much better, especially since you do not wait a long time if the order is close to the market price.

Novadax is a small exchange with trading volume about $1.5M last 24 hours. For Bitcoin trading pair, its total trading volume is about $420,000, not too much.

However, the loss is likely from a bad order used by the seller and maybe a technical issue on their exchange. If there is no technical issue, the seller must check buy wall and sell wall to see where is next big buy orders before initiate his sell order.

Additionally, selling must be split to some orders, not only one and of course using Limit order is safer than Market order.

Husires

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A platform that does not have liquidity of 1.7 BTC is a platform that should be avoided, but I wonder if it will be compensated, as some who lost their money due to technical errors were compensated, and if Novadax cares about its reputation, it may try to provide any type of compensation, especially since the amount is not large for a crypto exchange. Market sell order must be handled with caution, otherwise it may lead you to sell at a price completely different from the price you had in mind. Therefore, selling using limit order is much better, especially since you do not wait a long time if the order is close to the market price.

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